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ZagAddict
03-22-2007, 08:29 PM
Andy Katz is reports on Sportscenter that Kentucky has Tom Crean and Mark Few on the top of their wish list right now...

I'm starting to grow comfortable with the fact that Few will be linked with job openings at top programs every year. Two years ago it was Oregon, last year it was Indiana, and this year it is Kentucky and Oregon. The fact that Grier is interviewing for other head coaching positions gives me confidence that we will be seeing Few on the GU side next year and many years after.

sonicfan84
03-22-2007, 09:50 PM
I do not think Few would ever be that interested in the Kentucky job. Sure, it is one of the most tradition programs out there, but right now we are just out and out a better team.

Fonebone
03-22-2007, 10:23 PM
Who knows - but I recall the recent comments by Mark recently, I think in response to the WCC coach teminations, how unreasonable expectations have gotten. If he thinks that about the WCC, imagine going to a school like Kentucky !

dawgman1999
03-22-2007, 10:37 PM
GU is flat out better than Kentucky right now? Based on what?

UK went further in the tourney this year. Despite your recent 9 years run, UK still did better than you in these 9 years. Tubby had them winning at a 70+% mark year in and year out in SEC, yet their expectation is just too high. But that doesn't mean they are NOT a better national program than Gonzaga.

I don't think you are familiar with the Kentucky program. I don't think you are qualified to make a statement like that. Right now, they are in on 2 highly touted recruits: Jai Lucas, son of John Lucas II and brother of John Lucas III, and a kid named Patterson, a bruising PF from West Virginia. Both of those kids are rated higher than anyone in the GU incoming class. They only have 1 senior starter leaving this year. Although they may lose Randolph Morris to the draft, but he's as likely to return as Josh Heytvelt. The Zags talent level certain will undergo a big upgrade with Daye, Sacre and Brown coming in. But that's still not Lucas, Patterson and A.J. Stewart type talent that Kentucky will likely get.

UK is not down. 7 National championships + the all time winningest program in CBB is going to draw a lot of interests. They are just like the USC of the 90's before Pete Carroll got there. Once they find the right coach, they will be back at the top of CBB rank. The resource, the passion for CBB over there is just something you can't comprehend. They draw 23000 to the Rupp for their Midnight madness practice in October. I am not sure how you can say GU is a better program NOW. GU will NEVER be a better program than UK, even if GU went to a Final Four, or win a National Championship. USF won 2 in the 50s, but they never got back there. UK has a tradition that's been going on for decades. It will forever be one of the best programs in CBB.

CDC84
03-22-2007, 10:51 PM
If anyone turns down the UK job - I don't care who it is - it won't be because the program they are at is better than UK or has a higher upside than UK. That is...better in the sense of tradition, money, the ability to draw recruits, national appeal, etc.

However, a coach or a series of coaches might turn it down because they don't want to deal with insane expectations and overall pressure cooker that that job brings with it.

It really requires a special kind of personality....especially in the wake of Tubby leaving for Minnesota - a guy that was not liked by many UK people the moment he took over for Pitino.

Let me put it this way....there are several coaches that are qualified to take that job from an X's and O's standpoint and from a recruiting standpoint, but, who at the same time, are not qualified to deal with their media, fans and boosters. Or maybe they are qualified, but they just don't want to put on an act to deal with it.

BTW...I think some of GU's recruits, namely Daye and Sacre, could end up being better than Patterson, Lucas and Stewart in the long run. But that's another discussion and by no means a prediction. The general idea is right....it is easier to recruit at UK than GU. If Gonzaga had the recruiting power of UK, this dang place would have so many McDonald's AA's running through it that you couldn't keep track of them.

MDABE80
03-22-2007, 10:52 PM
Thanx for the lecture Dawman. lolol MFE

ZagNative
03-22-2007, 11:01 PM
From Wikipedia:


Over his 15 seasons as a head coach, Smith has had 13 twenty-win seasons, making the NCAA Tournament each of those years.[4] In 2005, he joined Roy Williams, Nolan Richardson, Denny Crum and Jim Boeheim as the only head coaches to win 365 games in 15 seasons or less. Entering the 2007 season, Smith's career record was 365-133 and his .733 winning percentage was eighth among active coaches.
Tubby may have had an off year this year, but this goes to show folks have awfully short memories. Sure hope Mark Few wouldn't put himself in a position where fans are so disloyal to a very good coach having an off year.

If he took the Kentucky position, I'd feel bad for us, but I'd feel worse for him.

dawgman1999
03-22-2007, 11:08 PM
CDC: you said it well. It's not a matter of whether the UK job is a good job. It's a great job. But whether that's the right fit for Few.

If the job is offered to Few, and he declines, then I think he will never leave GU. But it sounds like the AD in UK is going to go through a thorough search on this one. I think Few is a good X/O coach, but a different type of coach than Smith. He's been successful in GU, but to deal with the expectation, the media and the boosters in UK is an entirely different thing. If he gets the job, how long will the UK fans give him a pass? In GU, he will not have to face all those. He can pretty much coach here until he retires. It's a tough call for coach Few. But at this point, I don't know if the job will ever be offered to him. There are quite a few other outstanding candidates.

dawgman1999
03-22-2007, 11:16 PM
From Wikipedia:


Tubby may have had an off year this year, but this goes to show folks have awfully short memories. Sure hope Mark Few wouldn't put himself in a position where fans are so disloyal to a very good coach having an off year.

If he took the Kentucky position, I'd feel bad for us, but I'd feel worse for him.

I think if Few takes this job, he is going to be fine. Gonzaga will be fine under Bill Grier. But I think Few knows that if he doesn't take UK to the Final Four in 3 or 4 years, he will be another Matt Daugherty. That's just the expectation in a school like UK, Duke, or UNC.

FuManShoes
03-22-2007, 11:24 PM
http://www.790theball.com/Blog%20Pictures/ashleyjudd.jpg

youreachiteach
03-23-2007, 01:23 AM
From my contacts...Donovan, Izzo, Calapari, Crean and far behind Travis Ford(Umass) is getting a sniff. Gilepsie Texas A&M looks like a nice candiate, but his NCAA violations and DUI at Illinois dont hold well with AD Micth Barhardt.

Few, no way jose. 2 losses in a row to portland and San Diego, and you still have the GU fan base loving you forever.

2 losses in a row to Tennessee and Georgia and Few is cooked!!

Majerus wants in, but wont happen.

zagfever86
03-23-2007, 01:29 AM
From my contacts...Donovan, Izzo, Calapari, Crean and far behind Travis Ford(Umass) is getting a sniff. Gilepsie Texas A&M looks like a nice candiate, but his NCAA violations and DUI at Illinois dont hold well with AD Micth Barhardt.

Few, no way jose. 2 losses in a row to portland and San Diego, and you still have the GU fan base loving you forever.

2 losses in a row to Tennessee and Georgia and Few is cooked!!

Majerus wants in, but wont happen.

Are your "contacts" Sportcenter?

ZagDaddy
03-23-2007, 05:02 AM
I would be shocked if Few took this job. He is a smart guy and we already know from over the years that money is not his motivating factor. He is not Rick Pitino who job hopped throughout his career every time someone waved a few more bucks under his nose.

Lifestyle, quality of life and loyalty seem to be what drives him. I would fall off my chair if he were to take this job. The pressure cooker he would be agreeing to is so far removed from what he seems to be about. He may interview for it to prove that he is a valued commodity to his employer, but go to Kentucky? I don't see this happening and am not the least bit worried.

RebornZag
03-23-2007, 05:20 AM
Kentucky is a great basketball program and so is Gonzaga. Kentucky is one of the very top basketball programs in America. Gonzaga does not have the kind of history that Kentucky does. It doesn't have the arena, nor does it have the recruiting potential. But Gonzaga does have Mark Few and Kentucky does not. Gonzaga is as good as basketball program today as Kentucky is TODAY. I believe that, and statistics will bear that out.

Personally, I believe Kentucky is NOT a good fit for Mark Few, and I'd hate to see him go there. It's like Adam Morrison playing for Carolina Bobcats... There is a certain kind of culture in the South that I believe would not fit the life-style of Coach Few. I don't see Mark going there at all. He's way to smart for that...He knows what's best for himself and his family. Mark belongs In the Pacific Northwest...I think he knows that. Afterall, he's a fly fisherman.

RenoZag
03-23-2007, 05:36 AM
I hope Few stays long enough to hold all of the Zags coaching records and maybe WCC records as well.

But keep in mind that he has said "it's all about the program. No one person is bigger than the program." That comment, made at the pre-game press conference before the IU tilt, applies to coaches as well as players.

deathchina
03-23-2007, 06:34 AM
"Gonzaga is as good as basketball program today as Kentucky is TODAY. I believe that, and statistics will bear that out. "

Umm...what statistics is that?

Kentucky
2007 - 13th in the RPI (Ken Pom)
2006 - 41
2005 - 11
2004 - 2
2003 - 1
2002 - 12
2001 - 10
2000 - 4
1999 - 9


Impressive eh?

GU by comparison

2007 - 60th in the RPI
2006 - 10
2005 - 10
2004 - 9
2003- 43
2002 - 20
2001 - 75
2000 - 35
1999 - 42

Someone else can calculate the average RPI for me, but as you can see it isn't close.

former1dog
03-23-2007, 06:52 AM
Are your "contacts" Sportcenter?


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Sorry, YRIT, no offense. That just caught my funny bone. ;)

tyra
03-23-2007, 06:52 AM
By about when will UK make a decision?

http://www.theolympian.com/103/story/71989.html

Interesting story in Daily Olympian that I had not seen posted yet on UK's interest in Coach Few.

PDXZag
03-23-2007, 07:29 AM
I want Few to stay at Gonzaga as much as anyone here. But with that being said, this is the Kentucky job! It's an unbelievable opportunity for any coach. In my opinion, there are elite program jobs and then there are THE elite program jobs. There's probably only a handful of these: Indiana, UCLA, Kansas, UK, to name a few (my criteria being the longevity of the program's success, multiple NC's, even more Final 4 appearances, etc.). While programs like UK often have unrealistic expectations for their success, they also have tremendous upsides, among them being the fact that a program like Kentucky practically recruits itself.

A job like Kentucky’s is the upper echelon for a college basketball coach. It not a job for everybody, but if a college basketball coach is hyper competitive, and God knows most of these great coaches are, then he'll probably welcome the challenge of unrealistic exceptions for the opportunity to coach at the highest level of his profession. Just my 2 cents.

wazZag
03-23-2007, 07:30 AM
Kentucky's board wants Thad Matta!
:lmao: :lmao:

NJZag
03-23-2007, 07:44 AM
Not to doubt Andy Katz, but ...

The quality of his information would depend on whether MB at Kentucky is his source, or whether coaches hearing a preliminary "job pitch" from intermediaries setting up interview times (at the Final Four?) are his sources.

I sgree with ZagDaddy's edited note above in thinking that it's Donovan that would be regarded as the home run hire, at least by the fans. And it would be a name brand like that to find Kentucky actually part with the $3 million salary that is supposedly how high they'll pay for diamond quality.

Reasons?

Donovan already has a Kentucky connection.
He already coaches in the SEC and has familiarity with conference.
He already has a NC, might get another (return to Sweet 16 and next game still "on"), but already has proven himself with previous Final Fours.
He stuck with Florida long enough so he's not the kind of job-hopper that some coaches are. (Isn't this his 11th year at Florida? That's a program builder's mentality.)
Donovan's hiring of a great defensive assistant tightened up that team from being all-offense Billy Ball to a more disciplined squad and it shows he can delegate to cure what he is not skilled in coaching. It also shows that cronyism isn't what he's about in putting together a staff, and that's been the downfall of other less-successful coaches.
He fits "the image" of what Kentucky's fans probably want to see on the bench, considering how those people have never gotten over Pitino's "perfect image" making a departure for the NBA.


Donovan is at a point where a healthy ego and solid track record makes you wonder what he'll do --
stay on at Florida to make it his own Coaching Legacy (and in the comfort zone of being at a football school where a disappointing season here or there won't see fans following trails of blood in the water)?
or
in a year when his contract is up for extension (not extended yet), and the returning players from last year are going to move on at season's end this year, decide to take his place as one of a "line of coaching legacies" at already tradition-rich Kentucky?
or
if he wins a second NC, or comes close, deal with tempting offers from the NBA if his real goal is to test himself at that level?

My suspicion is that an AD like MB -- who has job security issues of his own if his hiring of coaches doesn't pan out -- is going to be working in some kind of top-down fashion. And "top" is trying to lure Donovan or get Slick Rick back on Kentucky's bench, now that Rick has embraced the notion that college coaching is his real destiny because it sure wasn't the NBA.

It's flattering that Few is getting interviewed. And he would find Kentucky an easier place to recruit to over the very long haul because it is name-brand as a program. But he's got to be sizing up what he "might" be able to achieve with what he has coming into this program, and he's got to be sizing up whether Tubby's LOIs are going to arrive to play for him (or whether they're who he wants for his system) and how much re-recruiting and/or new recruiting he has to do, and he's got to be realistic that his failure to achieve at a very high level in a short amount of time at Kentucky would find both him and the AD hiring him in a very hot seat, with some fans possibly feeling dissatisfaction at the outset because of perceptions that he hasn't proven himself at a high enough level. A big name gets benefit of the doubt, a less-proven name gets a short leash.

And, most of all, Few has got to be aware of how the SEC in general treats the coaches who don't pan out. Tubby is now faced with recruiting at a Minnesota program with far less cache than the name Kentucky, Buzz Peterson is now at obscure Coastal Carolina even as Pearl goes considerable distances with Buzz's recruits to Tennessee (leaving Buzz to wonder the coulda-beens of coaching a team when it finally arrived at a point where players were finally all "his picks"), Van Breda Kolf failed to meet goals at Vanderbilt and bounced up to tiny obscure St. Bonaventure where he had his final undoing, and Harrick faced SEC pressure at Georgia where risks were taken with everybody in the country knowing how that turned out.

BCS college coaching pressure distorts sound judgment and can lead to the risks that bring the bad ends. It's probably why the coaching salaries now have to be pegged so high, because you don't fall into a soft landing of another high-level job. You crash. Tubby's landing, in fact, is fairly soft in that he is at least landing at a BCS school.

This is not to throw cold water on the idea that the Few family budget will come to embrace the need to pay hat designers for Kentucky Derby events, or that Mark Few wouldn't do a fine job at a legendary program.

But at the level he has already reached, he's got to fully appreciate how coaching opportunities at high levels carry commensurate risks. He knows enough of the coaching fraternity that found itself on the outside looking in. And he might have a nagging sense that what he set out to do -- build a program at a small school that manages to vault to next-level success -- is still a goal that both motivates and intrigues him. A Gonzaga in the Final Four would make headlines just as George Mason did; at a Kentucky, it's par for the course if you just want to keep your job. Tubby knows that. He got Kentucky to that vaunted level once. And now he's in Minnesota at the program Dan found unworkable.

ZaggyStardust
03-23-2007, 07:49 AM
If Gonzaga had the recruiting power of UK, this dang place would have so many McDonald's AA's running through it that you couldn't keep track of them.

Alot of good multiple MCDAA's have done the Fuskies huh!!!!! :D

Birddog
03-23-2007, 08:44 AM
No matter who gets the UK job, there will no doubt be some big $$ passed out either to UK's new coach, or virtually anybody that had a viable rumored connection to the hire. Donovan, Gillespie, Pitino, Calipari, Crean, Howland,etc are all in line for some bonus $$ for staying put.

I find that rumors about Few for the job flattering, but not realistic. Actually, I think Crean might be in that class too. It takes a very special persona to fit in the UK job, and I don't see Few or Crean in that mold. Hell Tubby didn't fit, and he had better credentials when he got the job. I would suggest that any potential candidate give a phone call to any of the Suttons, Eddie, his wife Pat, sons Shawn and Scott, or any of his assistants there which include Jimmy Dykes. They'll give you an earful about the "obligations" that come with the job. It won't all be sour grapes either. they just have first hand knowledge about the expectations that UK and it's crazed fan base have. They expect a Sweet 16 every year, a Final 4 every other year, and a Nat'l Championship every 4 years. They are absolutely crazy. I'm real curious to see which ego will step up and accept the job.

Birddog

BobZag
03-23-2007, 08:47 AM
Wouldn't it be awesome if our entire frontcourt was McDonald's All-Americans? Final Four, baby!

Forget UK. Few to Duke. Coach K will be fired tomorrow.

CDC84
03-23-2007, 09:03 AM
Heck, I saw a couple of UK posters lobbying for John Wooden!

wazZag
03-23-2007, 09:06 AM
It's crazy CDC. Message boards may not mean much at all, but I think it's a microcosm of the Kentucky fanbase and their ridiculous expectations.

CDC84
03-23-2007, 09:08 AM
I find that rumors about Few for the job flattering, but not realistic. Actually, I think Crean might be in that class too. It takes a very special persona to fit in the UK job, and I don't see Few or Crean in that mold.

According to at least one analyst who knows him very well, Crean does fit that mold. Granted, it is just one person's opinion:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=190021

BruddahZagJPoe
03-23-2007, 09:16 AM
I agree that Few will be on the top of everyone's list for this year and years to come, but this is what I hope:
We keep him and the Admin and Uni continues to step up to keep him.

Sure Coach Few can go to some program that has tradition and some program with tens of thousands of students and boosters up the Wazzu. Maybe he will change Coach K to Coach F, but he is part of our Zag family and Zag Basketball History and us too.
Man it would be like John transferring out after his freshman or sophmore year.
Few and those before him have made this program that is clearly getting recognized accross the nation. We are no longer, who and where? Just look at any big basketball store -- they sell Zag stuff. For us older ones, man you could never get that stuff, including limited stuff in the bookstore.

Again, Few is making our Zag program into its tradition today and he is an integral part of it including his win record avg. that rocks and that ESPN and others post every game. Few at this rate and the Zags are making our own tradtion in the West. My Pac 10 friends don;t like when they play us, because they know we come to play. It will not be a non-conference win and boost the season wins.
Like this year, we/Few stuck to our guns and "played anyone anywhere". Sure we lost some, but we don't shirk it like some of the big programs who used to ignore us. Those years were not too long ago.

Thus, I hope Few will be like Lute Olson, who is forever an Arizona Wildcat - Few forever a Zag Bulldog.
Who knows, some day we may name the Court after him -- Few Court...:D

youreachiteach
03-23-2007, 10:22 AM
"Gonzaga is as great a program as Kentucky is today"??

Tell me you didnt really say that Reborn? lol...

dawgman1999
03-23-2007, 10:33 AM
Bobzag:

what is your take on Ernie Kent being interested in the Michigan job? I was surprised that Tubby went to Minn. I thought if he were to leave Kentucky, Michigan is the place. Michigan was good in the late 80's to early 90's. Even had a NC under their belt. And there are a lot of talent in the Detroit area. Is Michigan looking at someone who's still coaching in the tourney, namely, Kent?

The Iowa job is also open, I haven't seen a list of candidates on that job yet. But right now, it seems like the Kentucky job is what everybody is talking about. Michigan might be a wild card for all these coaching shuffle.

Is Billy Grier waiting to see what Few will do before he will make a decision on the SD and Santa Clara opening?

tyra
03-23-2007, 10:42 AM
The conversation is truly and interesting and I am learning a lot. But I find the whole "will he or won't he" to be academic. We don't know what the economic package is that Coach Few has here (all factors considered) or at least, I don't think we know. We don't know what it would be where he is going. We don't really know what Coach believes or thinks about making a lot more money with whatever tradeoffs might be involved (How did that work out for A Rod?). Etc. Etc. And it is subjective but to me, I cannot imagine trading Gonzaga where he has built a strong national reputation and establishing a program tradition that can outlive him (if he hasn't done that already) for the glamor of UK and the goal of keeping a tradition functioning at the highest level (or else). Building a tradition just seems infinitely more appealing than keeping one going.

dawgman1999
03-23-2007, 11:21 AM
tyra: I was reading some where that Mark Few made about 750K - 900K last year from his base salary + shoe deals + media appearances, etc. The UK job is rumored to be about 3M a year. Ernie Kent made about 800K at UO. And rumor is that Phil Knight and boosters will pay the next coach about 2M. Romar makes about 1.2M at UW in his contract. Howland and Olson obviously make more.

While Few is at the top of WCC pay scale, he's about at the upper - middle of the pack in Pac 10. I think that's about right in turns of where Gonzaga is as a basketball program. I would guess he will be around the 1M range next year. Going to UK could triple his salary, but qualdriple his headache. I don't know. That'd be a hard choice to make.

About the AROD contract. I think if you ask him to make a choice again between the 5 year 100M deal the M's offered or the 10 year / 252M deal the Rangers offered, he'd do the same again. After all, I don't know he's all that unhappy till he got to NY, and in his Mariners career, he never came across to me that he's a guy who will be happy to spend the rest of his career in Seattle. But he didn't sign with the Yankees in the first place. Personally, I don't fault the guy for taking that contract. I would say 99% of the people would make the same choice. What's he supposed to do? Refuse the money?

RebornZag
03-23-2007, 03:28 PM
YouReach ITeach: I guess I should have said, "just about as good." I was first looking at how many times each school has made the NCAA tournament in the last 9 years, and each school made it every year. That's a good comparrison. Next I looked at how many times each team made at least the Sweet 16 because I think that that is that Hallmark of a Very Good Program or Team. Kentucky does lead but not by much. They've done it 5 times in 9 years and GU has done it 4 times, and we were the last to do it...last year. Neither made it this year. Then I looked at how many of the last nine years did we do better then Kentucky in the Tournament, and how many of those years did they do better than us. We tied three years (pretty close there), there were two years when Gonzaga did do better than Kentucky (last year was one of them) and Kentucky did better than us 4 times in the last 9 years. So I surrender, they have done BETTER overall than Gonzaga in the last 9 years, but it's not as bad as some would think. I mean it is not a rediculous difference....And RPI to me is not the measuring stick of greatness.

Next year Gonzaga has 3 recruits in the top 100. Kentucky's highest is 138th. Looks like our FUTURE might just be better.....

youreachiteach
03-23-2007, 04:18 PM
Reborn, are you hanging out with the GU big men?lol

GU is good, UK has been down a bit but a few yrs ago they were #1 overall 2 yrs in a row, 34-2 and 33-4, plus they have a national title, plus they play in the SEC.

lets stop here lol...

sittingon50
03-23-2007, 06:20 PM
Great post NJ.

dawgman1999
03-23-2007, 06:42 PM
YouReach ITeach: I guess I should have said, "just about as good." I was first looking at how many times each school has made the NCAA tournament in the last 9 years, and each school made it every year. That's a good comparrison. Next I looked at how many times each team made at least the Sweet 16 because I think that that is that Hallmark of a Very Good Program or Team. Kentucky does lead but not by much. They've done it 5 times in 9 years and GU has done it 4 times, and we were the last to do it...last year. Neither made it this year. Then I looked at how many of the last nine years did we do better then Kentucky in the Tournament, and how many of those years did they do better than us. We tied three years (pretty close there), there were two years when Gonzaga did do better than Kentucky (last year was one of them) and Kentucky did better than us 4 times in the last 9 years. So I surrender, they have done BETTER overall than Gonzaga in the last 9 years, but it's not as bad as some would think. I mean it is not a rediculous difference....And RPI to me is not the measuring stick of greatness.

Next year Gonzaga has 3 recruits in the top 100. Kentucky's highest is 138th. Looks like our FUTURE might just be better.....

Reborn, your statement is still very ridiculous.

1. Why should you only look at the last 9 years, why not the last 5, 10, 20 years? I assume you started counting back 9 years because that's when the Zags started making their runs.

However, if you just started going back 1 more year to 1998, UK won the NC. So that NC will heavily skew the scale to UK's favor for the last 10 years. You can argue that the 98 UK championship is so far back that it has no relevance to the 08 wildcats team. But the 99 Elite 8 Zags team was also so far back that its relevance to the 08 Zags team could be questioned too. The 99 team was coached by Monson by the way, not by Few.

2. Let's say 10 years is too far back. Let's just count the last 5, or 6 years. Mark Few took the 00 and 01 team to the Sweet 16. But it could be argued that he won with Monson's players, just like it could be argued that Smith won the 98 title with Pitino's players. Let's go back 6 years, Mark Few took 1 team to the Sweet 16 in the last 6 years, despite having a #2, #3, #4 and a #6 seed during that span. So with his own players, Mark Few has under-achieved in the tourney in recent years. In the last 6 years, UK had 2 Elite 8, 1 Sweet 16 and 3 2nd round exits. Gonzaga had 1 sweet 16, 3 2nd round and 2 1st round exits. UK is still much better, or on average, 1 round better than Gonzaga. That's a huge difference.

3. I don't think I need to tell you UK is the winningest team in CBB history. But if you break down their season to season records since CBB is being played, it was filled with dominance decade after decade. A WCC school like USF can rule CBB for several years, but they generally can not sustain the level of excellence for decades. UK has done that since CBB is being played in the 1900's. Since 1955, Kentucky has only missed the tourney 4 times in the non-probation years. Since 1935, they only had 3 losing seasons. That level of sustain excellence is unmatched any where in CBB. Past history can not gurantee future performance. But year after year of excellence since the sport is being played will give comfort to any future recruits that the program will not be down for long, if they are down at all.

4. Mark Few averaged 26.5 wins in his 8 years in Gonzaga. Tubby Smith averaged 26 wins in his 10 seasons in UK. Whose record is more impressive? 26 W a year in SEC and they still run him out of town. That tells you the unrealistic expecation, and at the same time, the high level of standard that a coach CAN achieve in a school in UK. With the departure of Randolph Morris and the uncertain decisions from Patrick Patterson and Jai Lucas, next year's UK team might be one of the worst in recent memory. But with over 70 years of sustain excellence, something tells me that UK will be back, and be back big time.

A coaching change often injects new life and energy into a program. Sure, Gonzaga is having a great recruiting class, but something tells me that UK will have a great future based on their tradition and the passion of their fans. Next year, Gonzaga might be a better team, but it's certainly NOT a better program than UK. Don't even try to go there.

Here is the year over year comprehensive record of mens basketball in UK:

http://www.ukathletics.com/doc_lib/mbb_history_yearbyyear.pdf

RebornZag
03-23-2007, 09:23 PM
I have two wishes, since you'all think Kentucky is SO much better then Gonzaga.

1. That they come and play us in the Kennel. If they are so good why wouldn't they come...Do ya think they might be afraid they'd get their behinds whipped, and whipped good? Come on!! What's your answer to that? Why don't they play anybody anyplace if they're so darn good....There's only one team that I know that WILL do that. I hope we play them in the battle of Seattle next year.

2. I hope we get to play them in the NCAA tournament next year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after,or the year after.....Kentucky is going down hill by friend, and Gonzaga's going up hill....all the way to the top....

3. Oh I almost forgot one thing....that I AM certain of....Gonzaga's Program is better then the UW's!!!!! :lmao: I hope we play them in the tournament too next year or the year after or AFTER....since the chickens won't play us any more......Wouldn't that be a nice set up next year? Play the UW in the 2nd round and Kentucky in the Sweet 16 to see who IS better right now.... :D

CDC84
03-23-2007, 09:56 PM
Let's say 10 years is too far back. Let's just count the last 5, or 6 years. Mark Few took the 00 and 01 team to the Sweet 16. But it could be argued that he won with Monson's players, just like it could be argued that Smith won the 98 title with Pitino's players.

Many of us would disagree with this. Even going back to Fitz era, Few was by far and away the best and hardest working recruiter on the staff. God bless Dan Monson, but Few was the brains behind the whole operation. If he's not there, several of those kids go elsewhere. And they certainly don't play as well they did, especially on offense, without Few's guidance. Few was far more valuable to Monson than Tubby ever was to Pitino.

The UK situation was a completely different deal. Kids like Mercer, Walker, Anderson, etc., went to UK not only because of its tradition, but because Pitino was practically a rock star in the coaching profession at that point. He could snap his fingers and the kids would come. I think a large part of Tubby's success early on was due to the talent Rick left him. But as soon as the well dried up, for whatever reason, Tubby got lazy on the recruiting end. I mean, he didn't even bother to hire assistants that were top notch recruiters, despite the fact that UK could afford to.

MDABE80
03-23-2007, 10:31 PM
Just like anyone could say Roy WIlliams wouldn't have won the whole thing in 2005 if it hadn't been for Matt Doherty's recruiting. Some of it might be true. Just like Romar couldn't have gone to the Swt 16 without Bender's recruiting.

The big difference though is that Few (as says CDC) was here at GU and actually did the gathering of the players. It's different when the guy ( Few in this case) actually did the work and picked his own future kids. Then he coached em to alot of success.

Few will be stickin around. He's chosen his future with those new kids he's picked out. Few deserves all the support. He could have left and he didn't and he won't. He'd be a bit wifty to leave with a FF team within 2 years here with the Zags. A lot is made of money...big money. Isn't a million bux enough? A man can do pretty much everything he choses with that kind of money. Other things matter besides the money...family, a good enviroment, happiness and trust that he won't get knifed by some alumni who just can't figure values out.

I do disagree with some of Few's coaching moves. Overall though, I always remember I'm not a full time coach....just a guy who works on other strategies in life. Few's the coach and he seems to know his players and their limitations. It's a pretty good fit here......Abe

ZagMania
03-24-2007, 09:39 AM
This probably is nothing since its coming from the Kentucky message board, but theres a post saying that Florida has contacted Gonzaga to talk with Few, because Donovan is going to UK. The Rivals board has somebody claiming that it is all but a done deal that Donovan is the next Kentucky head coach.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=48#S=48&F=1030&T=297768

soonerterp
03-24-2007, 11:27 AM
This probably is nothing since its coming from the Kentucky message board, but theres a post saying that Florida has contacted Gonzaga to talk with Few, because Donovan is going to UK. The Rivals board has somebody claiming that it is all but a done deal that Donovan is the next Kentucky head coach.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=48#S=48&F=1030&T=297768

Wow, what's in the water down there?

First of all, at the end of the day I think you guys will hang onto Mark Few. I actually think one would START worrying about things when the other schools QUIT calling and speculating about a successful head coach. Besides, he knows he has a good thing going in Spokane and will for some time to come.

All this chatter is fun but I won't be all surprised if Kentucky does what Oklahoma did when Kelvin Sampson left for Indiana -- key in on a "stealth" candidate that absolutely nobody is speculating about and then spring it on everybody when he signs on the dotted line. When the OU HC position became vacant a year ago, I expected that OU would hire someone from a school closer to the Midwest/Southwest region of the country, but all the names bandied about in a speculative press -- and by fans -- were many of the same names being bandied about for the Kentucky job: John Calipari, Jay Wright, Tom Crean, your very own Mark Few, et. al.

At the end of the day, of course, Jeff Capel turned out to be the "stealth" candidate, and by most accounts, OU AD Joe Castiglione (no relation to the gentleman who is the voice of the Boston Red Sox) had keyed in on Capel very early in the hiring search.

I even wonder if Kentucky already *knows* who its going to hire and is just throwing out random big names to keep the message boards lit and, frankly, their name in the news because their season is over.

Birddog
03-24-2007, 11:38 AM
At the end of the day, of course, Jeff Capel turned out to be the "stealth" candidate, and by most accounts, OU AD Joe Castiglione (no relation to the gentleman who is the voice of the Boston Red Sox) had keyed in on Capel very early in the hiring search.

That may be true, but the only reason he was zero'd in on was because all the "name" candidates that had any interest (and it's questionable just how many had real interest) had humongous buy outs. Joe was on record saying that they would "pay handsomely" the problem was in the buyout clauses that schools are sticking their contracts for retention purposes. Of course that doesn't stop coaches from "job surfing" just so they can extort a raise from their present employer. Joe C and the avg Oklahoma fan had unreal expectations about the cachet of the "name" that they could attract. I think Capel will prove to be a good catch, but he was far from the top on the original list. I don't think UK will be getting a stealth candidate. It will be someone who has some pizzazz. It's fun to watch though. The machinations that the ADs and prospects go through to disinform yet stay in the news is incredible to watch. I love it when they remove their name from the candidates list, which of course means they weren't gonna get the job.



Birddog

soonerterp
03-24-2007, 01:07 PM
Emphasis mine


That may be true, but the only reason he was zero'd in on was because all the "name" candidates that had any interest (and it's questionable just how many had real interest) had humongous buy outs. Joe was on record saying that they would "pay handsomely" the problem was in the buyout clauses that schools are sticking their contracts for retention purposes. Of course that doesn't stop coaches from "job surfing" just so they can extort a raise from their present employer. Joe C and the avg Oklahoma fan had unreal expectations about the cachet of the "name" that they could attract. I think Capel will prove to be a good catch, but he was far from the top on the original list. I don't think UK will be getting a stealth candidate. It will be someone who has some pizzazz. It's fun to watch though. The machinations that the ADs and prospects go through to disinform yet stay in the news is incredible to watch. I love it when they remove their name from the candidates list, which of course means they weren't gonna get the job.

I'll give you that some OU fans have an unbelieveably inflated concept of where their program stands. I call it the "By Gawd, we're Oklahoma" thing ... that definitely works in football, where OU actually has something, for good or ill, to brag about (and unlike some, I acknowledge there's a SIGNIFICANT amount of "ill" to consider in that history); but not so much in hoops even though OU's basketball history isn't totally a wash. That said, I was laughing and rolling my eyes at the names being bandied about last year too. I mean crap, Jay Wright leaving Villanova for OU? Come on, who told you that? A leprechaun riding a pink polka-dotted elephant?

As for the machinations of ADs and whatnot, on other boards, especially at draft time and at the NBA trade deadline, I yammer a lot about smokescreens and false intelligence, and sometimes I forget that college ADs do the same thing.

Birddog
03-24-2007, 01:31 PM
Come on, who told you that? A leprechaun riding a pink polka-dotted elephant?

ST, here's your leprechaun. I couldn't find the pic of him on the elephant.

http://www.boxtalent.com/speakers_new_dtl.asp?BandID=65

Birddog

soonerterp
03-24-2007, 01:44 PM
ST, here's your leprechaun. I couldn't find the pic of him on the elephant.

http://www.boxtalent.com/speakers_new_dtl.asp?BandID=65

Birddog

Thanks for finding that. Too bad I just ate.

dawgman1999
03-24-2007, 03:55 PM
RebornZag: I am not sure why you have to prop up Gonzaga by talking down Kentucky. People just pointing out your mistakes, and I don't know why you take offensive to that. We are not Kentucky fans. We are just neutral bystanders in this.


I have two wishes, since you'all think Kentucky is SO much better then Gonzaga.

1. That they come and play us in the Kennel. If they are so good why wouldn't they come...Do ya think they might be afraid they'd get their behinds whipped, and whipped good? Come on!! What's your answer to that? Why don't they play anybody anyplace if they're so darn good....There's only one team that I know that WILL do that. I hope we play them in the battle of Seattle next year.


Look, my answer to that is why don't you have your AD contact Kentucky's AD Mitch Barnhart. I don't know UK is ducking you guys. I don't know if Gonzaga ever propose to UK to have a home-home series. Don't call them chicken when you don't know they turn down your request, or if such a request was EVER made. I am not sure yelling in the message board helps your argument.



2. I hope we get to play them in the NCAA tournament next year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after,or the year after.....Kentucky is going down hill by friend, and Gonzaga's going up hill....all the way to the top....


And your argument that UK is going down hill is? I sent you the link of the year over year performance since CBB was played. History shows that they NEVER went down hill far, maybe one or two years down at a time. But they always got back up. It's a pretty good track record. With the coaching change, they will probably go through some rough time next season or two, but they will NEVER get back? That's ridiculous. They ALWAYS get back. I understand how you feel about the Gonzaga program. It's OK to feel good about your program. But if you man enough, why don't you post this message to the Kentucky message board? Why don't you tell them why your program is going way up and theirs is going down, and support your argument with facts?



3. Oh I almost forgot one thing....that I AM certain of....Gonzaga's Program is better then the UW's!!!!! :lmao: I hope we play them in the tournament too next year or the year after or AFTER....since the chickens won't play us any more......Wouldn't that be a nice set up next year? Play the UW in the 2nd round and Kentucky in the Sweet 16 to see who IS better right now.... :D

I am not sure why UW is in this discussion? Sure, I went there and I am a fan. But I am NOT happy our AD and Romar temporary ended the series with GU. I did not agree with that. Even though you've had the upper hand in the last 9 years, but I still believe we hold the edge in the all time matches. I feel good about our program. Sure, our young players went through some growing up this year, but depending on whether Hawes is coming back, we should be strong in Pac 10 next year. I feel good about UW next year, and if Hawes comes back, I really like our chances against the Zags.