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ZagNative
02-24-2009, 05:20 PM
From Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/ncaa-march-madness-lifestyle-sport_basketball.html):

America's Best College Basketball Coaches
Monte Burke, 02.24.09, 04:00 PM EST
These 10 men in the last four years have collectively recruited the best classes and steered their players to the most wins and championships.

Though millions of college-basketball fans will have their eyes on the players angling for a shot at the Final Four next month, the men stalking the sidelines are often the ones who deserve the most attention.

That's true of Roy Williams, head coach of the University of North Carolina Tarheels. Williams, now in his sixth year with the school, has taken his team to two Final Fours and won a championship in 2005. A top-notch recruiter and motivator, Williams coaches with an unflappable cool, a trait reflected in his players' calm on the court.

These talents landed him atop our list of the country's best college hoops coaches. The University of Kansas Jayhawks' Bill Self, UCLA Bruins' Ben Howland, Duke University Blue Devils' Mike Krzyzewski and University of Florida Gators' Billy Donovan round out the top five, respectively
Behind the Numbers
To identify the country's best college basketball coaches, we measured recruiting class rank, win-loss percentage, NCAA Tournament invites, Final Four trips and, the ultimate goal of every coach, a championship.

....

n compiling our rankings, we looked at all major college coaches in these five categories going back four years, the typical matriculation period for a college student (except, of course, certain superstar basketball players who jump to the NBA early). We gave a bit more weight to the last three metrics, especially Final Four appearances and championships. After all, fans of Jim Valvano's 1983 North Carolina State team would most likely agree that the championship that year far outweighed the team's mediocre regular season record.

...

At No. 7 is John Calipari, who has in a very short time rebuilt the once-woeful Memphis program, winning an impressive 126 games in the last four years and making the championship games last year.

Some surprises: Mark Few, coach at the tiny Gonzaga University (6,700 enrollment), makes the list. Though his last name is a good description of the resources he has at hand, Few continues to make the NCAA Tournament year-in and year-out. And relative no-name Bo Ryan has quietly built a solid program at Wisconsin.

Photo Album and rankings (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/ncaa-march-madness-lifestyle-sport_basketball_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000)

FuManShoes
02-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Nice. Few comes in one spot ahead of a zombie!

http://images.forbes.com/media/2009/02/24/basketball_09.jpg

kyle dixon
02-25-2009, 05:56 AM
I guess CBI invitations are not factored in to this grading scale of coaches? Sorry. Could not resist. :)

Reborn
02-25-2009, 07:54 AM
Mark Few at #8. This is so awesome. I was just talking to my oldest son last night about Mark Few, and saying that I felt he was one of the best coaches in the country. I must admit that I did not think he would be this high. I think this is objective reporting surely shows what the basketball world thinks of our coach. This can do nothing short of helping him recruit at an even higher level. I think the future is really bright for Gonzaga fans, and our program is in really, really good hands.

brian_sun
02-25-2009, 09:11 AM
He makes the top 10 because some guys named Bobby Knight and Lute Olson are no longer coaching.

GoZags
02-25-2009, 09:14 AM
He makes the top 10 because some guys named Bobby Knight and Lute Olson are no longer coaching.

Hey math major. If Knight and Olson were still coaching (and justly proclaimed Top 10) Few STILL would have made this list (at #10 instead of #8).

Other than that, great point.

HillBillyZag
02-25-2009, 09:31 AM
Frankly I think Few could be rated even higher. And to not include Rick Patino in the top ten when Billy Donovan is rated so highly is a rank injustice. My own top ten would be:
#1. Coach K.
#2. Roy Williams
#3. Bill Self
#4. Tom Izzo
#5. Rick Patino
#6. Ben Howland
#7. Mark Few
#8. Rick Barnes
#9. Billy Donovan
#10 Jim B. (even if he won't leave his home floor.)
I rated my picks more on knowledge of the game, bench coaching, and interaction with players more than on wins and Tourney appearances. I also left off Calhoun, Calipari and Huggins, I just do not like their style. Plus if he were still actively coaching, Robert Montgomery Knight would be my #1 without a doubt.

208Zag
02-25-2009, 10:51 AM
I can think of at least three coaches off the top of my head that should be on this list and ahead of Coach Few . . .

Calhoun, Boeheim and Pitino all come to mind. No offense to Coach Few b/c he's done a great job at Gonzaga but these guys have been winning games and competing for national titles for decades . . . . 10-15 more years and I think Few could be right there . . . . IMHO

ZagNative
02-25-2009, 10:59 AM
They used a point system, in an attempt to be objective as possible, including NCAA tournament appearances over the last four years. Boeheim and Calhoun failed to make the tourney a couple of times in the past four years.

brian_sun
02-25-2009, 02:41 PM
How can Mark Few rank above Jim Calhoun, even if UConn missed the tourney couple times in the last ten years? I also have a problem with Pitino not on the list.

More over, why do you trust Forbes in CBB coach ranking? If this is SI or ESPN, then the writer would be fired for excluding Calhoun in the top 10. To put Calipari, Few, Ryan and Barnes above Calhoun is ridiculous.

Few is probably in the top 15 range, not top 10, here is my ranking:

1. Coach K.
2. Roy Williams
3. Jim Calhoun
4. Billy Donovan
5. Tom Izzo
6. Rick Pitino
7. Bill Self
8. Ben Howland
9. John Calipari
10. Tom Creem

11. Rick Barnes
12. Bo Ryan
13. Bruce Pearl
14. Mark Few
15. Mike Mongomery

malmer7
02-25-2009, 03:21 PM
what do they mean by limited resources though? i always thought that having the entire university and city (and most of the northwest portion of the united states) fully behind your team makes for pretty good resources... i understand that we may have not started out with the greatest resources in the world, but don't we match up pretty well with the top programs in the nation when it comes to facilities, etc.?

GoZags
02-25-2009, 03:23 PM
How can Mark Few rank above Jim Calhoun, even if UConn missed the tourney couple times in the last ten years? I also have a problem with Pitino not on the list.

More over, why do you trust Forbes in CBB coach ranking? If this is SI or ESPN, then the writer would be fired for excluding Calhoun in the top 10. To put Calipari, Few, Ryan and Barnes above Calhoun is ridiculous.

Few is probably in the top 15 range, not top 10, here is my ranking:

1. Coach K.
2. Roy Williams
3. Jim Calhoun
4. Billy Donovan
5. Tom Izzo
6. Rick Pitino
7. Bill Self
8. Ben Howland
9. John Calipari
10. Tom Creem

11. Rick Barnes
12. Bo Ryan
13. Bruce Pearl
14. Mark Few
15. Mike Mongomery

I believe the ability to generate a winning program (including NCAA success) with minimal financial resources (which I believe Forbes is qualified to measure) was what got Few on the Top 10 list.

Is it your position that all other 14 coaches on your list STILL be on your list if they'd spent their entire career coaching at a school that doesn't have a football program? Mike Montgomery would be there if he'd spent his career at Montana? Bill Self (edited due to E6 pointed out by BS) would be there if he'd spent his career at Tulsa? etc. etc. etc.?

The fact that Few is successful (on the National stage) with a minute fraction of the resources of those other programs is the story. At least in my opinion (and the opinion of the story's writer -- who flat out said so).

GoZags
02-25-2009, 03:25 PM
what do they mean by limited resources though? i always thought that having the entire university and city (and most of the northwest portion of the united states) fully behind your team makes for pretty good resources... i understand that we may have not started out with the greatest resources in the world, but don't we match up pretty well with the top programs in the nation when it comes to facilities, etc.?

No.

Gonzaga still plays in a small (albeit very nice) gym. Gonzaga also doesn't get any football money.

brian_sun
02-25-2009, 03:28 PM
I believe the ability to generate a winning program (including NCAA success) with minimal financial resources (which I believe Forbes is qualified to measure) was what got Few on the Top 10 list.

Is it your position that all other 14 coaches on your list STILL be on your list if they'd spent their entire career coaching at a school that doesn't have a football program? Mike Montgomery would be there if he'd spent his career at Montana? Bruce Self would be there if he'd spent his career at Tulsa? etc. etc. etc.?

The fact that Few is successful (on the National stage) with a minute fraction of the resources of those other programs is the story. At least in my opinion (and the opinion of the story's writer -- who flat out said so).


Who's Bruce Self? Bruce Pearl or Bill Self? You said Tulsa, so I assume you mean Bill Self. But Bruce Pearl coach UW Milwaukee to enormous success too.

GoZags
02-25-2009, 03:34 PM
Good catch. E6.

That being said, do you believe they'd have made the top 15 coaches list if they hadn't moved to big football schools? Of course they're good coaches. But would they have taken their programs as far as Few? Would Forbes be putting them in there with Roy Williams et al?

I don't think so.

brian_sun
02-25-2009, 03:53 PM
But Mark Few didn't start with nothing. He took over after Monson took the Zags to the Elite 8. This is his 10th year, I can argue that he hasn't been coaching long enough to get to the top 10. Sure, the other 14 guys have more resources, but how do you know they couldn't do what Few did in GU? Coach K built Duke to the most successful program in the country from nothing. Sure, Duke has more resources than GU now. But before coach K was there, Duke wasn't much better than GU. Coach K definitely did not take over a Duke team which went to the Elite 8 the previous year. Do you think if Few stays here till year 28 in his coaching career, that he'd win 3 national championships, 10 final fours? I don't think so.

It's true that most of the coaches on that list make their names at big time schools. But they got the big time school jobs because they had enormous success at the smaller schools. And in coach K's case, he built a major program from a smaller school. So I think my ranking is valid, not just based on resource at a given school, but also by tenure. A 10th year coach making it to top 15 is a hell of an accomplishment. It should not be viewed as a slight.

MDABE80
02-25-2009, 04:08 PM
How can Mark Few rank above Jim Calhoun, even if UConn missed the tourney couple times in the last ten years? I also have a problem with Pitino not on the list.

More over, why do you trust Forbes in CBB coach ranking? If this is SI or ESPN, then the writer would be fired for excluding Calhoun in the top 10. To put Calipari, Few, Ryan and Barnes above Calhoun is ridiculous.

Few is probably in the top 15 range, not top 10, here is my ranking:

1. Coach K.
2. Roy Williams
3. Jim Calhoun
4. Billy Donovan
5. Tom Izzo
6. Rick Pitino
7. Bill Self
8. Ben Howland
9. John Calipari
10. Tom Creem

11. Rick Barnes
12. Bo Ryan
13. Bruce Pearl
14. Mark Few
15. Mike Mongomery


Read ZagNative's comments. It's a scoring system they used to determine who's on the list. GU has done what very few places have done. Few has 10 20 win seasons and has done the dance every year. Given the objective scoring system, Few came out no 8 as is defined in the article. SOme coaches didn't make it.

lothar98zag
02-25-2009, 04:45 PM
Read ZagNative's comments. It's a scoring system they used to determine who's on the list. GU has done what very few places have done. Few has 10 20 win seasons and has done the dance every year. Given the objective scoring system, Few came out no 8 as is defined in the article. SOme coaches didn't make it.
I'm not surprised people don't agree with the results (I don't), but I am a little surprised that people are ignoring how the ranking was done and then getting mad at it for the results it produced...

ZagLawGrad
02-25-2009, 05:13 PM
Hey math major. If Knight and Olson were still coaching (and justly proclaimed Top 10) Few STILL would have made this list (at #10 instead of #8).

Other than that, great point.



LOL. No doubt-----Few is definitely a Top 10'er. The guy has earned his stripes the old fashioned way.

TerpZag
02-25-2009, 08:52 PM
But Mark Few didn't start with nothing. He took over after Monson took the Zags to the Elite 8. This is his 10th year, I can argue that he hasn't been coaching long enough to get to the top 10. Sure, the other 14 guys have more resources, but how do you know they couldn't do what Few did in GU? Coach K built Duke to the most successful program in the country from nothing. Sure, Duke has more resources than GU now. But before coach K was there, Duke wasn't much better than GU. Coach K definitely did not take over a Duke team which went to the Elite 8 the previous year. Do you think if Few stays here till year 28 in his coaching career, that he'd win 3 national championships, 10 final fours? I don't think so.

It's true that most of the coaches on that list make their names at big time schools. But they got the big time school jobs because they had enormous success at the smaller schools. And in coach K's case, he built a major program from a smaller school. So I think my ranking is valid, not just based on resource at a given school, but also by tenure. A 10th year coach making it to top 15 is a hell of an accomplishment. It should not be viewed as a slight.

brian sun, what kind of revisionist history of college basketball is this? College basketball fans and fans of Duke basketball would be amazed at your demonstrated lack of knowledge of Duke basketball history.

For instance, Vic Bubas (W&L 213 – 67) was head basketball coach from 1960 through 1969 and this was his record:

1960, 17-11, (4th in ACC) ACC Champions, #18 final ranking, NCAA elite 8.

1961, 22-6, (3rd in ACC) #10 final ranking.

1962, 20-5, (2nd in ACC) #10 final ranking.

1963, 27-3, (1st in ACC) ACC Champions, #2 final ranking, NCAA Final Four.

1964, 26-5, (1st in ACC) ACC Champions, #3 final ranking, NCAA Final Four (2nd place)

1965, 20-5, (1st in ACC) #10 final ranking.

1966, 26-4, (1st in ACC) ACC Champions, #2 final ranking, NCAA Final Four.

1967, 18-9, (2nd in ACC) #19 final ranking.

1968, 22-6, (2nd in ACC) #10 final ranking, NIT Tournament (1-1 record).

1969, 15-13, (T3rd in ACC).

Vic Bubas had players like Art Heyman (National Player of the Year), Jeff Mullins, Bob Verga and Steve Vacendak. Duke had the best record in the country under Coach Bubas from 1961 through 1967.

Remember during this time period the NCAA Tournament included less than 25 teams and only the ACC Tournament champion went to the NCAA Tournament despite the team’s regular season record.


Does that look like a college basketball program that was nothing?


In addition, Bill Foster (W&L 113 – 64) coached Duke from 1975 through 1980. Under Foster, Duke won two ACC Tournament Championships, a regular season title and, of course, led Duke to the 1978 NCAA Final Four where they finished NCAA runner-up to Kentucky.

In his last season 1979-80, Foster led Duke to a No. 1 ranking for several weeks before an injury to Kenny Dennard sent Duke tumbling for a while. After Dennard returned late in the season, Duke won the 1980 ACC tournament, finished 14th in the AP poll, had a 24-9 season record, advanced to the Elite Eight including an upset of Kentucky in the Sweet 16 in Rupp Arena.

Bill Foster coached players like Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkel and Gene Banks.

If you wanted to looked farther back in Duke basketball history you could look to Harold Bradley and Eddie Cameron who led Duke to several conference championships during their careers.

Again, does that look like a college basketball program that was nothing?

Duke has had a great record under Mike Krzyzewski but their basketball program had a rich history well before Coach K arrived on the scene.

So brian sun, do you still believe that Duke wasn’t much better than Gonzaga before Coach K became their coach?