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NanookZag
02-17-2009, 03:03 PM
According to ESPN, the 7 foot frosh who last played for the Tar Heels on Nov. 18 before a broken left wrist could return as early as Wednesday. Coach Williams said Zeller wants to help contend for a national championship. FYI, Sacre last played against the Cougs on 12/10.

BobZag
02-17-2009, 03:06 PM
The wrist isn't weight-bearing like a foot is. Rob and the staff will decide but that foot needs to be absolutely 100% healed.

lothar98zag
02-17-2009, 03:11 PM
According to ESPN, the 7 foot frosh who last played for the Tar Heels on Nov. 18 before a broken left wrist could return as early as Wednesday. Coach Williams said Zeller wants to help contend for a national championship. FYI, Sacre last played against the Cougs on 12/10.
Not sure what this has to with Sacre?

:confused:

Does Zeller run, cut, and jump using his wrists?

Zag79
02-17-2009, 03:44 PM
our new recruit!

http://www.ballet.co.uk/images/renegade/rt_rumble_basketball_hand_stand_675.jpg

dnj116
02-17-2009, 05:00 PM
Not sure what this has to with Sacre?

To show that if UNC is willing to burn their player's red shirt for a couple weeks worth of play that its worth considering for us and Sacre.

Agree with BZ though that if he decides to come back it'd better be 100%

JPtheBeasta
02-17-2009, 05:20 PM
"Not sure what this has to with Sacre?



Does Zeller run, cut, and jump using his wrists?"

I took the premise of the original post to be that there is a precedent of someone getting injured around the same time as Sacre, making a potential sacrifice, and coming back late in the season to help his team make a run. I'm all for Sacre's return if A) He's 100% healthy, like BZ (and others) mentioned B)Sacre is 100% in favor of returning this year and helping the team out C)the staff thinks he can contribute and be productive in such capacity.
There are no guarantees in this world, and this year might be the chance to make a deep run in the tournament. That said, I would hate for Sacre to feel pressured to play, or to be brought back irresponsibly or without full disclosure of his options. In a purely selfish way I want him to play because I don't think Daye or Ira! can help their team in the same way Sacre can. Daye just doesn't have the physical presence to defend the stronger guys or keep them off the boards, or the toughness to make up for it. Ira! just isn't tall enough. I thought Will might be able to help fill this role but Few and Co. apparently don't (I will defer to them and accept their reasoning as to why this is the case). This would allow Austin to play the 3-spot, a situation that many on this board have been salivating over.
The down side of Sacre's return would obviously be losing a year on the other end. The rebuttal to that is that nobody knows if we will need him as much down the road as we need him now. Do we need him now? I think so, but that is definitely open for debate...

kitzbuel
02-17-2009, 06:27 PM
After watching Josh struggle with his conditioning for a good couple of months after he came back from his foot injury last year, I do not have any expectations of Rob should he even make it back.

He will at best be playing 3-5 minutes a game for the first 5 or 6 games is he is back this year. Perhaps those minutes can be well placed, but don't count on him being a contributor immediatly upon his return. It won't happen.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-17-2009, 07:13 PM
kitz has this figured out......he has to get into "game shape" which will take a while. I am on the fence about his return, however I am hoping the coaching and trainers make the right call, which im sure they will.

Shanachie
02-17-2009, 07:58 PM
After watching Josh struggle with his conditioning for a good couple of months after he came back from his foot injury last year, I do not have any expectations of Rob should he even make it back.

He will at best be playing 3-5 minutes a game for the first 5 or 6 games is he is back this year. Perhaps those minutes can be well placed, but don't count on him being a contributor immediatly upon his return. It won't happen.


No argument with your general premise, but Heytvelt actually played 15 minutes in his first game back last year, and a minimum of 20 in the following six games. Point well taken, though. If Rob comes back, it's not clear how effective he'll be.

theirishzag03
02-17-2009, 09:33 PM
Before the injury he wasn't even getting 9 minutes a game and many posters feel based off of those contributions we would be undefeated had he not been hurt. It won't take long to get in game shape to play 7-8 minutes a game. This is also a perfect part of the schedule to try.

I don't know if I would go that far, BUT he was surely a PIECE of the puzzle. No matter how small any particular piece to a puzzle is you still need ALL of them to finish it.

Bogozags
02-18-2009, 04:36 AM
Not sure his presence will be a positive difference. We lack rebounding and will he make the difference on the boards? I don't think you take his year this year for what seven or eight games? Save him for next year and let him totally rehab and get into great shape just like Josh did this year! Don't see Rob being a positive difference that can change the course of the game!

We have Foster and I liked the line up when Foster and Josh were in there together! Really confused as to why Foster didn't play at all against USF? Maybe I am not seeing the same things but think Foster, Josh, Daye, Downs and Bouldin would be an interesting match-up for USF!

Your thoughts...

JAGzag
02-18-2009, 06:32 AM
kitz has this figured out......he has to get into "game shape" which will take a while. I am on the fence about his return, however I am hoping the coaching and trainers make the right call, which im sure they will.

Don't think we're comparing JH with Rob. JH was a "missing piece" of an effective offense and was relied upon early to make an immediate impact. Rob, on the other hand, is a 7 ft banger that adds muscle on the inside, takes pressure off JH and allows Few more options in terms of rotation. Game shape is important, but not as important as it might have been for JH.

DixieZag
02-18-2009, 07:28 AM
The entire question is premised upon information that none of us (at least none that have "official" knowledge) have shared and that is -- what is the state of his foot? Has he been practicing? Can he run unhindered? -- We simply do not know. I really believe that if he was ready to play, he would be in the line up, the fact that he isn't speaks volumes to me. It says to me that A. He is still hurt enough that he would not have a positive impact and B. He is still weak enough that he could risk injuring the ankle/foot even more severely. I think Coach sees the weaknesses that this team has, that a hard playing Rob would help, but as of right now, there is no such thing as a hard playing Rob to put in there. Am I wrong?

CDC84
02-18-2009, 07:53 AM
The Zeller situation is also different from Sacre in that he's a freshman (Sacre is a sophomore) on a team (UNC) that has a real shot at winning the national title.

gamagin
02-18-2009, 07:53 AM
the longer Sacre stays away, the more mythical become his powers and abilities and contributions to this team.

By the time he does shows up, he'll be wearing a cape & be accompanied by an adoring fan named Jimmy Olsen.

Beware false idols.

GoZags
02-18-2009, 07:59 AM
Oh, I don't know about the cape and Jimmy Olsen, but I always thought (and still feel) that Rob has the potential to be a good contributor.

http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?ra_key=1437

Also, let's not forget that he's not exactly a stranger to the Zags. He's had over a season of playing/practicing with every Zag (except Meech).

Again, if he's healthy -- it is my belief he could help.

CanadZag
02-18-2009, 09:25 AM
the longer Sacre stays away, the more mythical become his powers and abilities and contributions to this team.

By the time he does shows up, he'll be wearing a cape & be accompanied by an adoring fan named Jimmy Olsen.

Beware false idols.

Agreed. Sacre would add depth, 5 fouls to give, toughness, and grit to the team- but only for 10 minutes a game.

There aren't more minutes for him than that. Not this year. To have the impact that some on this board suggest he will have would require him coming in and playing 30+ plus minutes at the 5-spot so Josh and Austin can shift to the 3- and 4- is completely unrealistic.

He would have an impact, don't get me wrong, but the marginal impact of the #7 or 8 guy on your depth chart does not change our teams probable (as it looks right now, all things considered) finish from a first-or-second round exit to a FF appearance.

His absence has been impacted the team, but some of suggestions I've read on here about where we'd be with him healthy all year are too much.

Get 100% Rob. Then decide what you want to do. I've seen from experience too many times that when someone comes back too early for the team's sake, it usually ends up hurting everyone.

He's going to be a huge piece on this program going forward--- regardless of what he contributes the rest of this year.

Hextall7388
02-18-2009, 09:42 AM
I'm torn on the issue of bringing Rob back.

For those who feel he would not make a significant contribution, I think you may have lost sight of how slim the margin is sometimes between winning and losing a game. I take issue with those that dismiss the 5 or 10 minutes that Sacre could contribute as being a "minor contribution". People say football is a game of inches, well, I'm not sure if there is a similar saying in basketball, but anyone who has watched a game knows that the difference between winning and losing can come down to a rebound, a free throw, a foul or a even a timeout (Chris Webber). Think back to how close we were to a FF birth when the UCLA disaster struck.

Can Sacre pull down a key rebound? Can he hit an important free throw? Can he give Josh and/or Austin a breather to keep them fresh for the 4th quarter so that they can pull down a key rebound or hit an important free throw? I come up with a yes to all of these questions.

To me, it is not a question of Foster or Sacre. I think we will need both to make a run in March. In March the Zags will face teams that dress true 4's and 5's, not the WCC 6'6 210 pound version of the power forward. There is sufficient evidence to show us that Austin struggles against physical 4's, and often times will get himself into early foul trouble. Ira can compete physically with most of the 4's in the WCC, but it is asking way too much to have him defend players that are 4-6 inches taller,outweigh him by 20-40 pounds and have skill. I'm sure none of us want to see another UConn situation where we are forced to use Ira to cover a guy like Thabeet. Having both Foster and Sacre available would give Few more bench depth to work with, and could be key if Austin and/or Josh were to get into foul trouble in March. Josh is a key part of our offense this year, and it will be asking a lot of him to defend guys like Thabeet, Griffen, Hansborough, or Blair for 30+ minutes on the defensive end, stay out of foul trouble and manage to save enough energy to be a factor in the 4th quarter. He will need help.

GoZags
02-18-2009, 09:55 AM
I'm torn on the issue of bringing Rob back.

For those who feel he would not make a significant contribution, I think you may have lost sight of how slim the margin is sometimes between winning and losing a game. I take issue with those that dismiss the 5 or 10 minutes that Sacre could contribute as being a "minor contribution". People say football is a game of inches, well, I'm not sure if there is a similar saying in basketball, but anyone who has watched a game knows that the difference between winning and losing can come down to a rebound, a free throw, a foul or a even a timeout (Chris Webber). Think back to how close we were to a FF birth when the UCLA disaster struck.

Can Sacre pull down a key rebound? Can he hit an important free throw? Can he give Josh and/or Austin a breather to keep them fresh for the 4th quarter so that they can pull down a key rebound or hit an important free throw? I come up with a yes to all of these questions.

To me, it is not a question of Foster or Sacre. I think we will need both to make a run in March. In March the Zags will face teams that dress true 4's and 5's, not the WCC 6'6 210 pound version of the power forward. There is sufficient evidence to show us that Austin struggles against physical 4's, and often times will get himself into early foul trouble. Ira can compete physically with most of the 4's in the WCC, but it is asking way too much to have him defend players that are 4-6 inches taller,outweigh him by 20-40 pounds and have skill. I'm sure none of us want to see another UConn situation where we are forced to use Ira to cover a guy like Thabeet. Having both Foster and Sacre available would give Few more bench depth to work with, and could be key if Austin and/or Josh were to get into foul trouble in March. Josh is a key part of our offense this year, and it will be asking a lot of him to defend guys like Thabeet, Griffen, Hansborough, or Blair for 30+ minutes on the defensive end, stay out of foul trouble and manage to save enough energy to be a factor in the 4th quarter. He will need help.

Bingo. Nice 100th post, btw.

GonzagaLove
02-18-2009, 09:55 AM
We were a different team with Rob in the lineup. No question his absence has impacted our play. He is a small piece of the puzzle, but an important one....especially if we want to make a deep run in the tournament.

If Rob is 100% and cleared to play, I would love to see him return.

Zagsker
02-18-2009, 09:56 AM
After watching Josh struggle with his conditioning for a good couple of months after he came back from his foot injury last year, I do not have any expectations of Rob should he even make it back.

He will at best be playing 3-5 minutes a game for the first 5 or 6 games is he is back this year. Perhaps those minutes can be well placed, but don't count on him being a contributor immediatly upon his return. It won't happen.

agree

I have been hoping Sacre could make it back this year...but if you realistically look at it...the guy is more than likely not getting any meaningful practice time..I doubt they have him running up and down the court...thus making it a 6 game process (like you said) to get him close to game shape to where he can play meaningful/productive minutes

lothar98zag
02-18-2009, 10:46 AM
The Zeller situation is also different from Sacre in that he's a freshman (Sacre is a sophomore) on a team (UNC) that has a real shot at winning the national title.
another difference:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/13641354



Notable game scheduled for Wednesday: Tyler Zeller is expected to play for the first time in nearly three months when North Carolina hosts N.C. State at the Dean Smith Center. Zeller broke his left wrist in a win over Kentucky back on Nov. 18. At the time, it appeared he would miss the season. But with a national title at stake and Marcus Ginyard gone for the year, Roy Williams has decided to use the McDonald's All-American during this stretch run, primarily because it seems unlikely Zeller will play four years of college basketball anyway. The freshman forward was averaging 10.0 points through two games before the injury. Tip-off against N.C. State is set for 8 pm ET.

zeeehjee
02-20-2009, 12:50 PM
Burn it. Whether he's 100% or not, burn it.

Even if he isn't 100% he'll pull down some boards, which is a huge weakness for this team. As much as I love Foster, I feel better with Sacre in there.

Plus, I don't think GU has much to gain from Sacre in a 5th year. If they burn it, after Sacre graduates we'll have three Juniors down low in Poling, Dower, and Harris, plus whoever we bring in in the future. While we haven't had a good look at any of these guys, I'd say thats a good core of 3, and as I said earlier, it isn't even complete since we'll have 2 more years worth of recruits in there.

Burn it. Today.

bullzag23
02-20-2009, 01:05 PM
Burn it. Whether he's 100% or not, burn it.

Even if he isn't 100% he'll pull down some boards, which is a huge weakness for this team. As much as I love Foster, I feel better with Sacre in there.

Plus, I don't think GU has much to gain from Sacre in a 5th year. If they burn it, after Sacre graduates we'll have three Juniors down low in Poling, Dower, and Harris, plus whoever we bring in in the future. While we haven't had a good look at any of these guys, I'd say thats a good core of 3, and as I said earlier, it isn't even complete since we'll have 2 more years worth of recruits in there.

Burn it. Today.

Rushing these decisions never works out well, especially when we're talking about a foot injury. I'm of the opinion that Sacre will have a TON to give to this school/team over the next 3 years. Ultimately the decision should be left to Sacre/Few over whether or not he should return. From what I saw last night at the game, he was jumping up and down like crazy, especially towards the end when Sorenson hit his 3. I'm sure he wants to be in badly, but I'm also sure the coaching staff doesn't want this injury to come back. Nobody knows more about this injury than Few & Co(other than Sacre himself), so the decision is in very good hands. At this point in the season, however, I'm really doubting we'll see him back on the court.

zeeehjee
02-20-2009, 01:16 PM
"I'm of the opinion that Sacre will have a TON to give to this school/team over the next 3 years."

I agree. But I believe that based on our current situation and where the situation projects to be in 3 years, we have MORE to gain right now. I really don't think Sacre as a 5th year senior will be that much better than a Poling or a Dower as a Jr. Meawhile, I think that Sacre is a lot better than Foster is.

I really do like Foster, though.

zeeehjee
02-20-2009, 01:18 PM
"Rushing these decisions never works out well, especially when we're talking about a foot injury."

I guess you're right. It's not like its a stimulus package or anything.

bullzag23
02-20-2009, 02:19 PM
"Rushing these decisions never works out well, especially when we're talking about a foot injury."

I guess you're right. It's not like its a stimulus package or anything.

:lmao:

Anyways, my major concern here is not what the program has to gain, but what Sacre possibly has to lose. Remember this decision can seriously effect this young man's future, especially if it's the wrong one. I agree the team/program would be better off with him this year, but that may come at his expense if he is hurt again.

gbnyba17
02-20-2009, 04:07 PM
i think we are going to see sacre this year, just a gut feeling im goin with... also, while at the game last night sacre was talking to the officials and while i couldnt hear what was being said, it was something along the lines of "ill be back against so and so, and ready to go!" he had a big grin on his face and looked excited. i probably shouldnt have even said anything, cause that is literally all i could make out and dont know anymore, and he couldve just been saying ill be fully ready to go next year, but that is what i saw. im hopin hes back this year!

roxdoc
02-20-2009, 07:53 PM
I think it would be a mistake to bring Sacre back at this time. The risk of re-injury (its a subjective decision either way) the complete waste of a year of eligibility vs what very little extra the 5 minutes/game of Fosteresq play will give us does not make sense at this stage.

That said, with the difficulty we seem to have in finding bigs for the 5 position, having Rob for 3 more years does make a lot of sense.

Another observation from the Thursday game - Rob was front and center passing the ball in the warm ups - very vocal, very fired up and with that million dollar grin of his. At some point he is going to be that vocal team leader who challenges all to do their best. Can't wait - GO BIG ROB! (next year)

jim77
02-21-2009, 12:56 AM
Good post Hextall.

I would imagine that they would not bring him back if they thought he was more proned to injury. If he's cleared...he's cleared.

I think the big guy will have an impact, here's why:

1. He's 7 ft strong and athletic.
2. You'd be surprised how well one can condition without doing to much running....I went to conditoning drills in the pool with my brother when he was injured....BRUTAL! I was never so happy to see dry land in my life!
3. Its not like Rob is the point guard. In fact I noticed he never really strays too far from the hoop....which is just what we need. 3 words...REBOUND....DUNK....SWATT!
4. Don't kid yourself...we will get killed on the boards against a physical team.
5. Like Hextall said.....Rob could be the difference. We have the players now...we need to go all out with this group.
6. It would really open things up offensivley for Josh.

OZZag
02-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Jim Meehan wrote on Spokesman blog,

—Backup center Rob Sacre (foot) has been cleared to do some individual work. The next step in his recovery should come this week when he takes on additional tasks.

“Hopefully we can get him running up and down by the end of the week,” Few said. “And then we’ll see where he’s at and see what kind of impact he’s going to have.”

Good to see him moving around.

Once and Future Zag
02-22-2009, 08:01 PM
Also remember even if he doesn't play - he may still lose the year of eligibility if the Med Redshirt appeal is denied...

What sort of second guessing would we do if we don't play him - flame out early - and the redshirt is denied?

GoZags
02-22-2009, 08:13 PM
Also remember even if he doesn't play - he may still lose the year of eligibility if the Med Redshirt appeal is denied...

What sort of second guessing would we do if we don't play him - flame out early - and the redshirt is denied?

There is zero chance that a medical redshirt year would be denied. Oh, I guess there's a first time for everything -- and if Rob's potential redshirt year is denied,(if he doesn't play again this year) then that would be a first.