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View Full Version : The CDC take: observations from a fan behind the basket



CDC84
02-27-2009, 10:39 AM
I was at the Gonzaga/SCU game last evening. A few observations:

1) I am one of many fans who absolutely dislike the way officials handle the charging call these days. My usual complaint is that there is too much flopping because officials call too many charges which aren't player control fouls. However, the Parlow/Haddad/Bannowsky crew last night apparently decided before the game that the charging call was no longer in the rule book. Like in every game, there was some flopping going on, but there were also numerous player control fouls that were missed, and frankly, several of them involved Bryant barreling into Heytvelt while making low post moves. But it wasn't just this matchup. There were illegal screens, too much reaching in, etc. I suppose I can't gripe too much because the Zags shot 19 more foul shots than the Broncos, but I cannot recall a game this season where Few and his staff spent more time barking at the refs. Every single timeout you could see either Few, RayG and especially Rice giving the officials an earful.

2) Despite the fact that it was a world wrestling match at times, the Bryant/Heytvelt matchup was a real treat. Both guys were on their game, and it was one of the rare games in college basketball these days where you got to see two really good 5 men battle it out in the low post.

3) SCU's Kevin Foster may have not played a good game up in Spokane, but he was very good last night. What I like about the kid is not only his shooting stroke, but the way he moves without the basketball and attacks the defense. He's also a solid on ball defender. Foster played all 40 minutes as a freshman in a big game last night while battling some of the best guards on any one team in the country. It seemed like he had a different defender on him each time down the floor. It is a complete, utter mystery to me why he isn't playing at a Big 12 school, but Keating is a master at picking off under the radar guys. Foster also lit up St. Mary's for 31 and 26, and put 21 on Arizona....he likes facing good competition.

4) The most disappointing aspect of Steven Gray's play of late has not been his offense, but his defense. Frankly, his defense stunk last night. He was routinely beaten off the bounce by James Rahon, who doesn't possess a quick first step and who isn't very physical. Gray allowed him to get into the paint on a regular basis, which is a big no no because Rahon is very creative when it comes to getting shots off around the basket. It's fortunate that he missed some bunnies...he could've easily scored more than 16.

5) I didn't see which Zag the water bottle bounced off of, but Few said this is what happened. Its likely what led to a technical being called as opposed to the officials issuing a warning. The second technical was actually for a fan throwing a bottle top on to the floor.

6) Daye and Heytvelt got away with a couple of blatant offensive interference calls last night. Keating was very lucky he didn't land a T for his behavior after one of those blown calls.

7) Pargo had 5 assists and no turnovers last night. Nice.

8) Even though Josh has come on of late, I still think Bouldin is going to win the WCC POY outright. He scored 23 points last night on 4-8 shooting. He also went 13-15 from the charity stripe.

9) Gonzaga allowed SCU to shoot 46.8% from the field last night, which is the highest shooting percentage they've allowed this season. The Zags allowed PSU to shoot 45.9% from the field. It wasn't a good defensive effort from the Zags.

10) Except for a couple of knuckleheads who threw things on to the floor, the SCU fans were fantastic last night. That place was loud and crazy. And it wasn't just the students either....I saw a lot of guys in their 60's who looked like they wanted to join the Ruff Riders.

Angelo Roncalli
02-27-2009, 10:56 AM
Foster and Rahon are going to be a handful in the future.

former1dog
02-27-2009, 11:02 AM
Foster and Rahon are going to be a handful in the future.

I was really impressed with Rahon in particular.

bigparb
02-27-2009, 12:44 PM
4) The most disappointing aspect of Steven Gray's play of late has not been his offense, but his defense. Frankly, his defense stunk last night. He was routinely beaten off the bounce by James Rahon, who doesn't possess a quick first step and who isn't very physical. Gray allowed him to get into the paint on a regular basis, which is a big no no because Rahon is very creative when it comes to getting shots off around the basket. It's fortunate that he missed some bunnies...he could've easily scored more than 16.


careful CDC (see my Steven Gray where are you post), you need to check your attitude about Steven....just be happy with what we're getting from him...after all, he's just a little bitty soph.....you're disappointed?? what, you actually think so much of his game to have the audacity of high hopes/expectations for him?? Be careful....

freezer12
02-27-2009, 02:05 PM
Foster and Rahon are going to be a handful in the future.

Next year's recruits are supposed to be even better. We should be a serious factor in 2 years.

BobZag
02-27-2009, 02:12 PM
Foster, Rahon and Trasolini are a solid core of frosh. The former has a big-time (potential) look about him. I was impressed January 15th and I'm impressed now. Foster is quite easily newcomer of the year.

freezer, who all does Keating have coming in next year?

zagzilla
02-27-2009, 02:15 PM
3 really bad flops last night (2 by josh, 1 by SCU) glad they weren't called.

MDABE80
02-27-2009, 04:01 PM
CDC's always on the money. Smart and knows the stuff. Few knows it too...bet he pulls his hair outroutinely. What the hell has happen to Steven??? Girlfriends??? He's just not the same kid. Love the boy but he has to engage himself. He's so huge to our future. If he does a "Zack" I'm going go to ballistic.

GonzagaGurl08
02-27-2009, 06:48 PM
Nice post CDC!!# I agree with you 100%.# I was at the game too, and in terms of officiating, the two halfs were completely different.# They called no contact fouls in the 1st half, and in the 2nd half they called all of them.# Pictures from last night to come.

vandalzag
02-27-2009, 07:03 PM
CDC's always on the money. Smart and knows the stuff. Few knows it too...bet he pulls his hair outroutinely. What the hell has happen to Steven??? Girlfriends??? He's just not the same kid. Love the boy but he has to engage himself. He's so huge to our future. If he does a "Zack" I'm going go to ballistic.

What exactly is a Zack? Graduate in 4 years with a top shelf degree, enjoying a playing career in Europe. Jeez hope that does not happen.

VinnyZag
02-27-2009, 07:15 PM
Maybe being benched has shaken Gray's confidence.

snebzag
02-27-2009, 07:20 PM
Some thoughts.

A "Zach" I remember being so pumped for ZG's senior year. He did seem to fade like red paint in the Arizona sun that year, but had a good career as a ZAG.

The offensive interference calls. First one was clean by JH on the replay. Clearly off the rim. The second was lost in replay by engineers and unclear by the talking heads too busy looking in the mirror at their suits.

Flops? Josh gets some, misses some. Depends on the crew. Take what you can get.

How does one get good seats like that in Santa Clara? I hope you wore some nice gear in representation of a GREAT program.

CDC84
02-27-2009, 10:16 PM
I just finished watching the game on TV.

The Zags got away with one offensive interference call. The other one was a good call, although very close.

Heytvelt definitely flopped a few times, but there were two plays that were blatant player control fouls....especially one in the 2nd half when Bryant fell to the floor and mildly sprained his ankle. He put his shoulder right into Josh as he was making his move.

I was wrong about the bottle cap...it was indeed a hot dog wrapper. My seat was far away from where those 2 incidents took place.

JLGutrocks
02-27-2009, 10:20 PM
CDC, you're the only poster I am compelled to read every post by. Thanks for your insight and I feel your pain about the officiating. What a Jeckle and Hyde appearance.

Kudos to SC. Good game.
\
I do not like Keating.

freezer12
02-28-2009, 04:49 AM
freezer, who all does Keating have coming in next year?

Niyi Harrison - 6'7", PF from Bellarmine (San Jose), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 89 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=54251&season=2009)
Committed before he even played a varsity HS game.

Robert Smith - 6', PG from Perris HS (CA), ESPN Scout, Inc grade: 86 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=53895&season=2009)
Also considered: Cal, Nebraska, USC, Pepp, GU

Raymond Cowels - 6'4", SG from Hopkins HS (MN - same as Mitch Henke), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 83 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=55283&season=2009)
Also considered: Iowa, Northwestern, Loyola-Chicago, Wisconsin-GB

Chris Cunningham - 6'7", C from Diamond Ranch HS (CA), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 82 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=43230&season=2009)
Also considered: Riverside, Stanford, UW, Pepp
______________________________________
I saw Niyi play at the adidas Take 5 Classic in Cincy this summer. He's a typical wing: penetrates well and can hit from outside. Smith is supposed to be the PG of the future. He's also a great on-ball defender. Cowels is supposed to be a sharp shooter. Cunningham is rumored to have grown to 6'10".

applezag
02-28-2009, 06:19 AM
Heytvelt definitely flopped a few times, but there were two plays that were blatant player control fouls....especially one in the 2nd half when Bryant fell to the floor and mildly sprained his ankle. He put his shoulder right into Josh as he was making his move.

This game was a good example of why I pretty much never complain about players flopping: if players don't flop, offensive fouls are not called. There were plays where Bryant just bulled his way to the hoop and Heytvelt would just gradually give up ground. This, by the definition of the rule, should be a charge. Refs hardly ever call it. However, if the player falls on his back, they might get the call. Refs invite flopping by not calling offensive players who shoulder into guys repeatedly. Sure, I don't like to see blatant acting jobs where guys are brushed and fly back (which Heytvelt will do from time to time), but I won't blame the players as much as the officials for this.

kitzbuel
02-28-2009, 06:36 AM
Has anyone looked at the play where Bryant went down? I could not see on the replays what he stepped on that caused his ankle to turn.

rennis
02-28-2009, 07:46 AM
I just finished watching the game on TV.

The Zags got away with one offensive interference call. The other one was a good call, although very close.




I was going to correct your original post until I saw this.

and I agree 100%, the first no-call was right. And a fantastic putback by Josh.

gamagin
02-28-2009, 08:21 AM
Has anyone looked at the play where Bryant went down? I could not see on the replays what he stepped on that caused his ankle to turn.

he rolled it. came down on himself in some awkward way and it gave momentarily.

ZagManFan
02-28-2009, 08:40 AM
Niyi Harrison - 6'7", PF from Bellarmine (San Jose), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 89 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=54251&season=2009)
Committed before he even played a varsity HS game.

Robert Smith - 6', PG from Perris HS (CA), ESPN Scout, Inc grade: 86 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=53895&season=2009)
Also considered: Cal, Nebraska, USC, Pepp, GU

Raymond Cowels - 6'4", SG from Hopkins HS (MN - same as Mitch Henke), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 83 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=55283&season=2009)
Also considered: Iowa, Northwestern, Loyola-Chicago, Wisconsin-GB

Chris Cunningham - 6'7", C from Diamond Ranch HS (CA), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 82 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=43230&season=2009)
Also considered: Riverside, Stanford, UW, Pepp
______________________________________
I saw Niyi play at the adidas Take 5 Classic in Cincy this summer. He's a typical wing: penetrates well and can hit from outside. Smith is supposed to be the PG of the future. He's also a great on-ball defender. Cowels is supposed to be a sharp shooter. Cunningham is rumored to have grown to 6'10".

A lot of people talk about St. Marys and the upswing they are one, but this league is getting a ton of talent in it across the board in the years to come. SCU will be tough in the coming years along with Portland, San Diego and St. Marys who all could provide difficult challenges to GU and their reign atop the WCC.

That class coming in for SCU is one of the best I have seen from a non GU team in the WCC. It will be fun to watch!!

sittingon50
02-28-2009, 09:12 AM
what was the call? I assumed it was a travel until SCU inbounded after the break.

BobZag
02-28-2009, 09:19 AM
A lot of people talk about St. Marys and the upswing they are one, but this league is getting a ton of talent in it across the board in the years to come. SCU will be tough in the coming years along with Portland, San Diego and St. Marys who all could provide difficult challenges to GU and their reign atop the WCC.

That class coming in for SCU is one of the best I have seen from a non GU team in the WCC. It will be fun to watch!!

Add LMU to that list. Some nice talent coming in for the Lions as well.

Nevtelen
02-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Niyi Harrison - 6'7", PF from Bellarmine (San Jose), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 89 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=54251&season=2009)
Committed before he even played a varsity HS game.

Robert Smith - 6', PG from Perris HS (CA), ESPN Scout, Inc grade: 86 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=53895&season=2009)
Also considered: Cal, Nebraska, USC, Pepp, GU

Raymond Cowels - 6'4", SG from Hopkins HS (MN - same as Mitch Henke), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 83 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=55283&season=2009)
Also considered: Iowa, Northwestern, Loyola-Chicago, Wisconsin-GB

Chris Cunningham - 6'7", C from Diamond Ranch HS (CA), ESPN Scouts, Inc grade: 82 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=43230&season=2009)
Also considered: Riverside, Stanford, UW, Pepp
______________________________________
I saw Niyi play at the adidas Take 5 Classic in Cincy this summer. He's a typical wing: penetrates well and can hit from outside. Smith is supposed to be the PG of the future. He's also a great on-ball defender. Cowels is supposed to be a sharp shooter. Cunningham is rumored to have grown to 6'10".

Keating has an amazing eye for talent, that's for sure. He and the Zags coaching staff have the best eyes for diamonds in the rough and late-bloomers I have ever seen in college bb.

CDC84
02-28-2009, 12:33 PM
Sure, I don't like to see blatant acting jobs where guys are brushed and fly back (which Heytvelt will do from time to time), but I won't blame the players as much as the officials for this.

If I were a player, and I knew how officials are calling the player control foul these days, I would become a Hollywood Actor too. And a very good one. It's irritating to watch at times as a fan, but it's a very smart thing to do if you're a player. Especially the guys who plant themselves underneath the basket in an attempt to bail out their teammates for playing horrible perimeter defense. If you're a little guard and you have a guy coming at you who beat the first line of defense and who is ready to put in a layup right at the hoop, why not stick your chest out like an actor? The guy is going to make the layup no matter what you do - there's a chance the referee could bail your team out.

freezer12
02-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Keating has an amazing eye for talent, that's for sure. He and the Zags coaching staff have the best eyes for diamonds in the rough and late-bloomers I have ever seen in college bb.

Nevtelen, you're right about the eye for talent. He saw Darren Collison when his one and only scholly offer was to SDSU. Howland than went to see him play and offered him a ride on the spot. Three Final Fours later...

Trust me, I'm excited for the future. Just have to work on that patience.

CDC84
02-28-2009, 05:39 PM
Russell Westbrook was even less recruited than Collison. He went on to become the #4 pick in the draft. He was another Keating find. And he was really only added because Jordan Farmar bailed for the draft and UCLA had to get a last minute replacement.

Birddog
02-28-2009, 07:25 PM
Russell Westbrook was even less recruited than Collison. He went on to become the #4 pick in the draft.
And he's proving he deserved it. He's gonna be a helluva player.

ZagsGoZags
02-28-2009, 09:56 PM
CD84 you're right
and remember the move Errol Knight would put on offensive bang guys?
I wish more players would scoot away just when the offensive man comes banging his butt into the defender

Sometimes they would just fall down backwards

Maybe its something only Errol could regularly do

GonzagaGurl08
03-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Here are those pictures that I promised!! Sorry for the delay. http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/MeghanBarrett/GU%20at%20SCU%2009/