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bigparb
02-27-2009, 09:12 AM
The Steven Gray that we need has disappeared. Let me say that I had high hopes for Gray coming into the season. I thought that it looked like he worked hard over the summer--he looked stronger and I was expecting that big jump from Frosh to Soph.

Instead he's been inconsistent at best, and of late he's disappeared. Take out his 21 pt 2nd half outburst against LMU and he's 5 of his last 22 from the floor. The culmination of his decline appeared to be last night. I can't believe that I'm going to say this, but he might as well not even been on the floor. Gray seems to be playing in a fog on offense. He's confindence appears to be completely gone and he doesn't appear to be looking for his shot at all; and this from a guy who has possibly to prettiest jumper we've seen at GU in the last 10 years!!!!

Where are you Steven Gray!!???!!

I would love to see Steven rebound from this slump in time for the NCAA's, but I would like to see evidence of this over the next couple of games (gotta shoot yourself out of a slump!!!). His resurgence is vital for us to have any chance for a deep run in the dance, because when he's stroking from distance I believe that we can play with anyone!!

Come back Steven and be the bomber that we know you are!!!

gamagin
02-27-2009, 09:16 AM
he'll recover.

BobZag
02-27-2009, 09:24 AM
http://www.taudiobook.com/catalog/images/Invisible_Man.jpg

Baldwinzag
02-27-2009, 09:25 AM
Some hit the Freshman wall and others encounter the Sophomore slump. Gray was fairly consistent as a Frosh, so he's encountering the latter. No biggie. This team needs his on-the-ball defense more than you're giving him credit for. After Few assigned Gray to cover Foster last night, Foster struggled the rest of the way and was quiet in the 2nd half. Also, Gray will always be accounted for and respected by opposing defenses with his ability to stroke it deep. We need that type of player on the floor come tourney time. If he gets hot at the right time, Gray still has the ability to win a game by himself, whether its in the WCC or NCAA's. I assure you, we'd be much worse off without Steven Gray in the lineup.

bigparb
02-27-2009, 09:25 AM
he'll recover.

That nice, but big boy college basketball is about winning NOW!!! I give a s__t whether he's a soph or not......look around the country, freshmen and soph's everywhere are playing big and making big-time contributions to their teams......

Don't take this personally gamagin, but the "he's just a soph" arguement is weak....and probably insulting for a guy like Steven......he should be playing bigger and everyone knows it.....

Baldwinzag
02-27-2009, 09:40 AM
Come back Steven and be the bomber that we know you are!!

he should be playing bigger and everyone knows it.....

Really? Who is everyone?

Did you even watch the game last night? Steven Gray was 0-1 from downtown. He didn't need to play "bigger" or score a ton of points against SCU. GU was doing just fine on offense. What Gonzaga needed last night was Gray's defensive intensity against SCU's talented guards. In the 2nd half, Steven was asked to play man on Kevin Foster who happened to be lights out in the 1st Half. When Gray was covering him, he nearly shut him out. Apart from Meech's limited mins, Gray was the only one hustling hard on defense.

Lastly, why ask for more from Steven Gray when we had FOUR players score in double figures last night? Apparently, you wanted five considering Gray didn't get in on the fun. That's just ridiculous.

Instead of harping on Gray, why not commend Heytvelt scoring a career high, Bouldin hitting a record amount for FT's, Pargo playing steady throughout, and Daye getting us off to a great start last night.

EngineerZag
02-27-2009, 09:45 AM
Actually, Gray was not all that spectacular guarding Foster last night. At least on one occasion he doubled down low on Bryant, who kicked it out to Foster who was wide open and Gray just kind of half heartedly ran out there only to watch Foster sink yet another three.

We really need Gray to play well for us to advance in the tournament IMO. What happened to all the slashing moves he exhibited against Tennessee? Those were freaking awesome. And he can really get his shot going at times, too. When he's playing well it gives us so much more versatility on offense.

Baldwinzag
02-27-2009, 10:12 AM
We really need Gray to play well for us to advance in the tournament IMO.

I think we really need everyone to play well for us to advance in the tournament, especially this year.

My point is this, Gray was 7-9 from 3pt land in the 1st Round of the Tourney last year and scored over 20 points. He played great and was our "long bomber" vs Davidson. How well did that work out for us? Also, earlier this year Gray scored a career-high 24 points against UConn and played amazingly well. Didn't help the outcome much from what I saw...

Listen, there is no doubt Gray is great player and we certainly need him to perform at a high level for this team to go far in the Tournament....but same goes for everyone else.

Last night was a good example, we maintained better balance on offense than we've had in a long time and overcame a tough team in a hostile enviroment to win on the road w/o much from Gray. 'nuff said.

FuManShoes
02-27-2009, 10:29 AM
Gray didn't look for his shot much last night but he did plenty of other things to help the team win. He got several loose balls, mostly O-rebounds. He scored on that nifty fast break in traffic and went to the floor on the play. Look, I wanna see him bombing threes as much as the next guy, but last night the Zags scored a ton of points in the paint and has Santa Clara in trouble when Bryant was sitting. The team was well-served by Gray not jacking up a bunch of contested threes.

marczagfan
02-27-2009, 10:32 AM
it's funny who we can find a negative spin to every win...just last week we have the "steven gray is back" thread, and now its, what have you done for me lately. Gray hasn't played spectacular the last few weeks, but thats fine, last time I checked the zags were 13-0 in conference. Gray has been asked to do a lot of different things on the team this year, he is a great scorer, but there are many nights he does not need to this year when Josh, Austin and Matt are hitting on all cylinders then Steven is asked to step up his defensive game and know down the open shot when available. Gray will have plenty of chances over the next two years to show how good he is, he will put up big scoring numbers the next two seasons, he just doesn't need to this year, its not that he can't. I would rather have Gray putting up big numbers and the zags win as well, but if it takes Gray to contribute where he is needed on certain nights for the zags to win, I will take that every time we play. Bottom line is that Gray has not scorched the nets the past few weeks but we have come away with W's.

bballbeachbum
02-27-2009, 10:43 AM
I'll say this; he's earned my belief that he knows how to show up, perhaps not as consistantly as optimally desired all year (sophomoric a bit???) and he's had valley moments (like everyone), but he knows how to do that imo, he knows how to get himself there, to that level, because he's proven to himself he can. Remember Davidson, remember UConn, etc.

Baldwin's point is well taken in that Steven is finding other ways to contribute even if the bombs aren't falling...he's rebounding better, imo, scuffling it up in there and on the perimeter. Anyone else seeing that? I have no facts to support that feeling.

Anyway, I think he's growing right before our eyes and he's going to have more opportunities in the coming weeks and games to fight through the inevitable rough spots in a season and once again, get himself to that level and do it.

I believe. We'll see.

GO ZAGS!!!

vandalzag
02-27-2009, 10:55 AM
Only one ball, only so many shots. I would be more concerned if he was 1-12 from the field and he was walking around on the court. His effort was good and with the way that Josh and Matt were playing no need for him to score. He does not strike me as the type of player that will demand shots (like Daye,Bouldin) regardless of the situation. He did play 25 minutes so I would assume that Few liked something that he saw from Gray

gamagin
02-27-2009, 11:49 AM
That nice, but big boy college basketball is about winning NOW!!! I give a s__t whether he's a soph or not......look around the country, freshmen and soph's everywhere are playing big and making big-time contributions to their teams......

Don't take this personally gamagin, but the "he's just a soph" arguement is weak....and probably insulting for a guy like Steven......he should be playing bigger and everyone knows it.....

what part of undefeated in league do you not understand ? And what did steven not do to raise your hackles last night ?

He had a good game. Not a great one, for him, imo. But I see him more like MB at times. that is playing an excellent game away from the ball. And from what I saw, he did just that.

re "probably insulting" and "everyone knows it" in your note above: I'd say you "probably" made that whole sentence up. And "everyone knows it."

Go Zags !

BroncoZAG615
02-27-2009, 12:00 PM
He had a good game. Not a great one, for him, imo. But I see him more like MB at times. that is playing an excellent game away from the ball. And from what I saw, he did just that.


Just as a point of clarification, what did he do very well away from the ball? I'm not in disagreement with you because maybe I missed it. Like BZ posted above, Gray was the invisible man especially on defense. That is where I have been most disappointed with him this season. He went from guarding Steph Curry in the NCAA Tournament to being blown past by players from Santa Clara.

Jay Bilas did say that Gray could be the most complete player on this team, but the major question is whether or not he has the attitude to be that player.

TheZagPhish
02-27-2009, 12:15 PM
Soon enough this discussion will fade and we may even chuckle about it.

I heart Steven Gray. He has lead us to victory and will again.

Go Zags!

bigparb
02-27-2009, 12:34 PM
:boxing: I'm not going to argue with those who are happy with Gray doing what he has been doning for the last few weeks (less the 2nd half of LMU).....if you are happy with his lack of confidence/production on the offensive end, then fine, be happy........the reality is that if we had Gray going 5-8 from downtown last night, it probably would have been a 20 pt game; not the tight game they were in.....

The point (now pay attention) was to say that when Gray is playing with confidence, taking and hitting his 3's, we are a dangerous team capable of a deep run........w/o his production, lucky to get beyond 2nd rd

.....and yes, I'll speak for the group, AGAIN, everyone knows this (except two guys who are happy with him sleep-walking on offense).....

BZ couldn't have said it better above........unfortunately, what bothers me so much, is that I agree with Bilas, he's got all the tools, he just apparently does believe it.....

IMO...

sullyzag66
02-27-2009, 12:50 PM
I do recall the camera zooming in on him after one particular play (might have been the missed three) and he was looking back over his shoulder at the bench as if he were waiting for the hook. He hasn't been starting. His confidence may be low. He's got the skills; he'll be back.

TheZagPhish
02-27-2009, 12:51 PM
Could I get a little emphasis on that, parb? ;)

I get your point and on the whole agree. I really hope he finds his confidence and that those deadly weapons he possesses get a bit more use.

Happy Friday!

JohnOGU
02-27-2009, 01:05 PM
Ok, the ####ty thing is that Ray is not some one-trick pony which he is making himself out to be right now. if he's not hitting 3's, he could easily put the ball on the floor and penetrate, as we saw him d against UCONN. i wish more of our players would do this, especially Micah. noone is going to stop Micah if he attacs the rim. im tired of these games of catch that we play around the perimeter. we need to start attacking. especially if 3's arent falling from our sharpshooters like gray and micah.

gamagin
02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
Just as a point of clarification, what did he do very well away from the ball? I'm not in disagreement with you because maybe I missed it. Like BZ posted above, Gray was the invisible man especially on defense. That is where I have been most disappointed with him this season. He went from guarding Steph Curry in the NCAA Tournament to being blown past by players from Santa Clara.

Jay Bilas did say that Gray could be the most complete player on this team, but the major question is whether or not he has the attitude to be that player.


Bronco:

I thought SG was effective in the second half on their shooter.

Baldwin, bballbeach and vandal already noted on this thread what I believe I was watching and saw. CDC has a different take and he didn't like SG's game, either. even Engineer pointed out tht SG let the frosh get a free one after he collapsed on Bryant and failed to get back in front of him one time.

But massive failure or breakdown i did not see. neither did I see a rising star.

I thought SG made a few good drives inside where JH was holding court but generally he was a non factor with the ball.

Otoh, I don't think SG or anyone else should have nor needed to drive when JH was on fire. JH was the hot hand. The first and best choice.

We wisely went back to him. MB was doing his thing, too. Very effectively. Had either of them blown cold, I suggest there were others, like SG, fully capable of doing their best. We had 4 in double figures.

But, to the point, why switch to the lower percentage (perimeter) game when the inside game is working ? and why blame one guy for failing to force his game from the perimeter at a time when another type attack is working ? I saw SG as odd man out for this particular set of matchups. certainly offensively.

as for the confusing ending, I think that was a byproduct of our failing to sink the dagger w/free throws when smc's game became one against the clock. I think there were three Zags who shot clunkers and one of them was SG, if memory serves. But that was hardly the deal breaker.

MB then stepped up and dashed smc's hopes and sealed our W, thank goodness.

theirishzag03
02-27-2009, 04:27 PM
Some hit the Freshman wall and others encounter the Sophomore slump. Gray was fairly consistent as a Frosh, so he's encountering the latter. No biggie. This team needs his on-the-ball defense more than you're giving him credit for. After Few assigned Gray to cover Foster last night, Foster struggled the rest of the way and was quiet in the 2nd half. Also, Gray will always be accounted for and respected by opposing defenses with his ability to stroke it deep. We need that type of player on the floor come tourney time. If he gets hot at the right time, Gray still has the ability to win a game by himself, whether its in the WCC or NCAA's. I assure you, we'd be much worse off without Steven Gray in the lineup.


Actually, it seemed to me that Foster was slowed down a bit by Demetri. Steven seemed a bit slow last night. I think it is a little early to say he is invisible. Just last week there were lots of people saying how he was back...etc

Fickle fickle fickle board!:(

bigblahla
02-27-2009, 05:25 PM
Some hit the Freshman wall and others encounter the Sophomore slump. Gray was fairly consistent as a Frosh, so he's encountering the latter. No biggie. This team needs his on-the-ball defense more than you're giving him credit for. After Few assigned Gray to cover Foster last night, Foster struggled the rest of the way and was quiet in the 2nd half. Also, Gray will always be accounted for and respected by opposing defenses with his ability to stroke it deep. We need that type of player on the floor come tourney time. If he gets hot at the right time, Gray still has the ability to win a game by himself, whether its in the WCC or NCAA's. I assure you, we'd be much worse off without Steven Gray in the lineup.


I gotta believe that too!

Go Steven,

Go!! Zags!!!

Zagsker
02-27-2009, 07:20 PM
I do recall the camera zooming in on him after one particular play (might have been the missed three) and he was looking back over his shoulder at the bench as if he were waiting for the hook. He hasn't been starting. His confidence may be low. He's got the skills; he'll be back.

It was the play when he threw the deep court pass to Daye that went over his (Daye's) head and out of bounds.


Bigparb....I agree, for us to be a dangerous team Gray needs to be way more consistant on O

fedwayzag
02-27-2009, 08:40 PM
I do not know if anyone else has noticed, but the ball seems to come off his hand this year awkwardly. The spin of the ball also appears different this year. I have actually noticed it all season. Event against LMU we had made a bunch of threes his release seemed weird. I love Steven and he is-gonna be a great player, just wondering if anyone else noticed or has tape from last year to compare to this year.

CDC84
02-27-2009, 10:22 PM
Steven is not squaring his body as well as he did last season. Sometimes the release point on his shot if off to the side. Whenever I see that, I know the ball is not going on. You are not alone in that observation fedway.

WallaWallaZag
02-28-2009, 01:10 AM
steven has been inconsistent with his shot this year, but i'm really not that worried as i'm more concerned with how aggressive he's been, or lack thereof going to the hole...even when his shot hasn't been falling he has taken the threes he should when he's had daylight, but he hasn't consistently attacked the rim.

different guys will be hot on different nights shooting, but when the defense gets tight, or our offense lacks movement, or plays break down and shot clocks start winding down, you have to have guys who can go one-on-one or attack the rim off high pick-and-rolls to maybe draw fouls if not score. it's also easier to get put backs off missed shots due to penetration.

josh doesn't play off the bounce, micah for some reason doesn't have to the rim moves (though with his talent and athletic ability you would think he should). our best at this is pargo, but in his attempt to transform into a true nba point this year, he hasn't been as aggressive and sometimes has appeared to lack confidence. austin can be put in an iso situation depending on the matchup (would be interested to see austin try to run the pick-n-roll as i think he has the handle to do it), but often when in iso ends up shooting a 15 foot fall-away cuz he's not strong enough to get closer. bouldin is attacking the rim the most and playing some 1-on-1, but that's mostly in the wcc as he can't get by bcs type true 3's and bigger 2's.

that brings us to steven, who has shown us he has moves and can drive by people, but doesn't try to. steven has just about bouldin's size and strength, but is more athletic and can get by or go up and over guys that bouldin can't. against a team like memphis or anytime bouldin is matched up against someone he struggles to get by, steven needs to pick up the slack for us to have a better chance. he did against uconn, so i know he can do it against just about anyone...i don't care even if he fails, he needs to at least make some attempts to drive, if only so that he might open things up on the perimeter.

montanazag88
02-28-2009, 07:27 AM
Completely, agree with WallaWalla - would only add that Steven has given some strong evidence of being a big game player...which should show up in the tourney games. (It reminds me of playing games against less talented teams and the only thing they had going - against better skill - was their intensity. It is not easy to adjust to players constantly out of position, but flying at you from every direction. Steven seems to do well against highly skilled teams and has no problem seeing things better on the floor.....which makes him an NBA prospect next year, provided he responds well to a greater role of scoring responsibilities.)

His man-to-man "d" was a little missing in that last game - too many layups given up. His shot selection has been poor, as pointed out, but that is what we've been saying about the Zags' team for most of the season. With this much offensive talent on the floor and the playing time so "strained" to feed egos, coach Few has had a unique challenge in cultivating the "big-game-ness" of Steven Gray over that of Pargo, Downs, Heytvelt and Bouldin.

I want to believe Gray's game will come back in an instant when needed and when the Zags learn to play the "team game" in the tourney like they have been doing lately in conference play.

rennis
02-28-2009, 07:42 AM
Steven Gray is tainted.

say w3rd son

bigblahla
02-28-2009, 09:02 AM
Steven is not squaring his body as well as he did last season. Sometimes the release point on his shot if off to the side. Whenever I see that, I know the ball is not going on. You are not alone in that observation fedway.

Bingo! At times he isn't prepared to shoot but does so anyway. I too believe at least on offense his form is inconsistent.

Have to add there is only one ball and so many shots so if other Zags get hot the shots may not be there for Steven.

Go!! Zags!!

Once and Future Zag
02-28-2009, 11:19 AM
:boxing: I'm not going to argue with those who are happy with Gray doing what he has been doning for the last few weeks (less the 2nd half of LMU).....if you are happy with his lack of confidence/production on the offensive end, then fine, be happy........the reality is that if we had Gray going 5-8 from downtown last night, it probably would have been a 20 pt game; not the tight game they were in.....

The point (now pay attention) was to say that when Gray is playing with confidence, taking and hitting his 3's, we are a dangerous team capable of a deep run........w/o his production, lucky to get beyond 2nd rd

.....and yes, I'll speak for the group, AGAIN, everyone knows this (except two guys who are happy with him sleep-walking on offense).....

BZ couldn't have said it better above........unfortunately, what bothers me so much, is that I agree with Bilas, he's got all the tools, he just apparently does believe it.....

IMO...

You're kind of... special... aren't you?

Nobody's happy about a subpar performance, and Steven's a gamer so I'm sure he's hardest on himself. But everybody has off nights - and even off- months sometimes. Sometimes the hoop is as big as a garbage can, and some times it's the size of a Campbell's soup can - but the games keep coming, so there's no time to reset.

Steven has EARNED the respect that for some reason you're loathe to grant him.

Remember the Iceman routine he put on last year? .03 seconds on the clock ring a bell? How many times, in only 2 years, has he stopped an opposing run with a steal? How many times has he drilled a three to stop a scoring drought?

At some point it's going to click, and he'll suddenly be at another level - and what I think we're seeing is the step back before the two steps forward.

We saw it in the Tennessee game with Matt Bouldin where he finally learned HOW to assert himself, not just to try to assert himself.

ZagSlug
02-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Micah Downs.

#1zagfan
02-28-2009, 12:38 PM
That nice, but big boy college basketball is about winning NOW!!! I give a s__t whether he's a soph or not......look around the country, freshmen and soph's everywhere are playing big and making big-time contributions to their teams......

Don't take this personally gamagin, but the "he's just a soph" arguement is weak....and probably insulting for a guy like Steven......he should be playing bigger and everyone knows it.....

The freshman and soph's that you say play big and make big time contributions to their teams. Those guys are the top players in College ball. Steven Gray is a different player. He contributes obviously but he isnt a top player in the nation. Your one of the guys that all they do is look at stats and if you see good stats you think there good. You dont look at how they do things off the ball. Do they roll after setting screens box out the defenders on shots. Thats what scouts look at...... Not just the stats bigparb

MDABE80
02-28-2009, 01:01 PM
1. Steven's a major league talent.
2. Steven has NBA skills and size.
3. Steven's game is way off right now........both offense and defense. Not sure why.
4. His mechanics are just a mess. His shot is crooked, from the side and needs to be corrected.

5. He'll be back in form if he does the work. In the beginning of the season he became unexpectedly quick. He looks slower now.....feet look clumbsy.

He's OUR guy. No need to expect he won't be back in form and better than ever. These kids are watched and monitored carefully. Steven's been a good example of student athlete.BUT......he's a good boy who wants to win. He'll be back. He's motivated.........

4AmericasTeam
02-28-2009, 01:50 PM
what part of undefeated in league do you not understand ? And what did steven not do to raise your hackles last night ?

He had a good game. Not a great one, for him, imo. But I see him more like MB at times. that is playing an excellent game away from the ball. And from what I saw, he did just that.

re "probably insulting" and "everyone knows it" in your note above: I'd say you "probably" made that whole sentence up. And "everyone knows it."

Go Zags !

Agreed. Plus, I think the criticisms of Gray are insulting and seriously in the "get-a-life" category.

ZagLawGrad
02-28-2009, 05:23 PM
SG's a gamer. I won't be surprised if he's a hero in the Dance.

kclubfounder
02-28-2009, 05:48 PM
Yo, Steven, I sure hope you are reading this thread. There are a bunch of brilliant basketball minds who are tearing you apart. They are also probably great players. So, you know, it is really valuable input.




Wherever the sarcasm button is, I'd hit it, but I don't know where it is, and there are most likely some idiots reading this who don't understand sarcasm.

4AmericasTeam
02-28-2009, 06:30 PM
14-0 Congrats Zags! S. G. thanks for your enourmous contribution!!

MDABE80
02-28-2009, 08:32 PM
yep..32 minutes, 1 pt, 5 boards. Just doesn't sound right. Doesn't sound like our Steven. Hope this resolves.........GO Steven..NCAA's are on their way!

bigparb
02-28-2009, 10:44 PM
a couple things....I love Gray's game and what he can bring to the table; THAT is why I'm so disappointed in what I've seen from him...

...luckily there are more big bus riders on this board who understand that you can still be critical of something you are passionate and care about deeply.....

....is it really so hard to wrap your mind around that fact that we would actually be better if Mr. Gray played up to his potential??? or even AD for that matter.....but that's a whole other can-o-worms....

theirishzag03
03-01-2009, 08:28 AM
a couple things....I love Gray's game and what he can bring to the table; THAT is why I'm so disappointed in what I've seen from him...

...luckily there are more big bus riders on this board who understand that you can still be critical of something you are passionate and care about deeply.....

....is it really so hard to wrap your mind around that fact that we would actually be better if Mr. Gray played up to his potential??? or even AD for that matter.....but that's a whole other can-o-worms....

That would be AWESOME!!!

Can you imagine if....

Matt scored 26 points, grabbed 8 rebounds, dished out 10 assists
Josh scored 29 points, pulled down 12 boards, blocked 4 shots
Austin had 25 points, 12 rebounds, and 5 blocks
Jeremy lit it up for 22 points, 10 dimes and 5 steals
Micah poured in 18 points, had 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, and 12 rebounds

Thats just the starters!!!

Steven comes in and is on fire- he scores 23, has 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals, and 2 blocks

Ira has solid contributions of 9 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 steals and of course he has to have 2 highlight reel dunks!!!

Demetri brings energy and 13 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal.


So if and when EVERYONE plays to their potential (maybe against USC-Upstate) the line score should be something like....

Zags 165- (?) 62!!!!!

We should have 73 RB's
About 33 assists
Should get 15-16 blocks (not counting Foster or Sacre!)
and around 22 steals....

And then all members of the board will be happy that all Zags played to their potential at the same time!

Once and Future Zag
03-01-2009, 08:45 AM
Of course - how could we be so silly?

Why hasn't Steven chosen to break out of his slump? His insistence on staying in it isn't very Zag-like.

I've never heard of a player simply refusing to stop slumping. It's so easy to do, why don't any of them do it?

EngineerZag
03-01-2009, 11:03 AM
I think it's funny how a lot of people on this board can't handle it when any player is talked about negatively in any way. I've never seen a basketball board like that, it's kinda funny. Let's just all constantly praise our Zags without any discussion or thought about what could be better, yeah that would make for a great board.

No one here is personally attacking Steven Gray, so I don't see anything wrong with this discussion. If you can't handle it, don't bother to read/post about it.

I think the majority of posters here are saying that SG is enormously talented and so it's frustrating to see him disappear like he has off and on during the season, both on offense and defense. On defense he often helps too much and leaves someone wide open for three. On offense, WallaWallaZag hit the nail on the head - he doesn't have to make 5 threes a game to be impressive, see the Tennessee game - we are lacking in the slashing, driving to the hoop department and Steven has that ability, it would be nice to see him do it more often - he is the best player on the floor for finishing in the lane even when he's fouled.

All of you polyannas can now go ballistic and neg rep me all you want but I think it's crazy that we can't have a reasonable discussion about a player like this. It sure would be nice, too, if you would be man enough to identify yourself when you neg rep.

bigparb
03-01-2009, 12:14 PM
I was about to ask Polly if she wanted a cracker, but E-zag beat me to it....darn you E-zag!! :)


I think the majority of posters here are saying that SG is enormously talented and so it's frustrating to see him disappear like he has off and on during the season, both on offense and defense. On defense he often helps too much and leaves someone wide open for three. On offense, WallaWallaZag hit the nail on the head - he doesn't have to make 5 threes a game to be impressive, see the Tennessee game - we are lacking in the slashing, driving to the hoop department and Steven has that ability, it would be nice to see him do it more often - he is the best player on the floor for finishing in the lane even when he's fouled.

thank you...couldn't have said it better myself

bigparb
03-01-2009, 12:23 PM
That would be AWESOME!!!

Can you imagine if....

Matt scored 26 points, grabbed 8 rebounds, dished out 10 assists
Josh scored 29 points, pulled down 12 boards, blocked 4 shots
Austin had 25 points, 12 rebounds, and 5 blocks
Jeremy lit it up for 22 points, 10 dimes and 5 steals
Micah poured in 18 points, had 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocks, and 12 rebounds

Thats just the starters!!!

Steven comes in and is on fire- he scores 23, has 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 steals, and 2 blocks

Ira has solid contributions of 9 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 steals and of course he has to have 2 highlight reel dunks!!!

Demetri brings energy and 13 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal.


So if and when EVERYONE plays to their potential (maybe against USC-Upstate) the line score should be something like....

Zags 165- (?) 62!!!!!

We should have 73 RB's
About 33 assists
Should get 15-16 blocks (not counting Foster or Sacre!)
and around 22 steals....

And then all members of the board will be happy that all Zags played to their potential at the same time!

Wow.....the irrationality of some here make it impossible to have any type of reasonable discourse regarding the players or the team as a whole.........

mainer6
03-01-2009, 01:45 PM
A good friend of mine coached against S. Gray's, Bainbridge HS team. I asked about Gray knowing he was going to GU and wanting to hear how great he was, how he was going to score 20 a night, etc... The coach told me this:
He's really good at everything. He can do whatever you need him to do. He can score and defend, run the court, rebound, and pass. He doesn't do the same thing all night he just does what his team needs and he does it better than all the other kids on the court.

So, maybe Gray is truely a team player. Maybe, as Gonzaga continues to win by letting points come from whoever is hot that night, Gray is just filling in some of the gaps. Maybe, as long as they are winning, he is content.
I know he might be making mistakes, but he might also have adjusted his style a bit this year. That may be optimistic, but based on what my coach friend saw in him as a HS senior, it is possible that Gray is just comfortable in a supporting role.
And yes, he is shooting worse, but that would also be a result of having a different mindset when he steps on the court.
I am not ready to dismiss his play as subpar until GU is losing games. Then, if we need him and he doesn't deliver, we have ourselves a topic.

theirishzag03
03-01-2009, 02:57 PM
Wow.....the irrationality of some here make it impossible to have any type of reasonable discourse regarding the players or the team as a whole.........


Huh??? You don't think Everyone should play to their potential EVERY night?

All I did was take all of their best stats (which would be their "potential"

I hope some see it is impossible for everyone to have their best games at the same time. SG is not really in a slump! Does he have "moments" yes, like UConn (slashing/driving), But he DID lose his starting spot! It took Micah a while to adjust. Relax, he will probably come in and lite it up in the tourney, just like against Davidson

kclubfounder
03-01-2009, 03:04 PM
Nice comments Mainer. Of course, this is a "rip the player" thread, so you are unfortunately a Polyanna. You see, you are defending a player on a thread devoted to ripping him.

It sure would be nice to have a reasonable discourse that includes the defense of someone getting prosecuted, but the irrationality of some here make that impossible.