PDA

View Full Version : OT -- WCC -- contraction/expansion on table



GoZags
03-06-2009, 05:52 AM
Yesterday afteroon the KJR radio host Ian Furness was discussing a conversation he'd had the night before with an "unnamed" WCC Athletic Director. BTW, Furness came to KJR Seattle from a radio station in Portland -- and on Wednesday night I believe he'd been down at the Trailblazer game. I have no idea if the "unnamed" AD is from Portland -- I just know the "unnamed" AD is not from San Francisco -- as Furness referred to "he" rather than "she".

There currently is a huge "Strategic Planning" project going on for our conference. Part if this project is participatory by fans (optional -- here's the link http://integrityservicesgroup.com/wcc/ ).

With the recent Seattle U. vs UW game -- there'd been a lot of talk on the radio station about Seattle U joining a conference.

Furness reported that the AD he spoke with said there's a lot that's on the table. The deletion or elimination of a school or schools from the WCC is on the table. The addition of a school or schools to the WCC is on the table. The addition of a public University joining the conference is on the table. Going to a 9 member conference is on the table.... i.e. the addtion of Seattle U. IS on the table. These are very interesting times.

One things for certain -- I'm going to enjoy the WCC tourney -- particularly since all the games not on ESPN will be streamed live on www.wccsports.com.

That's pretty cool.

FuManShoes
03-06-2009, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the juicy info and the survey link. It's an interesting exercise, especially as a Zags fan who can't help but feel a bit jilted by the WCC while also wondering if GU has raised the bar above what is reasonable for most in the league to reach. Would be nice if the WCC realized nutso fans like us make this thing tick and thus reach out more, i.e., by posting or linking to boards like this. Biggest thing they could do would be improving officiating! Crappy refs harm this league more than we realize.

Baldwinzag
03-06-2009, 07:33 AM
Thanks for the link GoZags.

I hope every member on this board takes a moment to complete this survey. As Zag fans and/or alumni, we owe it to the team and our conference. Its a tremendous opportunity to have your voice heard regarding this League. I just completed the survey and it was very comprehensive and subjective on the amount of input they attempting to receive from all parties affiliated with the conference. It was a solid survey.

GoZags
03-06-2009, 07:41 AM
One other note. Yes, it's subtle -- but I'm glad the WCC chose a Gonzaga kid to do the promo (click on the video in the middle of this link).

http://wccsports.cstv.com/

It would have been very easy for them to have chosen a school in the Bay Area -- yet they chose Steven (who did GREAT on the promo, btw).

Like I posted earlier -- I'm looking forward to following the tourney (i.e. the early games) on WCCTV360. It's a great idea -- and shows just how far our conference has come under new leadership. GoZags

BobZag
03-06-2009, 10:15 AM
Thanks, GoZags.

Seattle U is inevitable and Pacific may come in with them, but there is no hurry, and logistics such as travel partners are an issue. For hoops, which is the driving force of the WCC, it's better to have even numbers such as 8 or 10.

lothar98zag
03-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Furness reported that the AD he spoke with said there's a lot that's on the table. The deletion or elimination of a school or schools from the WCC is on the table. The addition of a school or schools to the WCC is on the table. The addition of a public University joining the conference is on the table. Going to a 9 member conference is on the table.... i.e. the addtion of Seattle U. IS on the table. These are very interesting times.
interesting indeed...



GZ, thanks for the info packed post.

JoeZag
03-06-2009, 10:31 AM
I have actually been thinking about this topic lately, especially since the MWC (I work at MWC member Air Force)is considering expansion already and is looking at Boise State. We currently have nine members and are looking to get to an even number. I think it would be great to add Boise State, Gonzaga and either Montana or Portland. Boise State and Gonzaga would definitely help our hoops profile and Boise would help tremendously in football. Adding Montana would put us back at an odd number for football, but it could be worked ala the Big 10 (11 with Penn State). I think it would also help Boise and Gonzaga to belong to a bigger conference with more geographical reach and exposure. The MWC already has its own TV network and with teams from California to Texas it would help with recruiting as well. I don't think that it would ever happen, but you never know. Besides, then I could watch my Zags several times a year from Wyoming to New Mexico and Colorado!

BobZag
03-06-2009, 10:31 AM
Deletion of a school and adding a public university, I'm told no. Seattle and Pacific. Denver is an outside possibility.

Btw, if the Pac-10 ever expanded and approached Gonzaga (or vice-versa), Gonzaga would consider joining, similar to football-less Marquette in the Big East.

ZagAddict
03-06-2009, 11:27 AM
Btw, if the Pac-10 ever expanded and approached Gonzaga (or vice-versa), Gonzaga would consider joining, similar to football-less Marquette in the Big East.

:pray:

B Wayne
03-06-2009, 10:31 PM
Whats wrong with the Zags and St Marys trying to get into the Mountain West just like Notre Dame in the Big East for B ball only . I think the Mountain West take us in a minute.

Many of my astute sports fan friends y believe the Zags have under- performed better in recent NCAA tournaments because they finish the regular season against weaker WCC teams. They reason steel sharpens steel and if we had gone through a Mountain West schedule , our NCAA performance would improve.

I really can't disagree with their logic. In recent springs, when the Zags get knocked out of the dance, I get these sympathetic but imploring phone calls "Dude, you guys are good, I'm sorry you lost, your team is great, but you have to get out of that conference, it's killing you guys playing at that level before the NCAAs"

B Wayne
03-06-2009, 10:41 PM
As for the Zags joining the Pac 10 for basketball only, the PAC 10 likely would like to keep their current scheduling methodology. So the Zags would have to be paired with another team in the Northwest. The most likely candidates are Portland U and Portland State

former1dog
03-06-2009, 10:48 PM
Personally, I have no desire whatsoever for Gonzaga to leave the WCC. Its a perfect fit for our school in every way except for the last couple of years in basketball. In all the other sports, it is spot on. In compatibility with the other schools, perfect. Keep on keepin' on with the WCC.

As for the joiners, Pacific would be rejoining as I understand it and Seattle U. would be a good fit, I just hate to take the RPI hit in Basketball.

Symi81
03-07-2009, 09:32 AM
I know its not the RPI, but SU is already ranked higher in the Sagarin rankings than pretty much everyone in the WCC expect Gonzaga and maybe SMC. Check it out: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0809.htm

Point being: I'm more concerned about other schools in the WCC improving their bball programs to a national level than I am about SU dragging down the conference. Hell, SU beat LMU this year already and gave UP a tough game (and beat UP a couple years ago).

BobZag
03-07-2009, 09:33 AM
Personally, I have no desire whatsoever for Gonzaga to leave the WCC. Its a perfect fit for our school in every way except for the last couple of years in basketball. In all the other sports, it is spot on. In compatibility with the other schools, perfect. Keep on keepin' on with the WCC.

As for the joiners, Pacific would be rejoining as I understand it and Seattle U. would be a good fit, I just hate to take the RPI hit in Basketball.

Seattle beat LMU and was competive for a first-year D1 team.

Pacific was Sweet Sixteen just a couple years ago and 2nd-Round a couple years ago.

ZagLawGrad
03-07-2009, 10:08 AM
about joining the PAC-10 if that opportunity ever arose. But an expansion of the WCC is not a bad idea IF we get some teams that are capable of competing. Last thing we need is another reason for criticism of the quality of teams in the WCC.

B Wayne
03-07-2009, 11:15 AM
I think the point alot of my friends are making is that GU would perform better in the March NCAA tournament if immediately preceding the tournament, GU had a more competive conference schedule such as in the Mountain West. (steel sharpens steel). I can't see anyone arguing the accuracy of that point with a straight face. The Mountain West Conf has teams such as Utah, San Diego State, BYU, Air Force and New Mexico.

Their point has nothing to do with RPI ratings and how it effects seeding.

GoZags
03-07-2009, 12:22 PM
I think the point alot of my friends are making is that GU would perform better in the March NCAA tournament if immediately preceding the tournament, GU had a more competive conference schedule such as in the Mountain West. (steel sharpens steel). I can't see anyone arguing the accuracy of that point with a straight face. The Mountain West Conf has teams such as Utah, San Diego State, BYU, Air Force and New Mexico.

Their point has nothing to do with RPI ratings and how it effects seeding.

'99 through '01 Gonzaga joined Michigan State and Duke as the only three schools to go to back to back to back Sweet 16's (and beyond). I believe the Zags were playing in the WCC at that time (and hadn't gotten to the point of scheduling late season OOC games like Stanford and Memphis).

Seems to me that Gonzaga did just fine during that stretch --- and it's my belief that they'll do fine in the future.

B Wayne
03-07-2009, 01:59 PM
The Zags did do just fine 8-10 years ago in the NCAA tournament. I can also cherry pick more recent years where the Zags underperformed in the NCAAs. Losses to seeded Nevada and Wyoming come to mind.

Our tournament record is a not too shabby 12-10 (every team except the champion has to lose at least one game in each tournament)


So we're back to the initial proposition. A more competitive conference schedule makes a team more physically and mentally tough, resulting in a better performance in the post season.

GoZags
03-07-2009, 02:27 PM
There are years where some schools underperform, and some schools overperform. Regardless of conference affiliation.

"Cherry pick"? I see you've mentioned Wyoming. You do realize that the year the Zags lost to Wyoming -- they were the outright Champion of the #7 RPI conference in the nation -- your MWC -- and they were rewarded with an 11 seed.

The fact of the matter is the Zags won 7 NCAA games over three years, and have won 5 since. It's impossible to make the case that the WCC helped or hurt. One can speculate -- but the fact is -- schools CAN perform well in the dance regardless of their conference (see Davidson in '08).

My personal preference continues to be that other WCC members improve (a la SMC) and that the bottom half of the conference gets better. There's no reason that this conference can't be perennial Top 10 (and occassionally get to Top 7 as the WCC did a few years ago).

ZagLawGrad
03-07-2009, 02:36 PM
My personal preference continues to be that other WCC members improve (a la SMC) and that the bottom half of the conference gets better. There's no reason that this conference can't be perennial Top 10 (and occassionally get to Top 7 as the WCC did a few years ago).


Agreed 100%. Especially no good excuses for the poor performance of Pepperdine and LMU in recent years.

B Wayne
03-07-2009, 04:17 PM
There's no reason to believe history will change and the WCC will transform to a higher level.

We would see more close and interesting conference games if we played in a more competitive conference. Frankly, I differ with Greg Heister and don't enjoy watching many of these 20 and 30 point conference game blowouts (boring) And those blowouts don't do anything for the team come post season except to get a workout in. I suppose some people don't mind watching a one sided contest as long as their team wins. We are 5-7 in the NCAA since 2001, which includes one year when we were a 2 seed and two years when we were a 3 seed.

GoZags
03-07-2009, 05:34 PM
since 2001, which includes one year when we were a 2 seed and two years when we were a 3 seed.

and two years where GU didn't win the conference tourney and one year where GU won the regular season title because SCU coughed up the Championship by getting swept down in LA the last weekend of the season.

I'm glad you feel the way you do...... but you do realize your premise is hypothetical at best (or are you aware that an Invitation from the MWC for GU and SMC was issued -- or is forthcoming)?

B Wayne
03-07-2009, 06:15 PM
No I don't have any information that the MVC is interested in the Zags or vice versa. I just was chatting with some sports knowledegable friends who thought GU and St Mary's in the MVC would benefit us and thought the MVC would take us in basketball in a heartbeat.

I thought they made a good point and it would be interesting to discuss. I do like the other schools in the WCC and am not trying to put them down.

SpudDawg
03-07-2009, 09:23 PM
Contraction just doesn't seem productive or positive to me. Expansion or status quo seem more viable.

Adding Seattle U = makes a lot of sense, for a variety of reasons.

Adding Pacific = hmmm, very interesting. Hadn't even thought of that, but it's an intriguing thought. Adding Pacific's hoops program would automatically give the WCC a boost.

Bogozags
03-08-2009, 09:15 AM
First off, for the WCC to be looked upon as a more credible basketball conference, the members have to improve. The only schools to have done so in the last five years have been SMC and USD BUT the rest of the conference has not done so. It takes solid recruiting for three, four and five consecutive years and only Gonzaga has reached that level of consistency. SMC with out Mills is just a better than average team. He makes that team special and doubt if they will be as successful without him next season. Expansion teams must be able to step in and be better than at least five of the present teams we have and not sure where we would find those that just play basketball. Taking a team that plays Div 1 football into the conference would mean that their academic standards might well be lower than present WCC schools and would give them an advantage in recruiting...IMO that is...

Seattle might well be a solid team as they should be able to recruit well down the road and compete well with GU BUT you would need to pickup one more school to make traveling easier for schools coming north. Pacific is a strong academic school but they are NOT consistent and would be like another SCU BUT they are a possibility. Another school might be Portland State...

Moving from one conference to another...the PAC10 is out, they would never invite a non-football school to participate...they would be better off picking up a: SD State, Utah, BYU or Boise State. They could then have a football play-off and make millions more each year for their conference schools. Gonzaga would do NOTHING for them as a non-football school. The same would apply to the MWC, they could pick-up three other schools and become a major conference and I predict, they will be invited to join the BCS just to keep them from rocking the "BCS Championship Bowl Series."

I also don't see the WCC dropping any schools...LMU or Pepperdine or USF and picking up a Seattle or Pacific or PSU? In addition, adding two more teams would mean four less OOC games we could play...another disadvantage for GU.

Our options are limited due to our location and size of the MAC...the Atlantic 10 would be ideal but no upside for them only a down side - travel would be murderous for all concerned.

Only winning scenario I see, would be for the other schools to improve their basketball facilities, improve recruiting where each of the other school place the highest emphasis on gaining equality with GU. Don't see that happening with all these Catholic schools not having access to funds to make the "step-up in class!" Think we have to be happy with GU's status as it is and continue to play strong OOC schedules and maybe even schedule their last game after and just before the NCAA tournament i.e. SMC...great idea!

roxdoc
03-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Question: All this talk about the MWC - How do the MWC and the WAC compare?

kitzbuel
03-08-2009, 01:29 PM
WAC has a #12 Conference RPI and an average team RPI of 28 (compared to WCC's #13 and 29 avg), MWC is #7 with a 23 avg.

http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=WCC

NotoriousZ
03-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Don't think GU is going to the MWC. There's more competition there, but less media coverage. Improving the WCC is the way to go IMO. Hope we get Pacific, that would be an instant rival. Seattle U is very interesting, I could definitely see them getting better. Sounds good to me, don't dump any teams and we've got an even ten...who would want to leave?