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View Full Version : Sacre will play..............IMO



Zagsker
02-27-2009, 09:27 AM
I think last nights game was the deciding factor on if Sacre will play

We NEED him...although Heyvelt more than held his own...we need a big bruiser down low to grab boards and sub for Heytvelt (althoguh Ira does well)...but we lack toughness (not mental but physical)

And with the subing for Josh part......it would also be nice to put him at the 4...Imagine this lineup in your 2-3 zone

Pargo
Downs
Daye
Heytvelt
Sacre

from Downs to Sacre...we have guys with 7' + reaches on the perimeter:)

madness
02-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Is Ira hurt?

Few essentially played 7 guys last night and then questioned the team defense. I would question the substitution pattern (unless Will/IRA are hurt). Unless the coaching staff is trying to get everyone's cardio up, why not use the bench more?

I for one would love to use Sacre this year. If he can go, the team needs him badly.

BobZag
02-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Ira! is hobbled a bit. His achilles is sore.

malmer7
02-27-2009, 10:36 AM
sacre was a great cheerleader last night, and several times i saw him stomping his feet on the ground in excitement - IMO he could play, but we don't know how things are looking behind the scenes... maybe he's lost a step and needs to wait until next year to fully recover, or maybe they/he think his confidence won't be there coming into the season so late - i'm still voting for the readshirt, but i won't jump off a bridge if he plays

hooter73
02-27-2009, 10:36 AM
terrible idea imo. He hasnt played a game in months, hasnt even ran until this last week if I remember hearing right. Yes it'd be nice to have him IF he had have been getting minutes throughout the season. Changing up your team to a new set of guys at the last minute isnt great. Yes Im sure there will be minutes, instances and opponents when Sacre would be VERY useful to have but burning a whole year for a few minutes in one or two games is a heck of a choice that would have to be made. Its still a deep bench nomatter what we think about Ira and Will. They have defence and fouls to give which make them able to give Josh a break for at least a minute or two.

Vanzagger
02-27-2009, 04:58 PM
thought Polling plays basketball very well. Sally and Rodman were skinny. It didn't stop the Pissers from winning world championships.

To me there are two choices:

A) Risk Rob's health

B) Pull the shirt

ZagAddict
02-27-2009, 07:34 PM
Sacre is NOT the missing piece to the puzzle for success in the post season... just like Heytvelt wasn't the post-season savior for the Zags in '06 or '08 (coming back from injury). Heytvelt even had more time to get into playing shape/rythm before March.

Like it or not, Few is going to have to ride the following as far as he can into March:

Pargo
Bouldin
Downs
Daye
Heytvelt
Gray
Goodson

It appears this is the tightened rotation moving into March. A Sacre, in good basketball shape and rythm, would definitely help strengthen some of the Zag weaknesses, but it not fair to put that kind of weight on his shoulders when he hasn't played since early December.

It's up to the Seniors... NOT Sacre.

Go Zags!

theirishzag03
02-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Sacre is NOT the missing piece to the puzzle for success in the post season... just like Heytvelt wasn't the post-season savior for the Zags in '06 or '08 (coming back from injury). Heytvelt even had more time to get into playing shape/rythm before March.

Like it or not, Few is going to have to ride the following as far as he can into March:

Pargo
Bouldin
Downs
Daye
Heytvelt
Gray
Goodson

It appears this is the tightened rotation moving into March. A Sacre, in good basketball shape and rythm, would definitely help strengthen some of the Zag weaknesses, but it not fair to put that kind of weight on his shoulders when he hasn't played since early December.

It's up to the Seniors... NOT Sacre.

Go Zags!

Ira will still be getting 8-12 minutes, Foster will remain situational. Ira is still bothered by the ankle and it is important to him to be ready for Senior day and USC Upstate. He just put Ira in last night for a minute to bang on Big John. I think he is going to do some special things next week! ---Pargo to Ira for the 2-handed throw down!!! Heister, "What can Brown do for you?" Oh my goodness!!! The rim is STILL shaking. Limited if any PT vs. Loyola and the extra 3-4 days rest will do him good!

MontanaZag
02-28-2009, 04:06 AM
For the minutes that we would need him he wouldn't need to be in great game shape. Spot rest for Josh with a legitimate big would be a HUGE asset for this team come tournament time. The difference between bringing in Ira or Will to play in the post versus bringing in Sacre is immense! Remember the Uconn game? maybe the game our team looked the most legit it has all year? Play the big man, carpe diem!

GonzagaLove
02-28-2009, 08:38 AM
and burn it now! If he is 100%.

HillBillyZag
02-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Ain't gonna happen. The limited benefit GU would gain by playing Rob would not be worth losing him for another whole season.

BCZag
02-28-2009, 10:10 AM
I hope he plays. If Rob is healthy enough to go I think we need his minutes, toughness, and the added looks he can give on both the defensive and offensive end. I don't know much about basketball (canadian hockey guy) but I saw the zags look "tough" early in the season with him in the line-up. Without Sacre they are certainly hit or miss against physical tournament teams (Connecticut/Memphis). The team talent level/experience is so good this year that I would hate to see the Zags miss out on a long run because they lack a physical presence.
I guess when I honestly consider it, if I were filling out my bracket and Rob's playing, I pencil in Final Four. Without him Sweet Sixteen at best.
Oh hell, either way I'll pick'em to win I always do...

GonzagaLove
02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
Making it to the NCAA Tournament should not be taken for granted. Who knows, Rob may never have this chance again. It is unlikely, but very possible. See Georgetown and Notre Dame.

theirishzag03
02-28-2009, 04:22 PM
I didn't get to watch the 1st half, BUT Sacre is showing up in the stats with a rebound.

Did he actually get in and play??? I thought Few said he would NOT play this road trip?

MyZags
02-28-2009, 05:14 PM
Whoa! You are correct about the line- 1 rebound. I missed the 1st half as well. Interesting to see if this is in error or how he played in the return.

mez124
02-28-2009, 06:57 PM
he must be good if hes getting boards in street clothes... he can play on my team anytime

Zagsker
02-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Making it to the NCAA Tournament should not be taken for granted. Who knows, Rob may never have this chance again. It is unlikely, but very possible. See Georgetown and Notre Dame.

Exactly

ZagNut08
02-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Ain't gonna happen. The limited benefit GU would gain by playing Rob would not be worth losing him for another whole season.

Have to agree with you. If we had him for a few more games, I would be willing...but realistically, he isn't in game shape, and won't be fluid enough to make a solid contribution...don't waste the year at this point

MDABE80
02-28-2009, 10:24 PM
He's working out now. I don't think anyone wants him to blow a full year for 1 or 2 games. I hope he gets in good shape. Let's see how it goes....

GonzagaLove
02-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Abe, I am thinking 7 or 8 games.

GeorgiaZagFan
02-28-2009, 10:44 PM
...If Sacre was to suit up but NOT play in the game...would he still be okay for a medical red shirt? I'm thinking of a scenario where we are in the NCAA tourney and either foul trouble, injuries, or matchup problems might make it practical to use him.
You never know about next year.....it's nice to believe that the Zags will be back in this position again.....but the reality is that there will come a time when GU does not make the NCAA tournament. I'm not predicting that but a few bad plays here, a couple of injuries there, and we may be on the outside looking in!!! and it could be as early as next year.

montanazag88
03-01-2009, 08:01 AM
"Making it to the NCAA should not be taken for granted." That is absolutely correct. IMO, that is why we should never burn a red shirt for a guy who has had no experience since the beginning of the season - if he was to suit up, he'd have two games in the WCC to get in the flow. The existing players are "just now" starting to play as a team and asking them to adjust to a player who at best had (for a few games) an equal to slightly better presence in the paint as a 7'5" Will Foster (who has done very little wrong and a whole lot right in both the WCC and against some out of conference teams) is an excercise in futility. Rob is a developing talent. Be carefull of what the media has made of Rob due to his absence and where he is in his development - one effort during one game makes not a savior of this team. He will be ready next year, but will not want to get in the way of his team's late-year development. If you are a senior and this guy comes in and turns the ball over every other posession, fouls out, can't keep up with his man or offer adequate help on defense because he's just too out of touch, you are wondering why you chose Mark Few and Gonzaga. Rob will be great, but putting him in is too big of a risk, unless he is playing like Shaq in practice and we have all been deceived.

Bogozags
03-01-2009, 09:22 AM
For the minutes that we would need him he wouldn't need to be in great game shape. Spot rest for Josh with a legitimate big would be a HUGE asset for this team come tournament time. The difference between bringing in Ira or Will to play in the post versus bringing in Sacre is immense! Remember the Uconn game? maybe the game our team looked the most legit it has all year? Play the big man, carpe diem!


He is not in game shape and would not be able to provide significant minutes or offensive productivity. He has three years remaining, "IF" he doesn't play this year and if you use him for just three possibly four games then you lose a complete season of eligibility. He will play all four years as I don't think he will leave after his third year of eligibility. So he will be a solid contributor through the 2011-12 season. He will be stronger, smarter and more "sure footed" on the block AND a menace in the paint his final year! IMO

bigblahla
03-01-2009, 09:56 AM
Barring further injuries I believe Robert Sacre will be the main driving force behind GU's first National Championship run.

Goodson,Gray, Arop, Kong, Dower, Gibbs, Poling, Harris along side Rob it just gives me goose bumps thinkin about it. Add in the fact that Austin just might turn out to be a 4 year player and the 2010-2011 Zags are going to be deeper than this years team both on talent and experience in the program.

Rob's offense will be the final step in his evoultion to become one of if not the best college player in D1. It could be next year or the year after but when big Rob is a senior he should be producing a double double every game. Yes, I do think he's that good.

Keep the shirt on the best is yet to come.

Go!! Zags!!!

mainer6
03-01-2009, 09:56 AM
Totally agree.
Will got in for a few minutes in the first half to give Josh a breather and I don't remember seeing one thing he did wrong. True, he didn't get involved in the offense other than to try and set screens, but he didn't turnover the ball or cause any problems. And on defense, when an outside shot went up, he immediately found a body to block out and was in good position for a rebound (ball went the other direction). SCU never drove the lane while Will was in there. That's all he needs to do so Josh can get a breather. Plus when he blocks a shot (if he would have done had he gotten in for a few minutes more in the second half), Will gets the team pumped up.
.


I think the point about Foster being solid on defense is the key. Yeah, he is not much offensively, but hasn't that been the buzz on Gonzaga all year (they have so many potential scorers)? So, Josh rests, and Pargo, or Gray, or Downs, look for their shot a little more. No matter how you slice it, Gonzaga will always have 3 scorers on the court at all times.
So, the real questions is, do you need Sacre so bad to grab a few boards. As much as I would like to see them go deep, Sacre's long term contributions are way more important than being able to bang around in there in March.

JohnOGU
03-01-2009, 11:56 AM
we face a brockman, or someone similar to him, we're gonna need Sacre

jim77
03-01-2009, 12:12 PM
We have all the pieces to go deep NOW. We don't neeed Rob to score, we don't need big minutes either. We need someone to get us over the hump. We need someone to come in and take up space who won't be pushed around. We need to strike while the iron is hot. IF he's healthy then he should play, eligibility shouldn't matter. Its about the team. He's got 2 more years even if he does play. The guy totally changes the "finnesse" label when he steps onto the court. He is the final piece...him and Josh together would be NASTY!

MDABE80
03-01-2009, 01:00 PM
John: Rob couldn't guard Brockman. Nobody does a good job on Jon. SLow him ? yes. Guard him as in shut him down or get him off his usual double double? No. Need to get a full committee together to guard him.

gamagin
03-01-2009, 01:06 PM
John: Rob couldn't guard Brockman. Nobody does a good job on Jon. SLow him ? yes. Guard him as in shut him down or get him off his usual double double? No. Need to get a full committee together to guard him.

I was under the impression Rob had decided against surgery. That he had heard about all the bent screws in other athletes who needed two procedures and so forth.

then it is mentioned in meehan's blog that he had surgery. do you know which is correct ? thanks,

JohnOGU
03-01-2009, 01:45 PM
John: Rob couldn't guard Brockman. Nobody does a good job on Jon. SLow him ? yes. Guard him as in shut him down or get him off his usual double double? No. Need to get a full committee together to guard him.

Clearly not, but he could do a better job than josh or will. with his fouls, josh could be more aggressive like he needs to be.

BTW, Rob isnt Red-shirting.

roxdoc
03-01-2009, 02:25 PM
Even if he plays (IMHO pretty anticlimactic if he does) Rob and Josh won't play together at this stage of the season. Few will not change his offensive scheme now.

BobZag
03-01-2009, 02:31 PM
I was under the impression Rob had decided against surgery. That he had heard about all the bent screws in other athletes who needed two procedures and so forth.

then it is mentioned in meehan's blog that he had surgery. do you know which is correct ? thanks,

The surgery referred to is when the screws (now bent) were put in way back before Old Spice.

Fwiw, Few's tone sounds like he's for Rob returning. We'll see, and it could be as early as Tuesday.

Frazzle
03-01-2009, 03:34 PM
BTW, Rob isnt Red-shirting.

Whatcu' talkin' 'bout, Willis? Inside information?

GonzagaDynasty
03-01-2009, 03:41 PM
We all forget how Raw Big Rob is.. Last year I remember saying on multiple occasions how weak he was... He wouldnt be able to come back and give us a whole lot. he's not in game shape, and he hasnt developed enough.

but the guy has the passion, as he is the emotional leader on the sidelines, and I love that about him. Im excited to see Rob in the future, I hope he comes back next year 100%.

ZagAddict
03-01-2009, 04:17 PM
Whatcu' talkin' 'bout, Willis? Inside information?

I think it's info straight from the Gooch...

UberZagFan
03-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Burn a medical redshirt with only tourney games left (and upstate)? Poppycock.

As for the you never know when you will get back to the NCAAs? Have you been paying attention the last 10 years? GU Hoyas and the Irish are horrible comparisons.

As for the rotation, hopefully Ira has not seen the last of his playing time. He can contribute a lot off the bench in ways that differ than any other bench player. Will, OTOH, probably has seen the end of any significant minutes (barring upstate minutes).

JohnOGU
03-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Whatcu' talkin' 'bout, Willis? Inside information?

Perhaps. But he's not red-shirting.

ZagLawGrad
03-01-2009, 06:47 PM
This is an interesting call. If he can give a few minutes per game of tough play inside, well, that's gonna help. But I worry about the point that maybe he will not be in game shape. Having weighed both options, I'll happily defer to Mr. Sacre and the coaching staff on this one.

theirishzag03
03-01-2009, 08:11 PM
Perhaps. But he's not red-shirting.

That's what I am hearing as well. He may as well have last year! Think he is tired of not playing. I guess playing the 1st 2 minutes for Kusso just didn't quite quench the thirst!
;)

Hextall7388
03-01-2009, 10:14 PM
If Josh/Austin get into foul trouble in the first or second game of the Dance and Sacre comes in and holds the fort, contributes, and the Zags go on to the Elite Eight or Final Four....Few will look like a genius.

If Sacre plays a few minutes in the WCC tournament and the Zags are one and done in the Dance...Few will be questioned for the next 3 years.

If you had a crystal ball and had a choice (a) Final Four appearance, but you have to burn Sacre's redshirt or (b) First round exit and you save his redshirt....which would you select?

In my mind, the future is now. My reasons for playing Sacre:

1) Josh, Matt and Micah are playing their best basketball since joining the Zags. Daye is coming around and Jeremy is protecting the basketball. We are peaking at just the right time.

2) Unlike past years, there are at least 10-15 teams that could legitimately win the national championship. There is no clear favorite. This season has shown that every team is vulnerable.

3) We will need Sacre's size if we draw a Big East team. Is it just me, or did every guy in today's game between Louisville and Marquette have a build like Ira (but taller). We witnessed what happened that last time we played a big physical Big East team, Austin, Bouldin and Micah all fouled out and Josh played with 4 fouls.

4) Who knows what the future will hold...will Daye and Bouldin be back next year? How will all of these freshmen turn out? Will the rumors of Few leaving ever come true?

5) As for the best interest of Sacre....a deep run in March for the Zags with Sacre playing a role would be great national exposure for him. He's a 7'0 260 pound guy who will draw the announcers' attention. There is the story of his injury, and that his father played professional football....I can hear the announcers now. A good showing on the court could put Sacre on everyone's radar for next year and the year after as someone to watch.

theirishzag03
03-01-2009, 10:22 PM
3 years from now people are complaining about using up Robert's RS this year, our recruits are not as good as I sure see them being! Plus don't you think 2 years is enough time to recruit another 7-footer??? Isn't 2 years enough time for Polling to put on 30 plus pounds?

What if Robert does red shirt this year, Bol plays 1 year and leaves, Manny plays 2 years, Demetri gets hurt, or any number of things???

The best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago! The 2nd best time is NOW!!!

jim77
03-01-2009, 10:40 PM
Good post Hextall....dead on!

Sounds like BZ is hinting that Rob may show up this Tuesday...which would be great! Few is no dummy he knows this could be the year we break through. This team is gonna graduate some great players this year...the coach owes them the chance to get as far as they are capable. If that means burning a redshirt of a player who still has 2 years to go, then so be it. He may be raw but, he's a fantastic athlete...more than capable of getting it done. Rob at 80% is probably tougher in the middle than any other guy at 100%.

jbslicer
03-02-2009, 02:43 AM
I'd keep Sacre redshirted.

Once and Future Zag
03-02-2009, 05:46 AM
3 ifs.

A) If he's medically cleared.

B) If Rob WANTS to burn the redshirt.

C) If Mark Few has a use for him.

If the answer to all three is yes, then burn it - if any of them are no, then he should, RS.

gamagin
03-02-2009, 06:34 AM
I think it's Rob's call. It's his health and future first.


that said, this thread one day will be true. Sacre will play.

Go Zags !

CDC84
03-02-2009, 07:58 AM
I can't imagine how difficult this decision is for Rob. On the one hand, he's a competitor who wants to win, and this team has a clear need for his services, even if he just plays 10 MPG. On other hand, he has every right to be concerned about maximizing his eligibility.

Another positive when it comes to redshirting him this year is that he will return next season with 2 years in the program and 3 years to play. I think the biggest thing Rob needs is coaching and continued skill development. The more reps and more coaching he gets, the better he's going to get in games.

UberZagFan
03-02-2009, 08:38 AM
Uber is surprised how many want Few to burn Sacre's med redshirt. It's not just whether Sacre will fill a need or whether "this is the year" but what are the chances of him contributing at a high game level having not played since the beginning of Dec? It's like calling a p0t size bet on a inside straight draw with one card to come. Playing the Sacre card now would be a donkey move--no question about it.

jbslicer
03-02-2009, 09:20 AM
I agree with Uber Zag. Sacre's first name is not Barrack.