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odeasmcgu
02-22-2009, 05:51 PM
So we were having this discussion on the SMC board, as to whether GU will be better next year. I was just wondering what you guys think...

I am actually under the opinion GU will be better next year. If you look at it Bouldin, Gray, and Meech next year with improvement might be just as good, if not better than Pargo, Gray, and Bouldin this year.

Also, although I think Austin needs to work on his physical strength and mental toughness, he does possess a ton of basketball skill. Also I think Sacre will be better having sat this year, and actually getting a chance to learn the system.

I would agreee that the bench is a little light next season: really it is just Ira and like ten minutes from Foster right now, but it seems like Gibbs, Dower and Arop will be fine, if they can just give the starters a spell now and then.

Anyways, just thought I'd ask you guys.

DoMieD
02-22-2009, 05:55 PM
way better

zagfan16
02-22-2009, 05:55 PM
You forgot Gray/Micah off the bench this year. The talent is definately there to be just as good if not better. Losing Seniors always hurts but it usually just allows another player to show why they are on the team.

Reborn
02-22-2009, 06:05 PM
How can we compare next year's team to how good this year's team is until this season is over. We have no idea yet how good this year's team is. There are at least five games left.

I know we are graduating 5 Seniors. That is a lot of space and experience to fill. This years team has been building toward this year for 3 years now. There will be two and a half starters back next year. And two good players return off the bench. It will certainly be something to build on. I sincerely doubt that we will not be real good early in our out of conference games, so I hope Few doesn't schedule a lot of really tough away games next year. Let people develop a little. Overall, I see the Zags as rebuilding next year.

MississppiZag
02-22-2009, 06:16 PM
2008 Starting Lineup- Pargo, Bouldin, Downs, Daye, and Heytvelt.

2009 Starting Lineup- Meech, Gray, Bouldin, Daye, and Sacre.

Slight advantage to 2008, close call because I see Meech as the true PG we have needed for the past couple of yrs(I love JP, he is just more of a combo/scoring guard), with a year of experience, and learning the system.

2008 Bench- Ira, Gray, Meech, and Will Foster.

2009 Bench- Elias Harris, Bol Kong, Manny Arop, Grant Gibbs, Andy Poling, Sam Dower, and Will.

Huge advantage to 2009. More athleticism, speed, height, and all-around talent than I have ever seen in watching the Zags over the past 10 years. Manny and Kong will more than replace the departure of Micah. Poling, Dower, and Elias Harris will replace the departure of Ira and Heytvelt. Gibbs will be a good back-up for Meech.

The biggest problem in my eyes is we won't have a go-to-guy or consistent scorer at the 5, with the departure of Heytvelt. Sacre, Andy, and Dower will do it by committee, but if there was one person I wish wasn't leaving it would be Josh Heytvelt.

So while I love this team and look forward to them progressing and playing in the tourney, I will go ahead and say that next year's may be better all around. It'll have more depth and size, than this year's, but it may be lacking leadership from the seniors.

Like Reborn said get back to me after March, for a more clear-cut answer.

zag buddy
02-22-2009, 06:18 PM
Don't forget redshirt Poling. We have an very good group of recruits coming in. I think we will do quite well. I expect them to be a much more aggresive group.

J-Lo
02-22-2009, 06:26 PM
The biggest problem in my eyes is we won't have a go-to-guy or consistent scorer at the 5, with the departure of Heytvelt. Sacre, Andy, and Dower will do it by committee, but if there was one person I wish wasn't leaving it would be Josh Heytvelt.


I think I can only agree in principle. Last night Josh put up huge numbers and was pretty dominant inside. And we've certainly seen games throughout his career in which he has had similar performances. However, I wouldn't describe Josh as a "go-to-guy or consistent scorer at the 5." As we've seen time and again, he tends to float, play around the perimeter, settle for mid-range jumpers, etc. He's not the Batista/Turiaf/Violette/etc that Gonzaga has, from time to time, possessed.

What i really would have loved is to see Sacre and Josh on the court at the same time this year, but Sacre's injury thwarted my desires. I'm actually looking forward to having Sacre in at the 5 instead of Josh. I think that will give us a player who is willing to try to establish himself as a true interior presence. That will hopefully unclog the mid-range area a bit (with defenders being forced to focus down low) and open more shots for Daye and our new three-headed monster of Bouldin, Gray, and Meech.

JohnOGU
02-22-2009, 06:32 PM
Talent-wise we'll be a lot better next year. Lack of experience is the only issue.

CDC84
02-22-2009, 06:33 PM
It's really hard to project how good a team is going to be when it is adding so many new pieces. Coach Few has never had this many newcomers come into the program since he's taken over. The inexperience on next year's team is going to be overwhelming. Yes, guys like Bouldin, Daye, Gray and Goodson are good players, but they don't exist in a vacuum. They are going to be playing and interacting with 6 or 7 guys - several of them foreign kids - who haven't played a nanosecond of D-1 basketball. And if Sacre has to shut it down this year, you might as well consider him to be a newcomer as well since he has little D-1 experience and has been away from organized ball for so long. The veterans are going to be learning as much as the young cubs will. The team is going to take some time to meld.

roxdoc
02-22-2009, 06:48 PM
Next year's team, slightly more talent, much less experience. But IMO will the coaches/system, contrary to this year, guide the team to play at their talent level.

MickMick
02-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Much more scoring potential with the addition of Kong and Arop. Josh can score no doubt, but the Zags don't seem to get him consistently involved against top BCS competition. Additionally, I expect the rebounding to be better if for no other reason than the Zags are simply lousy at rebounding now and have no where to go but up. Similar to rebounding (and for the same reason), I expect the overall basketball IQ to improve as well.


With the addition of so many new pieces, I expect the Zags to be shaky at the start, but they may mesh by the end of the season. Perhaps enough to be better than the current edition of the Zags.

I expect Matt to take a huge leadership role and I believe he will be very successful in that endeavor.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-22-2009, 07:00 PM
I dont worry about next year. We dont rebuild anymore, we reload. We will have a good mix of experience to help offset the lack thereof.

If someone gave me the choice of picking GU or the rest of the league next year for conference supremacy, my money is squarely on GU.

There is some good young talent next year at the other schools.....santa clara, loyola, even pepperdine. St Mary's will be right there with UP but St Marys is still a 1 horse show, well 2 with Samhan, granted patty doesnt leave early, and UP will be tough with their returning cast. Once again I just think we will have way way too much talent on the floor compared to anyone else.

strikezag
02-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Before this year started, it was the collective assessment that this was the greatest collection of talent assembled at GU. The team hasn't performed during the season as we would have hoped, but that doesn't change the quality of the players. We lose Heytvelt, an NBA quality player, GU's first McD AA in Downs, a NBA quality point guard in Pargo, and Brown.

There will definitely be some talented players on the team next year. But to think that next year's team is going to be better seems rather delusional and polyannish.

zagfan16
02-22-2009, 07:33 PM
Before this year started, it was the collective assessment that this was the greatest collection of talent assembled at GU. The team hasn't performed during the season as we would have hoped, but that doesn't change the quality of the players. We lose Heytvelt, an NBA quality player, GU's first McD AA in Downs, a NBA quality point guard in Pargo, and Brown.

There will definitely be some talented players on the team next year. But to think that next year's team is going to be better seems rather delusional and polyannish.
Strikezag-while I agree that this year's team is extremely talented when you look at the potential and the chance that next year's team will also have potential NBA level players (Daye and Bouldin for sure). Plus redshirting is not going to hurt Sacre, Gibbs, and Poling. I believe that come WCC and tourney time this team will be a force. I really like that while we may be losing experience the players destined to replace them have been either along for this year's ride or played against high level competition in some capacity. There will be alot of scoring and a MAN on the block to rebound and score some down low. The only real question is who is going to be the Pendo/Micah player that does the dirty work. If that player shows himself next year the team will excel imo.

Edited to add: I am not knocking Josh as this year's big man, he has done a great job. I just believe in having a true big. Sacre was a HUGE loss to this year's team and if he had been healthy all year I don't believe there would be a comparison between this year and next because we would have at least two less losses and be ranked in the top ten.

gamagin
02-22-2009, 07:43 PM
it is now. The team that develops into next year is, well, a whole season and a whole year away, just to catch up to this one, which is not yet finished.

I like our chances still with this year's team, fwiw. Next year's team will be lucky, indeed, if they can get this far by this time when it is their turn.

Go this year's Zags ! Show next year's team what it is like to be champions !

Zaghuatanejo
02-22-2009, 07:56 PM
it is now. The team that develops into next year is, well, a whole season and a whole year away, just to catch up to this one, which is not yet finished.

I like our chances still with this year's team, fwiw. Next year's team will be lucky, indeed, if they can get this far by this time when it is their turn.

Go this year's Zags ! Show next year's team what it is like to be champions !

I'm with you. Next year's team will be great in its own right, but we need to appreciate what we have this year. One goal down (WCC Champs), more to come.

zagster318
02-22-2009, 08:29 PM
Honestly, I think next year's team will look similar to this year's Wake Forest team. Because of overall talent, they should rack up some huge wins. However, because of the youth factor, I wouldn't be surprised to see some inexplicable losses. Overall, I would expect a 23-7 or 22-8 record, along with a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAAs and another WCC regular season championship. Obviously, this is pure conjecture.

Random question...is Mills going to jump to the NBA after this year? I hope so...

JohnOGU
02-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Honestly, I think next year's team will look similar to this year's Wake Forest team. Because of overall talent, they should rack up some huge wins. However, because of the youth factor, I wouldn't be surprised to see some inexplicable losses. Overall, I would expect a 23-7 or 22-8 record, along with a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAAs and another WCC regular season championship. Obviously, this is pure conjecture.


Agreed.

WallaWallaZag
02-22-2009, 11:15 PM
imo - how good next year's team can be is directly correlated with how many pounds austin daye puts on during the offseason =). getting some more beef on poling wouldn't hurt either...

Birddog
02-23-2009, 03:51 AM
Is it just me? I don't think it is, because I sense by Gamagin's tone that his feelings are similar to mine. Threads like this, at this time of year, are like sitting in the lobby of the nursing home with the wife/husband on life support after the MD issues a terminal verdict, and all the while speculating that the next wife/husband will be better/worse than the current one. It's distasteful to say the least.

Give it a break, threads like this will be great filler (and welcome) for the off season, but not now, Just my $.02

EngineerZag
02-23-2009, 05:00 AM
I don't know if I agree with that starting lineup - it's possible that Bouldin will start at the 2 and Gray will still come off the bench. I sure hope so because Bouldin is wayyy better at the 2 than the 3. I'm not sure who would start at the 3, maybe one of the new guys.

Josh is going to be a bigger loss than people give credit for. Micah will be too, especially with what he's bringing lately. We know that Bouldin, Gray, and Meech will be good next year, the question is, how will Sacre fare as the starting big man (will he become a true offensive threat down low), and how will Poling and Dower and the other newcomers look? Next year could be great, or it could be actually worse than this year's team. There are so many unknowns that it's going to be hard to say until the first few nonconference "test" games next season have been played.

ExtremeJim
02-23-2009, 05:50 AM
...like sitting in the lobby of the nursing home with the wife/husband on life support after the MD issues a terminal verdict, and all the while speculating that the next wife/husband will be better/worse than the current one.

It's the same spouse, Bird. They're just discussing whether after life-saving heart, lung, kidney, liver, and pancreas transplants are all done in the off-season, she'll still be able get all the housework done, perform like a Marakhesh harem-girl in the sack, get out and earn enough to support them in the manner they've grown accustomed, and have a better overall attitude.

This is what fans do.

hondo46
02-23-2009, 06:25 AM
I'm with B-dog here.
How can some say that this years team has not performed as we had hoped? Give me a break! In a year that was supposed to be a very good year for the WCC our Zags are 12-0. Our Zag demolished the WSU Cougs who just beat UCLA (best Coug kicking I've seen in 50 years). Our Zags won the Old Spice Classic, swept Tennessee with neither game west of the Mississippi. We lost a heart breaker to UConn due to an unlikely last second desperation shot in regulation time. We swept a very good St. Mary's team in league play. We swept a very good Portland team in league play. I could go on, it's been a great year with more to come.
Please don't use the pronoun "we" when writing of your unrealistic expectations. This current team has done a fantastic job. As coach Few has said we are not UNC or Duke. Let's keep all this in perspective.

theirishzag03
02-23-2009, 08:08 AM
How many posters who claim GU will be better next year will think the same way if the Zags make a run to the Elite 8 or Final Four THIS YEAR???

This year's team is a combined 18 points from being 25-1. We lost to UConn, as mentioned on a desperation 3 when they were full strength.

So, before we rush to compare a factual team to a perceptual one lets wait and see where this one finishes up. We do not even know who the ZAGS coach will be next year:lmao:

BobZag
02-23-2009, 08:57 AM
Just wait till you all see the 2012 Zags with sophomore Brett Kingma leading the way!

johnwzag
02-23-2009, 09:08 AM
Thread should be delayed to season is over.

BobZag
02-23-2009, 09:22 AM
Thread should be delayed to season is over.

I dunno, jwz. When Kingma is a senior in 2014 we could be looking at a Stephen Curry II. Some of us might be dead of old age, but still, the beat goes on.

Colbyspapa
02-23-2009, 10:36 AM
I think we will miss Josh running the floor. It is rare to have a big man run the way he does. I believe next years team will play a lot different. More banging down low, maybe we will reinstitute the pass from the high post to the block. 4-5 or 5-4. Still should have good D, but losing Micah and Josh will be tough. Who on the bench next year is the caliber of Micah? Maybe Elias Harris??? What do you think?

Zag365
02-23-2009, 10:39 AM
Thread should be delayed to season is over.

Absolutely!

GoZags
02-23-2009, 10:52 AM
It's really hard to project how good a team is going to be when it is adding so many new pieces. Coach Few has never had this many newcomers come into the program since he's taken over. The inexperience on next year's team is going to be overwhelming. Yes, guys like Bouldin, Daye, Gray and Goodson are good players, but they don't exist in a vacuum. They are going to be playing and interacting with 6 or 7 guys - several of them foreign kids - who haven't played a nanosecond of D-1 basketball. And if Sacre has to shut it down this year, you might as well consider him to be a newcomer as well since he has little D-1 experience and has been away from organized ball for so long. The veterans are going to be learning as much as the young cubs will. The team is going to take some time to meld.

Except in '00/'01 -- when there were 7 newcomers in the rotation. In addition, a significant portion of that season was played with only 2 guys who'd seen action in a Gonzaga uniform before. The result? A Sweet 16 loss to Michigan State.

theirishzag03
02-23-2009, 11:21 AM
Just wait till you all see the 2012 Zags with sophomore Brett Kingma leading the way!


Who will be the coach in 2012??? Will it still be Few? Or, will it be the guy who took over for him (Rice) I assume, OR a coach who took over for Rice because he could not live up to all of the expectations:confused: :p

None of the players coming in matter! As long as Few sticks around, we won't be Duke or UNC or Kentucky, BUT we will still be dancing in March and contending for WCC crowns and that should make us all very happy!

johnwzag
02-23-2009, 12:56 PM
I dunno, jwz. When Kingma is a senior in 2014 we could be looking at a Stephen Curry II. Some of us might be dead of old age, but still, the beat goes on.

I guess I am all about the current year. I fall in love with the players every year. I wanted Ammo to stay, never wanted to see DR go even though it was his time. Every March, after the tourney, I get excited about the new players.

It isnt wrong to look ahead. Personally though - I try just can't. It is a bad omen for me. Every year brings new promising hope and fun. To be honest, I have not looked ahead a Kingma. I can't.

lothar98zag
02-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Just wait till you all see the 2012 Zags with sophomore Brett Kingma leading the way!
They'll be good then, no doubt, but not nearly as good as the team will be in 2025 w/ Lothar Jr starting at PG...

BobZag
02-23-2009, 02:08 PM
They'll be good then, no doubt, but not nearly as good as the team will be in 2025 w/ Lothar Jr starting at PG...

We will all bring cowbells to games to honor his greatness. :D

bigblahla
02-23-2009, 02:25 PM
I think we will miss Josh running the floor. It is rare to have a big man run the way he does. I believe next years team will play a lot different. More banging down low, maybe we will reinstitute the pass from the high post to the block. 4-5 or 5-4. Still should have good D, but losing Micah and Josh will be tough. Who on the bench next year is the caliber of Micah? Maybe Elias Harris??? What do you think?


If Rob's foot heals correctly his ability to move up and down the court is going to surprise some folks.

His offensive skill set will continue to improve. To me he exibited a strong defensive presence guarding the basket with improved lateral movement. He showed resistance to head fakes and held his ground until the offensive player made his move. Blocked out and rebounded and he did this while being almost immovable in the paint. A big plus for this year or next years team.

I will enjoy each and every moment that's left in the season, can't wait to get to Vegas.

As far as next year goes that's next year, not to worry cause.....

It's Here and Now Baby! :D

Go!! Zags!!!

Das Zagger
02-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Losing 5 seniors, no matter who they are, is going to hurt any team. I guess we find out how good this team will be by this fall.

BobZag
02-23-2009, 02:57 PM
Maui = Trial by fire.

lothar98zag
02-23-2009, 03:16 PM
Maui = Trial by fire.
luau fire?

MississppiZag
02-23-2009, 03:25 PM
Maui is not going to be what it was this year. Cincinatti and Wisconsin, and maybe Vandy will be the only good teams. We will likely be the highest ranked team, which is an obvious assumption as the current season is still going, and Maui is over 8 months away.:)

bigblahla
02-23-2009, 03:31 PM
luau fire?

Kalua pig No Ka Oi! Broke da mouth, bigblahla.

Go!! Zags!!!

BobZag
02-23-2009, 04:16 PM
It would still be prestigeous to win it, though. The young Zags need all the confidence they can get.

MississppiZag
02-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Oh, I completely agree. It would be a huge confidence boost and get the ball rolling for the young freshmen.

Luckily there isn't a UNC, Texas, or Notre Dame in that mixture. It will be challenging and very tough to win, but I see us getting that second preseason tourney championship in a row.;) Maybe we get Chaminade in the first round.

Is Maui like the Old Spice, where we won't know the final and complete schedule until August?

BobZag
02-23-2009, 05:01 PM
Oh, I completely agree. It would be a huge confidence boost and get the ball rolling for the young freshmen.

Luckily there isn't a UNC, Texas, or Notre Dame in that mixture. It will be challenging and very tough to win, but I see us getting that second preseason tourney championship in a row.;) Maybe we get Chaminade in the first round.

Is Maui like the Old Spice, where we won't know the final and complete schedule until August?

Yes it is. Brackets/Matchups not revealed until late summer.

Zag79
02-23-2009, 07:25 PM
Before this year started, it was the collective assessment that this was the greatest collection of talent assembled at GU. The team hasn't performed during the season as we would have hoped, but that doesn't change the quality of the players. We lose Heytvelt, an NBA quality player, GU's first McD AA in Downs, a NBA quality point guard in Pargo, and Brown.

There will definitely be some talented players on the team next year. But to think that next year's team is going to be better seems rather delusional and polyannish.

great post for the most part! as the season unwinds, alot of the "bad losses" we took are turining out to lose the head scratching part. memphis #4, and every team we lost to should/could be dancing with us in march. i dont think the season was anything but what i expected, maybe better since i wasnt positive on the 14-0 wcc deal we might get. but i fully agree on the two teams, this years team clobbers next years team IMO. no josh, well there goes the leading scorer and rebounder. jeremy, like him or not hes on of the best guards to play at GU and is much better than meech will be next year. micah is a starter and should be so losing his length, d and shooting will hurt. bouldin and gray a re great, but are they consistent enough? we'll find out but im putting my $ on this edition in comparison.

jim77
02-24-2009, 01:05 AM
Is it just me? I don't think it is, because I sense by Gamagin's tone that his feelings are similar to mine. Threads like this, at this time of year, are like sitting in the lobby of the nursing home with the wife/husband on life support after the MD issues a terminal verdict, and all the while speculating that the next wife/husband will be better/worse than the current one. It's distasteful to say the least.

Give it a break, threads like this will be great filler (and welcome) for the off season, but not now, Just my $.02

Thanx Dog for some reality. I'm still kinda interested in how this team is going to fair. I'll worry about next year's team about Nov.

I still think this team is capable of going as far as the 99 team...there clearly is NO dominate team this year. Its up for grabs.

cjm720
02-24-2009, 07:03 AM
Losing 5 seniors, no matter who they are, is going to hurt any team. I guess we find out how good this team will be by this fall.

Agreed 100%. That said, I would be very suprised if our rebounding, both offenseive and defensive, was not improved next year. We'll have multiple options in the post, which will open up the rest of the court. We will be a different team, and time will tell next year's team is better than this year. Another 20+ season is a given.

The future is now and later...I could talk recruiting day and night.

GO ZAGS!!!!

bigparb
02-24-2009, 08:28 AM
Next year will be interesting to say the least......yes 8 guys will be young and inexperienced(Sacre, Gibbs, Poling, KONG, Arop, Dower, Harris, Olynyck), BUT we will be led by a senior in Bouldin and two juniors in Gray and Daye, and a PG who appears to be as natural a leader as any Zag I've seen over the last 10 years, in Meech. (BTW, I assume Foster is transferring--this is based on absolutely zero insider info)

I'm cautiously optimistic about next year and look forward to seeing the big 3 of Bouldin, Gray and Daye combine for 50+ a night......

I think the key for next year or should I say, the difference in us being a team that is happy to get into the top 25 versus a team that will be challenging to get into the top 10, is our BIGS......SACRE, POLING, DOWER......If these guys are ready to play, we'll be fine.

BTW--I think Sacre runs the floor better than Josh (would love to see him learn to not bring the ball "down" under the hoop---I'd have him got thru drills all summer holding a medicine ball over his head)......and I think Poling could be a major suprise (in the exhibition game he showed high BBall IQ and a nose for the ball off the glass, IMO)......will have to see Dower in a GU uni before can make judgement....

webspinnre
02-24-2009, 11:51 AM
Why are we talking about next year? We'll have months to do that after the season is over. The future is now!