WCC 2009: Heytvelt vs. Bryant

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  • freezer12
    Not Zag Material
    • Feb 2007
    • 126

    WCC 2009: Heytvelt vs. Bryant

    I did this analysis to squash the thought that Josh Heytvelt deserved POY honors over John Bryant, specifically because he "owned" him head-to-head. I don't expect many (or any) Zags to agree with me, but when you look at the conference stats, it's pretty clear that Big John had a better year overall and that their head-to-head matchup was essentially a wash.

    FIRST MEETING (SCU@GU, 1/15/09, GU 95 SCU 53):
    -Heytvelt: 25 min, 4-9 fg, 0-1 3fg, 3-4 ft, 11 pts, 6 reb (1 off)
    -Bryant: 27 min, 5-12 fg, 2-3 ft, 12 pts, 11 reb (4 off)

    CONCLUSION GAME 1:
    -I would say that the first match-up was basically a wash, with possibly a slight edge going to Big John. Neither were in foul trouble, yet Bryant had absolutely no help on offense. Only other person in double figures was Rahon with 14. Four other Zags had double figures with Daye leading the way with 20. Dowdell and Traz simply could not guard the kid.

    SECOND MEETING (GU@SCU, 2/26/09, GU 81 SCU 73):
    -Heytvelt: 35 min, 12-17 fg, 2-2 3fg, 3-5 ft, 29 pts, 9 reb (3 off), 2 blocks
    -Bryant: 25 min, 7-9 fg, 2-2 ft, 16 pts, 11 reb (3 off), 2 blocks

    CONCLUSIONS GAME 2:
    -If you simply look at the stats for the game, Heytvelt outplayed Bryant with 29 pts to 16 pts. However, Heytvelt played 10 more minutes than Bryant did due to early foul trouble, which leads me to...
    -Let's take a look at what Heytvelt did while Big John was on the bench with fouls. Bryant picks up foul #1 with 7:01 left in the 1st half. Not a big deal. However, with 6:29 left, Bryant picks up foul #2. In comes Dowdell, out goes Big John. For the rest of the half, Heytvelt goes for 6 pts, 1 reb, 2 stls.
    -Big John starts the 2nd half with 2 fouls and picks up foul #3 with 15:46 left. In comes Dowdell, out goes Bryant till the 11:58 mark. During this time, Heytvelt goes for 1 pt, 2 reb, 1 block.
    -Bryant doesn't pick up foul #4 for the rest of the game. So, during Bryant's time on the bench with fouls, Heytvelt went for 7 pts, 3 reb, 2 stls, 1 block. Not bad.
    -Now let's look at how Heytvelt did for the entire game while Bryant was on the bench for any reason. Heytvelt went for 10 pts, 6 reb, 2 stls, 1 block. Take out these numbers, Heytvelt's line drops to 19 pts and 3 reb. I'd hardly call that "being owned."
    -I'd also like to submit that Heytvelt is a F, while Bryant is a C. Six of Heytvelt's points came from 3 pointers, which are probably not Big John's fault.

    FINAL CONCLUSION:
    -The two games head-to-head between the two big men were a virtual wash. Who did better against the rest of the competition? Take a look at the WCC only stats below and you will see who had better numbers, thus POY award. Besides, you can't tell me that Heytvelt's "history" didn't play a part. And the fact that Bouldin might have taken a vote or two from him.

    Average Stats, WCC games only:
    Scoring
    2. Bryant 18.0 ppg
    4. Heytvelt 16.0 ppg

    Rebounding
    1. Bryant 15.1 rpg
    8. Heytvelt 6.8 rpg

    Offensive Rebounds
    1. Bryant 4.29 rpg
    10. Heytvelt 2.14 rpg

    Defensive Rebounds
    1. Bryant 10.86 rpg
    7. Heytvelt 4.64 rpg

    Field Goal %
    1. Bryant .621
    2. Heytvelt .566

    Free Throw %
    6. Bryant .747
    8. Heytvelt .743

    Blocked Shots
    1. Bryant 2.43 bpg
    10. Heytvelt 0.93 bpg

    Double-Doubles
    1. Bryant 13 (14 games total)
    t-7. Heytvelt 2

    BIG JOHN BRYANT LEADS JOSH HEYTVELT IN ALL CATEGORIES, PLACING FIRST IN THE WCC IN 6 OF THE 8 CATEGORIES LISTED
  • Das Zagger
    Bleeds GU Blue
    • Apr 2008
    • 987

    #2
    That's some might fine analysis right there (I'm sure that sounded smartalecky but I do mean it). Josh has come out on top in the one stat that matters, wins. SC is going to be a tough one come Sunday night, they will be gunning for GU (as all teams will, ask Mr. Mills about that).

    I'm looking forward to this extended weekend.

    Comment

    • lothar98zag
      PostPadder General
      • Feb 2007
      • 12370

      #3
      SCU better win on Saturday!
      .
      youtube - "The Runner"



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      • zagfan08
        Zag for Life
        • Feb 2007
        • 1825

        #4
        Josh's team went undefeated and Josh had much more talent surrounding him.

        Comment

        • marczagfan
          Bulldog Fan
          • Oct 2008
          • 56

          #5
          If we are going to look at SCU and GU head to head....you better add Mr. Boldin into that mix.

          Home against SCU.....16 pts, 5 reb, 4 ast, 2steals
          At SCU....23 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast

          I know they didn't guard each other, but there is a better argument for Boldin for POY than Heytfelt.

          If you also want to compare Heyfelt to Bryant head to head, Josh had more points on the road against SCU (29) than bryant did combined in both meetings (28).

          Bottom line is all 3 guys deserved a chance at player of the year, bryant had better overall numbers, but the zags were 14-0. You put Josh or Matt on SCU and they could put up big numbers as well. I am sure Big John would gladly give up POY to play with the zags and a shot at a deep run in March or to take SCU to the tourney. The fact that we can even discuss that 2 zags were in consideration for POY is a great thing!

          Comment

          • tobizag
            Zag for Life
            • Feb 2007
            • 1199

            #6
            Originally posted by marczagfan View Post
            If we are going to look at SCU and GU head to head....you better add Mr. Boldin into that mix.

            Home against SCU.....16 pts, 5 reb, 4 ast, 2steals
            At SCU....23 pts, 7 reb, 2 ast

            I know they didn't guard each other, but there is a better argument for Boldin for POY than Heytfelt.

            If you also want to compare Heyfelt to Bryant head to head, Josh had more points on the road against SCU (29) than bryant did combined in both meetings (28).

            Bottom line is all 3 guys deserved a chance at player of the year, bryant had better overall numbers, but the zags were 14-0. You put Josh or Matt on SCU and they could put up big numbers as well. I am sure Big John would gladly give up POY to play with the zags and a shot at a deep run in March or to take SCU to the tourney. The fact that we can even discuss that 2 zags were in consideration for POY is a great thing!
            sigpic

            GU Class of '07

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            • theirishzag03
              Kennel Club
              • Jan 2009
              • 352

              #7
              Fair is fair

              Spreading the wealth...

              Zags...Heytvelt -15.2ppg, MB-13.8, AD-12.6, JP-9.6, SG-9.2, and MD-8.8

              Broncs..Bryant-18.0ppg, Foster-14.5, Rahon-11.2, Trasolini-6.4, Petty-6.0, Santos-3.4, White-3.4

              Just to compare the talent around them. Bryant 31.0 mpg, and 11.4 shots/game

              Josh 28.8 mpg and 10.2 shots per game. They are very close statistically, so I believe you have to go with who's team had the better record. If SC was a close 2nd in the league, sure, I could see it. But it is a LOT easier to be the best player on the (7-7) 4th place team than the head and shoulders best player on a (14-0) conference champ.

              If it was all about stats and not about leading the best team in the league, explain how Pargo won it last year?


              "Life is GRAND....Divorce about 100 Grand!!!"
              "Shin= A device for finding furniture" Woody Paige

              Comment

              • patentram
                Redshirt
                • Mar 2009
                • 1

                #8
                Denied when it matters least

                No MVP, No COY; No Problem, No losses in conference.

                Let the folks who's season is over after this coming Tuesday have their individual honors and if it makes them feel better about themselves, great!

                The Zags are focused on winning championships, they have one already and they are looking for two more.

                Comment

                • GoZags
                  Super Moderator
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 5631

                  #9
                  Originally posted by theirishzag03 View Post

                  If it was all about stats and not about leading the best team in the league, explain how Pargo won it last year?
                  I'm still wondering how Sean Dennisson won it (along with Derek) in '07. I don't have a problem w/ Bryant (he was my pick several weeks ago -- and then again late last week as I thought there'd be some vote splitting) as much as the COY -- who may have been "CO the 1st half of the season" when he had his guys playing for a tie for the league lead in the 8th game of the conference season. However, his guys went 3-4 the 2nd half of the WCC season, including getting swept the last weekend of the season.

                  A nice job? Yes. COY? Not in my opinion.
                  sigpic
                  “To be continued …”. Fr Tony Lehman, SJ
                  ——-
                  List of All Americans (1st Team Top 5) and Academic All Americans (1st Team Top 5) in the same season since '00:
                  Shane Battier, Dan Dickau, Omeka Okafor, DJ Augustin, Kelly Olynyk, Nigel Williams-Goss, Corey Kispert.

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                  • sharpzag
                    Kennel Club Material
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 107

                    #10
                    These MVP arguments really come down to the same question all MVP arguments come down to.

                    Should MVP go to the best player on the best team? Or the player with the best stats. GU went 14-0 in conference. Without Josh Heytvelt, GU would have had no post presence whatsoever. Josh could easily score 20ppg in conference, but he instead chose to buy into the team concept and spread the wealth. Without Josh, GU would have struggled this year.

                    I think the WCC is just trying to get national recognition by making others aware that teams besides Gonzaga have good players/coaches.

                    Comment

                    • jpwils
                      Professional Zag Fan
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 506

                      #11
                      Dude-Heytvelt

                      Sorry to disagree with the John Bryant POY in WCC contingent but if Bryant was so awesome, why didn't they beat St Mary's at St Mary's???

                      Also even after Patty mills went down, Bryant didn't dominate the top 2 teams-SMC or Gonzaga. The above poster makes the point that Bryant is a true center and Josh is a power forward, which i actually agree with.
                      Therefore WHY didn't Bryant dominate a power forward ... he clearly was a bigger person in size but couldn't even dominate a guy who is more ideally suited to play the 4???

                      That is exactly why Heytvelt deserves POY more than Bryant.

                      Comment

                      • webspinnre
                        Zag for Life
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 4852

                        #12
                        I'm a believer that player of the year goes to the person who played the best, i.e. best stats. In that case, it goes to Bryant, with Bouldin being a close second. I've got no problem with the conference awards. As long as we win the regular season and conference tourney, does anything else really matter?
                        I will thank God for the day and the moment I have. - Jimmy V

                        Comment

                        • Angelo Roncalli
                          Bleeds Bulldog Blue
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 4853

                          #13
                          I've got no huge problem with Bryant being POY. Good cases can be made for both Bouldin and Heytvelt.

                          COY is another story. The measure of a team and its coach in conference play is how well the team does on the road. Any team can win at home, it's road games that separate the men from the boys. Portland had a great home record, but the only conference road games the Pilots won were against the three WCC cellar dwellers...LMU, Pepperdine and USF. Portland lost on the road to GU, SCU, USD and SMC. In the last weekend of the season, Portland dropped from 2nd to 3rd place in the WCC standings and earned an extra game at the WCC tournament. Reveno, for all the tremendous improvement he worked with the Pilots this year, couldn't get his team over the hump in road games against the good teams in the conference.
                          You have to love the Gonzaga fan. Not satisfied to be affronted merely by common hosings at the hands of ragtag referees, he plows all avenues of discontent. - John Blanchette

                          Gonzaga University...Home of the Zags...The Bulldogs. If you pronounce it "Gone Zaw Ga," they'll know you're not from here and they may charge you more for your coffee. - Garrison Keillor

                          Comment

                          • StocktonIsMyHero
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 89

                            #14
                            Fair enough points re: the COY debate, but really... Few has won it so many times... don't you think maybe the other WCC coaches thought it was great that Portland - who, lets be honest, no one expected anything from - had its first winning record in who knows how long and was right up there in the WCC all season long?

                            I mean... I don't know, does no one really think having Portland (Portland!) finish third with the lack of talent they have was maybe more difficult than steering a Zag ship that was at one point ranked Top 5 and didn't have to deal with Pat Mills or Brandon Johnson? I don't know, I mean... 14-0 is 14-0, but he HAS won it 7 out of the last 8 years.

                            I have no problem with the WCC coaches honoring a guy in Reveno who built up a program that hasn't really ever been anything.

                            Comment

                            • lothar98zag
                              PostPadder General
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 12370

                              #15
                              this has been posted before, but in case anyone is still curious, here are the rules on voting for the conference awards:


                              see pages 54 & 55 (18 & 19 of 69)
                              .
                              youtube - "The Runner"



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