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View Full Version : Some tough Calls to make in 07/08.



HillBillyZag
03-19-2007, 02:18 PM
I am glad that I am not the one to have to figure out the roster and playing time for the coming season. Even after the numbers are pared down this will be on paper, arguably the deepest most talented Zag team ever. Up front you will have, hopefully, Heyveldt,Kuso,Pendo,Downs, Foster, & Davis, plus freshmen Sacre, Brown. And Pargo,Bouldin, PMac, Gurganius, Daye, Gray, plus the walk-ons. I'm guessing that at least one of the freshman will be red-shirted and other arrangements will have to be made for at least one other player.And as another poster mentioned in an earlier thread, Gonzaga will be deep enough to play some down & dirty defense without worrying too much about foul trouble. If there are enough minutes to keep them all happy, this should be something to see. Go Zags!!:D

Madcowz
03-19-2007, 05:58 PM
i doubt mast and sorensen will be back next year tbh

Thomas_Sutpen
03-19-2007, 06:41 PM
i doubt mast and sorensen will be back next year tbh

Why wouldn't they be back? Is there a roster limit? 13 scholies, but wouldn't two walk-ons be OK? (Or I guess 4 including Downs and Burgess)?

Birddog
03-19-2007, 06:45 PM
I believe the roster limit is 15.

Birddog

Wolkster
03-19-2007, 06:55 PM
If I was coach I would try and 'convince' Foster and Gray to redshirt. Foster is going to be buried in the rotation by:

Heytvelt
Kuso
Davis
Sacre
Pendo
Daye

There is no playing time with those six guys in front of him. He needs another year to get stronger and work on his game. Once Pendo and Kuso graduate there will be room for him.

Gray shouldn't redshirt as he is ready to play, but again there is no room for him behind:

Pargo
Bouldin
PMac
Downs
Brown
Gurganious


If you were the coach, what would you do?

23dpg
03-19-2007, 07:06 PM
Gray shouldn't redshirt as he is ready to play, but again there is no room for him behind:

Pargo
Bouldin
PMac
Downs
Brown
Gurganious


If you were the coach, what would you do?


I think there might be playing time for Gray. Downs and Gurg are SFs. I think Brown will also be a SF or even PF. PMac hasn't yet earned time for next year, though I would love to see it. That could leave Pargo Bouldin and Gray.

RebornZag
03-19-2007, 07:33 PM
I wouldn't go into the season with a closed mind on anyone. I think that everyone should have an equal chance of starting next year, and that EVERYONE has to win their spot and role on this team by how they play this summer and fall. Gray deserves a chance just like all the new players do. Once again, one of the keys will be chemistry. I've seen a quote in the past from Mark Few where he said that he thought Gray COULD contribute next year, and that of all the in coming Frosh that he had the best chance to contribute immediately. I feel that way about all of them. I say if two or three of them are better then last years guys then they should start. I know if I were a returning player from this year's team, I'd be working my butt off this Spring and Summer.

If Gray can not be a guy who contributes at least 12 minutes a game, then I say he should red-shirt. He may and he may not be able to create that role for himself. But then again...HE MAY!!! Time will tell, and sooner then later. Before we know it, it'll be summer and they'll all be playing together again. And Bob and others will keep us updated on their progress...

SteeleMan
03-19-2007, 07:54 PM
new year, same quandry.

Bocco
03-19-2007, 08:22 PM
new year, same quandry.

I would rather be faced with this quandry than to not have it.

madness
03-20-2007, 12:40 PM
I'm sorry to say (I've been one of his biggest promoters) but PMAC may be forced out of this rotation and possibly off the team. CAVEAT: anything can happen in the offseason and maybe he wins his respect and minutes back...

BUT (big but), the coaching staff has shown no inititative to get PMac on the floor in the 2nd half of this last season other than the Memphis game. The writing is unfortunately on the wall. I wish PMAC the best of luck in the future and hope he comes back and earns minutes.

Wait and see time....

lothar98zag
03-20-2007, 04:42 PM
I would rather be faced with this quandry than to not have it.
I'll wait until November and then decide if I need to worry about PT being a problem due to too many bodies.

There was supposed to be a huge PT problem this year and then LG & Davis were lost for the year due to injury. End of problem.

I just want everyone to remain healthy between now and the first game...

tyra
03-20-2007, 05:05 PM
Let's see which players develop and earn their PT. Let's see what the injury situation is. That said, it is hard not to look at next year and see some kind of PT distribution issue. I'm no Coach and I'm sure as Heck not Coach Few, but I sure like the idea of approaching the year considering taking a different approach, namely utilizing the press more and therefore, giving 9 or maybe even 10 payers some minutes. But even with that, there could still be a PT issue. Nice problem to have.

IrishZag
03-20-2007, 05:20 PM
I think the biggest issue that the coaches have to address is the role of Point Guard.

Due to injuries/suspensions and depth issues Bouldin was essentially forced to play the 3 this year. I was told that he was pretty unhappy about this situation. Now that Raivio is gone will Few consider playing Pargo at 2 and letting Bouldin run the offense? Or is the position Pargo's with Bouldin forced to create opportunities at the 2. This factors in that we are completely omitting PMAC and Gray which will also weigh heavily on the coaching staff.

It would be nice to say that we could run a 2 point guard offense, but we have not really done that at all recently. There is always a dominating point guard and one that is forced to find his touches when he is able to get them. I think this is particularly important considering both of these players are at the top of their game when they see the ball for the majority of the shot clock. They have two very different styles, and together they could be deadly but is there enough ball to go around to make it happen?

To complicate things, I think both players have fairly legitimate shots at making the NBA, but only at the point guard position. I doubt that either of them will be too happy being forced to play out of position and potentially hurt their draft stock.

Maybe I am just paranoid but I think this could become a pretty major issue in the next year.

Wolkster
03-21-2007, 10:06 AM
>I think Brown will also be a SF or even PF.

Not when he's 6' 4". He's a guard.

TimZag
03-21-2007, 10:50 AM
>I think Brown will also be a SF or even PF.

Not when he's 6' 4". He's a guard.
The people on this board who seem to always know what they're talking about (I think CDC and BZ specifically) have repeatedly said that he plays much bigger than his height...

sonuvazag
03-21-2007, 11:06 AM
The people on this board who seem to always know what they're talking about (I think CDC and BZ specifically) have repeatedly said that he plays much bigger than his height...

Not making a comparison because I've never seen Brown, but Charles Barkley was listed at 6'4". What matters is where his talent fits. PF sounds like a stretch, but not impossible especially considering Pendo's performance this year.

UberZagFan
03-21-2007, 12:02 PM
Due to injuries/suspensions and depth issues Bouldin was essentially forced to play the 3 this year. I was told that he was pretty unhappy about this situation.

If true, that is quite audacious of him, considering he was a frosh coming into a situation with 3 established guards. Quite frankly, he should be "happy" that he saw as many minutes as he did, regardless of where. And I suspect he was. Would he prefer to play the point? Sure. But I can't see complaining about anything as a frosh coming into a team that returned two starting guards and another guard that got significant minutes the year before--and all those guards were points.



Not making a comparison because I've never seen Brown, but Charles Barkley was listed at 6'4".

Barkley was almost always listed at 6'6". Admittedly, there were numerous rumblings that no way was he that tall but I've never seen him listed at 6'4". Aside from that, I like your comparison of Brown with a "Barkley-type" player.

youreachiteach
03-21-2007, 11:22 PM
Pmac hasn't earned mins yet?? Umm...didnt he start for a team that reached the sweet 16 and included, Adam Morrison, JP Batista and E. Knight??? But this yr, sits the bench on a team that barely won the WCC and lost a ton of games???

Something is odd, dont you think?

ZagNut08
03-22-2007, 01:05 AM
Would redshirting Foster make that large of a difference. I wonder how much an extra year would do for his development in the big picture. He will be burried this year, but the next few years also with poling and brock coming in. Also, one less year of a scholarship spent on him


I would not rs steven. I think we are thin at the gaurd this year, and he could fill that role. I see pargo, bouldin, grey being in the chase for time at the 1/2

SF/PF is where the logjam is

Wolkster
03-22-2007, 08:47 AM
>The people on this board who seem to always know what they're talking about (I think CDC and BZ specifically) have repeatedly said that he plays much bigger than his height...

He's 6' 4" and probably played Forward in junior college, because that's where he was needed.

GU will have the following next year:

6' 11" - Heltvelt
6' 9" - Kuso
6' 9" - Davis
7' 0" - Sacre
6' 10" - Daye
6' 8" - Downs
7' 3" - Foster
6' 6" - Pendo

If Brown plays a SECOND at PF next year I will be amazed.

Rubbadub
03-22-2007, 09:52 AM
Everyone on the team has a chance to earn big minutes. Assuming however that none of our four newcomers is ready to be a starter and that there are no unforseen circumstances, I see the starting line-up as:
1. Pargo
2. Bouldin (Both JP and MB sharing time at pg depending on situation)
3. Pendo
4. Downs
5. Heytvelt

IF for the first time in a long time we rely heavily on the press, I can see infrequent use of a lineup like:
1. Pargo
2. Pmac
3. LG
4. Downs
5. Kuso
Wouldnt that lineup be a defensive nightmare? We have SO many players that seem like they would be good for lots of minutes in the press. Pmac, LG, Brown, maybe Theo...they could all become more important to the team next year than anyone has thought of. That being said, there will be a logjam at the 3 and 4, more so than at the guard spots. Undoubtedly, some players will rise to the occasion and some will fade away...i just dont see anyone doing that though.

What would you think if we threw out a lineup of
1. Bouldin
2. Gray
3. Downs
4. Daye
5. Heytvelt
Would it be like a West Virginia 3 point shooting spree? I love all the possibilities :)

Nevtelen
03-22-2007, 10:25 AM
I know that Micah played at the 4 some this year, but I'd be pretty surprised if he did it much next year. He just isn't a 4. It was a stop-gap necessity this year. I also can't see Daye playing the 4 despite his height. He'd get pushed around waaaaayyy too much. Our PF choices seem to be (asusming his back) Heytvelt (if he's not at the 5), Davis ( again, assuming - though maybe he's more of a 5? Don't know), Pendo (out of position, but he did it pretty well this year). Maaayyybe Ira Brown as an out-of-position PF, but I'll believe it when I see it work. We're just not that deep at that position.

The logjam would be at the 3, in my mind: Micah gets the start, I think. But Daye, maybe LG, maybe Pendo, probably Brown behind...

Also, the 5 - probably Heytvelt some (if he's not at the 4), Davis, Kuso, and Sacre, as well as possibly Foster and Burgess.

This is another year where I think the starters at the end of the year will be different than at the beginning. My starting line-up to begin the year might be:

1. Pargo
2. Bouldin
3. Micah
4. Heytvelt
5. Kuso

But, if people live up to their potential/adjust to the D-I game, later on in the conference season and post-season, I bet Sacre or Davis would start over Kuso.

Rubbadub
03-22-2007, 10:33 AM
Daye might be thin, but he doesnt seem like a pushover defensively to me, even against fours...plus he's skilled and very lengthy. How many blocks did he have a game? I don't see any wcc 4 pushing him around.

zaguarxj
03-22-2007, 11:48 AM
Throw these lineups out there occasionally, just to mess with the minds of the other team :p

Tall Lineup:

PG Bouldin - 6'5"
SG Downs - 6'8"
SF Daye - 6'10"
PF Heytvelt - 6'11"
C Foster - 7'4"

Small Lineup:

PG PMAC - 6'0"
SG Pargo - 6'2"
SF Brown - 6'4"
PF Pendo - 6'6"
C Kuso - 6'9"

Zag79
03-22-2007, 12:56 PM
Pmac hasn't earned mins yet?? Umm...didnt he start for a team that reached the sweet 16 and included, Adam Morrison, JP Batista and E. Knight??? But this yr, sits the bench on a team that barely won the WCC and lost a ton of games???

Something is odd, dont you think?

normally i disagree with ya YRIT but, on this one im sold to an extent. pmac was under used this season tremendously. his experience alone against Indiana would have done more for us than the bouldin/pargo combo. for whatever the reason they really struggled and some more pmac would have been nice. i actually thought that throughout the season when matt was having his frosh struggles and im by no means throwing those guys under the bus. anyone that know me would vouge for that. the whole pmac deal is one of the strangest ive seen considering he is so good and tentative at the same time.

23dpg
03-22-2007, 01:33 PM
Barkley was almost always listed at 6'6". Admittedly, there were numerous rumblings that no way was he that tall but I've never seen him listed at 6'4". Aside from that, I like your comparison of Brown with a "Barkley-type" player.


From Wikipedia:

During his college career, Barkley played the center position, despite being significantly shorter than the average center. His height, frequently listed as 6 ft 6 in, is actually, as stated in his book, "I May Be Wrong but I Doubt It," closer to 6 ft 4 in. He received numerous awards, including South Eastern Conference (SEC) Player of the Year (1984), two All-SEC (1983-84) selections, two Second Team All-SEC (1982-83) selections, and one Third Team All American selection (1984).[4]

As for Brown, He is not a guard.

and I stated SF or PF

Wolkster
03-22-2007, 02:20 PM
>and I stated SF or PF

On a junior college team he was a PF, not on a Top 25 program, which GU will be the next two years.