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View Full Version : 3 point FG percentage defense as of 2/18



CDC84
02-18-2009, 12:59 PM
Gonzaga is now defending the 3 point line at 34.8%, which is ranked at 199th in the country.

It's a good thing they continue to be #1 in the country in 2 point field goal percentage defense:

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Gonzaga

LongIslandZagFan
02-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Gonzaga is now defending the 3 point line at 34.8%, which is ranked at 199th in the country.

It's a good thing they continue to be #1 in the country in 2 point field goal percentage defense:

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Gonzaga


Question. Not that I think this is the answer, just shooting for dialog here. Do you think that the reason the 3pt% is so high is because its is all we are allowing teams to shoot? Conversely, would our FG% suffer if we focused on the 3? Final note... keep in mind that 3pt shooting is rolled into fg%.

CDC84
02-18-2009, 01:37 PM
All I know is that the 3 point defense has gotten progressively worse over the last month. 3 out of the last 4 opponents have nailed the Zags for 11 or more 3 pointers, and the last 6 opponents have shot 42.4% from behind the arc. The perimeter defense just isn't as good as it was earlier in the year - not only with defending the 3 point line, but also containing the bounce.

rennis
02-18-2009, 01:56 PM
All I know is that the 3 point defense has gotten progressively worse over the last month. 3 out of the last 4 opponents have nailed the Zags for 11 or more 3 pointers, and the last 6 opponents have shot 42.4% from behind the arc.

I think the guards are not containing the bounce like they were earlier in the season. Especially...I hate to say this...Pargo. They get sucked into the lane, and this leads to kick outs.

Agreed...every game I watch a guard (whether it be Pargo, Gray, Bouldin, you name it) get sucked unneccesarily into the lane...trust those shot blockers in the paint guys! If that perimiter defender gets past you, he's got a lot more to deal with...stay on your man on the perimeter.

cjm720
02-18-2009, 02:07 PM
Agreed...every game I watch a guard (whether it be Pargo, Gray, Bouldin, you name it) get sucked unneccesarily into the lane...trust those shot blockers in the paint guys! If that perimiter defender gets past you, he's got a lot more to deal with...stay on your man on the perimeter.

I'd like to see stats of our 3 pt. defense % vs. minutes in zone defense. I bet there's a high correlation.

LIZF, in looking at Pomeroy's page, 2 pt. FG% is separate from the 3 pt. FG%. Our effective defensive FG% is 43.8%, which is ranked 8th in the country...given the 199 rank in 3 pt. defense, that's quite spectacular!

gamagin
02-18-2009, 02:26 PM
given the trays we've seen in the past several games by our opponents, there has to be some sort of balance to the fact that we've run up against some shooters who seem to reach their career peaks against only us.

Otherwise, they are good shooters. But against us, they have had great games. We seem to inspire that in even our weakest teams.

that said, there is a definite need to clamp down on the hot hand. We are not famous for doing that. Yet. And leaving them open too often to get a good look and shoot from their favorite spots seems to encourge them.

malmer7
02-18-2009, 02:41 PM
given the trays we've seen in the past several games by our opponents, there has to be some sort of balance to the fact that we've run up against some shooters who seem to reach their career peaks against only us.

Otherwise, they are good shooters. But against us, they have had great games. We seem to inspire that in even our weakest teams.

that said, there is a definite need to clamp down on the hot hand. We are not famous for doing that. Yet. And leaving them open too often to get a good look and shoot from their favorite spots seems to encourge them.

i'm glad you saved it with that last line - because i see the same thing as you, i just tend to believe they hit that peak because we leave them so open.
now - that being said, it still seems like some guys get abnormally hot from outside against us even with a hand in their face (patty mills).
i think the problem is that we leave shooters open, they make one or two, get that confidence flowing to where they feel like they can't miss, no matter who's in their face - that's what i saw in the USF game anyways.

gamagin
02-18-2009, 02:51 PM
<< now - that being said, it still seems like some guys get abnormally hot from outside against us even with a hand in their face (patty mills).>>

there are those who disagree on this.

My view & angle showed Patty got many open looks. even unattended open shots. granted he's great. granted he doesn't take but a millisecond to set up. we didn't buttonhole him enough.

those shots of patty's that may have appeared to be with someone in front of him too often, imo, were the kinds I suspect you saw vs usf: one of ours running towards the shooter, but being too far away, and thus, not getting there in time to do anything but leap up short and late. AFTER the shooter set and was ready for the shot. Not before or during as is require for good D, imo.

The other fact of life is some of these guys literally can shoot from left or center field and still be damaging, when on a roll.

That you can't coach against. meaning a guy is going to get those shots now and again.

BUT. But sticking to a hot hand, well, I posit we can do something about that if only we will.

Zag365
02-18-2009, 03:07 PM
i think the problem is that we leave shooters open, they make one or two, get that confidence flowing to where they feel like they can't miss, no matter who's in their face - that's what i saw in the USF game anyways.

Even my 15-year-old can see this. He can't stand it. "Dad, how come we keep letting them have wide open threes? This is stupid. Nooooo, don't let them have another one . . . ."

Reborn
02-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Zags have played more Zone in the last 4 games. And we have had a tendency to stay in the zone too long. Earlier in the year the Zags were mixing defenses up continuously tryin to keep opponents off balance. We are becoming more and more predictable. And the game we were the most predictable was Memphis, and played Zone way too long.

I also believe there are, and there always has been, very good three point shooters in the WCC. The one thing about smaller conferences is that they do have good 3 pt shooters. There are a ton of 3 pt shooters in America. Many of them seem to land in the WCC. Teams like Portland, San Francisco, Loyola Marymount and maybe Pepperdine are not that athletic nor big. But they all have great 3 pt shooters. Heck. Portland has about 4 of them, and we've played them twice already.

BobZag
02-18-2009, 04:02 PM
All I know is that the 3 point defense has gotten progressively worse over the last month. 3 out of the last 4 opponents have nailed the Zags for 11 or more 3 pointers, and the last 6 opponents have shot 42.4% from behind the arc. The perimeter defense just isn't as good as it was earlier in the year - not only with defending the 3 point line, but also containing the bounce.

This won't do. It needs to stop. Simple as that.

lothar98zag
02-18-2009, 04:43 PM
I'd like to see stats of our 3 pt. defense % vs. minutes in zone defense. I bet there's a high correlation.

LIZF, in looking at Pomeroy's page, 2 pt. FG% is separate from the 3 pt. FG%. Our effective defensive FG% is 43.8%, which is ranked 8th in the country...given the 199 rank in 3 pt. defense, that's quite spectacular!
#8 in eFG&#37; when we all know they can do better.

(as long as they don't get worse) I'll take it.

Zag79
02-18-2009, 05:07 PM
interesting topic, as im a huge fan of few mixing it up more as the game goes on. i dont mind the zone against certain teams and players, i fully understand hoops and its concepts. BUT, against teams that are much less athletic than us and really have no chance at winning UNLESS they hit mad threes play man! fews theory that we werent athletic enough, well i agreed in the late 90s. but the latest zag teams have plenty of athleticism to run man, few chooses not to. start out in zone, and if they get going from three switch to man. switch it up often to confuse them. no one can argue its too damn easy to shoot 3s against us and theres no excuse. its beyond the players now as we have the same issue regardless of the name on the back of the jersey.

siliconzag
02-18-2009, 05:48 PM
Too little too late. Good defense is played with the feet, not with harassing hands. If the ball has left the shooters hand, and they have a clean look and launch a bee bee, the ball doesn't care that the defender's hand is in the shooter's face after it is well on the way to the basket. I think we over collapse at times and this leads to all these wide open looks. True we close quickly to harass the shooter, but the ball is half way to the basket by the time the hand arrives. We get torched over and over. Only AJ Price's three to tie the U Conn game was tightly defended.

Sili

edcasey
02-18-2009, 07:01 PM
last time I checked good defense meant you kept your opponent from scoring 1 fewer point than your team did and we have done a pretty good job of that so far this year. Top that cup of "pollyanna ice cream" off with some whipping cream of being ranked #8 in the COUNTRY for overall shooting percentage...I think we are doing a pretty doggone good job

I would LOVE to see a stat that shows first half vs second half shooting percentages for our team.

Why?
My take is the game plan is generally written to affect a person from the other team based upon their skills and tendencies. Sometimes, especially when you are the TARGET, teams step up and can hit shots that normally they dont hit......then we adjust and second half we tend to shut down the hot shooters making the opponent go to identified weakness

Several games this year that occured......tennessee where the young man could not miss comes to mind but second half adjustments shut him down........

So my educated guess is our second half defensive numbers are better in all but memphis game.......

VinnyZag
02-18-2009, 07:16 PM
If they DIDN'T help off shooters, people would be on here complaining about giving up wide-open drives.


I was always coached to help on D when the ball goes into the post or into the lane on a dribble-drive. So I have no problem with it.

My one gripe is, be aware of who you're helping off of. It's OK to leave some guys, not so much some others (think Patty Mills and Tyreke Evans).

bballbeachbum
02-19-2009, 08:00 AM
My one gripe is, be aware of who you're helping off of. It's OK to leave some guys, not so much some others (think Patty Mills and Tyreke Evans).

I see the same thing. If we can control the bounce better without needing help, that would help a lot I think, and we can do this. Matt, Micah, Meech are all very capable of this, and Jeremy and Steven are both pretty good at it too, imo. And as others suggest, I would like to know the 1st half vs. 2nd half stats on this; definitely seems like we clamp down better in the second half, but I have no facts to support that. Also would like to know the % difference when we play zone vs. man.

johnwzag
02-19-2009, 08:23 AM
Question. Not that I think this is the answer, just shooting for dialog here. Do you think that the reason the 3pt% is so high is because its is all we are allowing teams to shoot? Conversely, would our FG% suffer if we focused on the 3? Final note... keep in mind that 3pt shooting is rolled into fg%.


Very good question. A lot of games I have watched, that is the case. Some teams have been very very hot with those shots.

Zagsker
02-19-2009, 09:03 AM
One of the most frustrating games this year was last week at St. Marys down the stretch when we were starting to pull away...I said to myself "No 3's" but in the back of my head I knew what was coming....and than BANG..hit the 3:mad:

Zagsker
02-19-2009, 09:13 AM
Within WCC play we are letting teams shoot an average of 22.4 3's a game and they shoot a whopping .38%:(

Zag79
02-19-2009, 11:48 PM
man to man, and that defense was tight. more of it please! the staring line up tonight is how we go deep in march, period.

bullzag23
02-20-2009, 07:29 AM
Our 3pt FG&#37; Defense is now down to #188(a drop of 11!) at 34.5%. Let's hope we can continue this downward trend with Pepperdine coming into town tomorrow night.

Edit: Just checked the overall list, and we're ahead of: UCLA, Ohio State, Florida, WSU(???), Utah, Utah State. Here's something a little crazy, Oregon at #341(out of 344) at 40.1% allowed. Ouch