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g-ride
02-14-2009, 07:47 PM
It kills me to say this and it has been said here in the boards but I really think Goodson has been doing better then Pargo. I wanted Pargo to come back after last year and thought he would be great but his game has been shaky at best. Goodson has not been doing much, but has been careful with the ball and hitting 3s against USF.

Though, commits questions.

RenoZag
02-14-2009, 07:48 PM
Goodson has a bright future. Jeremy has consistency issues ( like that's news )

roxdoc
02-14-2009, 09:05 PM
Who was it that was saying Meech was an offensive liability?

JosephZags
02-14-2009, 09:08 PM
Best thread ever. I don't mind Jeremy playing, but I think he plays his best when he is the two in there with Goodson running the point. I wish Jeremy was our best player (or one of our best players), and I also was very happy when he came back for his senior year, but it's time to realize that he just doesn't get the job done.

g-ride
02-14-2009, 09:11 PM
Who was it that was saying Meech was an offensive liability?

I was not saying he was a liability but that he did not get the time he deserves to show what he is capitable of

Zag4Hire
02-14-2009, 09:12 PM
Blasphemy would be saying for Meech to overtake Stepp or Dickau. Pargo had a BIG TIME year at the point last year but this year....UGH. I think a lot is waying on the young man's mind from graduating to NBA dreams. Hard to say and hard to blame the young man but production is a brutal stat. Tighten up the hard hat and do what we know you are capable of JP. I feel like Adrian rooting for Rocky when watching JP on tube. I really want him to succeed and make it in the NBA.

thespywhozaggedme
02-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Who was it that was saying Meech was an offensive liability?

That was me. I man up for every thing that I post. I really hope Meech proves me wrong; so far so good(en). ;)

g-ride
02-14-2009, 09:17 PM
Listen I love Pargo and the reason I titled this post blasphemy was becuase I thought the freshman was playing better than Pargo, which one can say is blasphemy. I did not want Pargo to go prolast year becuase I thought he would be the capitan of this team. Seeing his profermance this year had me second guessing his decission. I wanted him to come back but his proforance this year has been shaky at best. I want Pargo to suceed and get drafted but at the same time I must think what is best for the Zags (Because I dont care that uch for the NBA)

snebzag
02-14-2009, 09:26 PM
Meech knows how to finish underneath. Showed that three times in the first half. Makes smart decesions for a freshman. Not perfect however. Finally threw up some outside shots. Made two 3-pointers. Great game.

JP is not the same as last year. Why? No clue. Had two early turnovers in the first half. Team had 12. Played a good second half. Reno said it. "has consistency issues." Very much so. Still like JP and his four year career.

WCC sweep is near. Go Zags!

jim77
02-14-2009, 10:23 PM
Questions?

What happens if we make it past the first weekend (NCAA Tourney)with JP at the helm???? Last year we we're outsted in the first round. So which year would be better???? JP has deferred a bunch of offense this year which has enabled others to increase theirs. Would we be happier if Jp took more shots which would leave fewer attempts for the others? Personally, his unselfish play may end up paying big dividends. It seems to me the Zags goals this year are to:

1. Win the conference...almost done.
2. Win the conference tourney...we'll see.
3. Qualify for dance...almost in.
4. Make it past the first game of the dance.

My opinion is this: I'm more likely to judge our PG by how far the team goes than by his stats. He has had more to's then we'd all like but, the ball has been spread around pretty good based on our scoring balance....I'd say JP has done pretty good there. Which is what he was supposed to do. I think he's responsible for more player development than most will acknowledge. Keep at it JP!

GeorgiaZagFan
02-14-2009, 11:16 PM
If the Zags are to do anything in the NCAA tournament beyond the first weekend then Jeremy needs to play like he did last year. You can throw Gray into that statement as well. Goodson has looked really good lately but not many teams do well in the big dance without veteran leadership at the guard spots. I believe JP needs to play basketball and stop trying to arrange his stat numbers to match some line the pros are looking for!!!

g-ride
02-14-2009, 11:20 PM
Questions?

What happens if we make it past the first weekend (NCAA Tourney)with JP at the helm???? Last year we we're outsted in the first round. So which year would be better???? JP has deferred a bunch of offense this year which has enabled others to increase theirs. Would we be happier if Jp took more shots which would leave fewer attempts for the others? Personally, his unselfish play may end up paying big dividends. It seems to me the Zags goals this year are to:

1. Win the conference...almost done.
2. Win the conference tourney...we'll see.
3. Qualify for dance...almost in.
4. Make it past the first game of the dance.

My opinion is this: I'm more likely to judge our PG by how far the team goes than by his stats. He has had more to's then we'd all like but, the ball has been spread around pretty good based on our scoring balance....I'd say JP has done pretty good there. Which is what he was supposed to do. I think he's responsible for more player development than most will acknowledge. Keep at it JP!

I understand your frustrations but the last two games against St Marys and USF Goodson has been more productive than Pargo. And belibieve me, I love Pargo. I want him to do well and succeed. But on the last couple of games can we afford his TOs and sloppy shots. Not to mention this will come against bottom teams of the WCC. If Pargo can take it up a notch on the remaining schedule then he should be good going into the tourney. But we played a week ass team and Pargo was shaky at best and Goodson played well.

Zag79
02-15-2009, 01:22 AM
:lmao: pargo shot 50%, compared to bouldins 4-11. sloppy shots? he had as many rebounds as meech and matt together. he had 5 assists, should have been 8+ if we hit open shots. and 2 other players had the same amount of TOs as jeremy. this team goes as far as pargo plays, and well. meech isnt the answer this year. for his new role this season i think pargos playing quite well. if he limits the tos and his guys hit more easy shots he would be almost a double double PG.

Air Force Zag
02-15-2009, 08:26 AM
For my part, I'd be pretty satisfied if Jeremy cut way down on the turnovers (particularly those caused by overdribbling) and replaced them with a few more assists -- I'm not wringing my hands over his shot selection and the rest.

I like the Meech/Pargo dual-PG lineup and think we should use it more (when appropriate...depends on the opposition and on what kind of night Bouldin is having). But then I would also like to see some more Josh/Will in at the same time too.

Meech is our PG for the future...if he continues to develop his jump shot, he could be unstoppable in many games. Watching him shoot threes with success last night really bodes well. But, IMHO, he is developing because Pargo is there as his mentor.

MickMick
02-15-2009, 08:51 AM
You can't compare the point guard stats with other positions to justify mediocre play. The point guard runs the offense, is the commander of situational awareness, and dictates tempo. For post season success, the point guard typically needs to be one of the two best players on the floor.

You cannot say "Well there are other players playing just as poorly" when speaking about the point guard position. It is a unique position similar to a quarterback in football. A position uniquely critical to team success.

ZagLawGrad
02-15-2009, 09:02 AM
He really is a key to the post-season. But I honestly don't know what to expect from him. Sometimes he goes down the floor and you're holding on to the Lazy Boy for dear life not knowing what might come out of him next.

Time to bring it all together JP. If he does, it will be a sight to see.

Ezag
02-15-2009, 09:05 AM
Pargo has been really making me nervous. I don't have much confidence in him and his decision making this season has at times been atrocious. As a floor general I give him a D grade and really can't wait for him to move on.

Though it doesn't sound like it now, I have been a Pargo supporter since the beginning but this year has taken the cake. Call me what you want but he is not the leader that he should be as a 4th year player and senior.

ZagSlug
02-15-2009, 09:51 AM
It is nice to know that the backup/future point guard is making progress but this is Pargo's team to run. It was nice to see Meech score in the flow of the offense and get others involved. They both have flaws as do all point guards.

Slug's List of Flaws
Pargo - too strong, not Raivio, GU point who can dunk and get to basket at will, ate my cheeseburger,
Raivio - had that Smeagol thing going on, "dribbled too much" was not Stepp or Dickau, missed a free throw once
PMAC - name was too long, Canadian, shot International distance treys, also not Stepp or Dickau
Stepp - had helmet hair, missed a shot against UA, so-so handles, microfracture surgery
Dickau - too short, kind of frosted hair, Hobbitty, went to UW
Forbes - Germayne was spelled with a Y, took 3 shots in his entire career, too British
Santangelo - rhymes with Jell-O, passed too much, too fearless driving, wasn't John Stockton

bigblahla
02-15-2009, 09:54 AM
After reading many many posts for this entire season on this subject I've come to a mind numbing bliss that only complete acceptance brings. It is what it is.

I no longer have expectations as to what this team or any individual will do at any given time on the court and therefore cannot be disappointed from their actions.

My only hope is we keep winning and end each game with at least one point more than our opponents anything else is gravy.

Funny, I havn't been screaming at the TV lately and the family doesn't mind being in the room when the Zags are playing.

Looking forward to the tourney in Vegas and hopefully making some new Zag fan friends.

Time to put the Waves and Lions in their rightful place.

Go!! Zags!!!

EngineerZag
02-15-2009, 01:40 PM
Pargo looks a bit lost this year on offense, except for the fast break. That's his specialty ... I love it when he has the ball on the break because he almost always scores no matter what gets thrown at him. I do like how he's become more of a distributor, however, I think he was doing really well at that in the beginning of the season and lately has gone backwards a bit in his assist to turnover ratio. Let's hope he can step it up for the tourney.

As far as winning the league goes, that's as good as done. We have two home games next week against the bottom two teams, that puts us at 12-0, and Portland has 3 losses already. So even if we lost to both SCU and USD on the road the following week (not likely) and Portland won out (possible), we'd still win the league title outright. No worries on that one.

gamagin
02-15-2009, 03:02 PM
:lmao: pargo shot 50%, compared to bouldins 4-11. sloppy shots? he had as many rebounds as meech and matt together. he had 5 assists, should have been 8+ if we hit open shots. and 2 other players had the same amount of TOs as jeremy. this team goes as far as pargo plays, and well. meech isnt the answer this year. for his new role this season i think pargos playing quite well. if he limits the tos and his guys hit more easy shots he would be almost a double double PG.

we have team issues more than a single player issue, imo. Way too often.

the first game we play every second of every minute, whichever five are on the floor, no matter whether MD or SG starts, 95 % of our "issues" will be overcome with effort, hustle, focus and production.

We've seen marginal to crappy teams nearly overcome us with the above ingredients and little else. Much of their good luck, even, comes from willpower more than superiority. They don't quit. They just keep coming and keep gunning.

You'd think we, with genuine talent and high expectations, would learn from these extraordinary games and individuals as they display right before our eyes exactly how we, ourselves, should play every game.

We owe it to them to learn the valuable lessons the San Franciscos of the WCC have taught us. Don't take anything for granted. Ever.

Go Zags !

kclubfounder
02-15-2009, 03:11 PM
In football, the fan's most popular player is normally the backup quarterback. Just sayin....

NotoriousZ
02-15-2009, 06:30 PM
This is just silly. Meech has a great game, and good for him, so some of you are ready to throw JP under a bus (and many of you people would have thrown him under long ago).

You really think Few's gonna start Meech now? Better wait until next year. Meech will keep learning and getting more minutes, but IMO Pargo and the rest of the Zags will deliver in March.

Zag79
02-15-2009, 09:20 PM
and no matter what you think of pargo: he turns it over too much, he makes alot of mistakes, etc. he still has the best assist to TO ratio other than gray on the whole team. which means the other players turn it over just as much for how many assists they hand out. statistically hes not bad at all. if meech started this year we would have lost many a more games.

UberZagFan
02-15-2009, 10:05 PM
A few points: one or two games a season does not make; as always Zag79 makes several valid points; and to continue the above analogy, the quarterback has a tough time when his receivers are running the wrong route or dropping passes or the offensive line is failing to provide adequate protection.

alaskazagnut
02-16-2009, 12:36 AM
We still are in the top 25, 1 of 2 teams still undefeated in conference, but the team chemistry is still not 100%. All we can do is pray and hope they can put the pieces all together during the Dance. If they can't do that and continue with status quo, we won't get past the second round.

Still a good year though.

seasontixholder
02-16-2009, 06:43 AM
One of the assistants told Tom Hudson after the game that DG shoots well in practice, and it is not a concern. That tidbit was the best news for our future that I've heard all year.

This is the present. Neither of the PGs are functioning near 100% at the moment, and that fact is the prime source of the team's present less-than-optimal performance.

Zag79
02-16-2009, 05:41 PM
Neither of the PGs are functioning near 100% at the moment, and that fact is the prime source of the team's present less-than-optimal performance.

interesting thought, even though i disagree. a team like ours that has these problems:
lack of a post man due to sacres injury, lack of rebounding due to playing 3 to 4 guards at one time make us very small, lack of a late game FT closer ala Raivio, and a horrific zone D that allows teams who have no business to hang around longer than they should, etc have more things to work on than a guard in pargo who still leads the team in assist to TO ratios. if pargo is so bad why dont his stats reflect it? probably because he is playing way better than the pargo haters can see. when this team wins its more than one player, same when they lose.