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View Full Version : Seattle Times Bud Withers article talking S**T



D Hark 2003
02-10-2009, 07:26 AM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/budwithers/2008725301_withers10.html


If you have any Gonzaga pride go to the seattle times and comment on this article. Bud Withers and a bunch of huskies fans are talking a lot of #### about the Zags. I would log on and tell them where they can stick it, but i cant becuase long ago I was banned for telling the huskies fans what they didnt want to hear... That they suck, are scared to play us, and are fair weather fans, and that we beat them 9 out of the last 10. If they have something to say come play us! Anyway I got to work saw this Bud Withers article and was pissed off.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-10-2009, 07:38 AM
Here was my response on the seattle times forum. I used my same screen name that I use here


I agree we had a bad game and can be enigmatic at times, its pretty frustrating actually, I wonder what would happen if we played the Huskies? Oh thats right your lack of sack coach wont schedule us anymore, whats that I hear, we beat u of w 9 out of the last 10 times, weird. Well I guess since we have not played in a few years you husky fans can come out of hibernation and spout off about us, now that your having a "DECENT" year. Until your school actually sacks up and puts us back on your schedule all that will be and can be said is SCOREBOARD.

cggonzaga
02-10-2009, 07:49 AM
I didn't even bother reading what the posters wrote but Bud's article is completely accurate. Can't blame the man for speaking the truth.

ZagnetitForce
02-10-2009, 07:51 AM
Hmmm, I actually thought it was a pretty spot-on atricle. He was honest and didn't say anything the rest of don't already know. I hope he is wrong about the Seed, I hate and fear the 8/9 Seed.

Zags should still be fine. They learned two great lessons this year (Portland State and Memphis). I think both lessons will help them considerably. Time will tell.

kclubfounder
02-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Withers is more of a Zag fan than a Dawg fan. I have no problem with the article. The puppies making comments are trying to compensate for the sick feeling they have about the fact that their coach is afraid to schedule the Zags. And the fact that the little school in the little conference, which resides on the wrong side of the state, is the dominant program in the Pacific NW. And they know it.

Angelo Roncalli
02-10-2009, 08:00 AM
Bud is spot on, as usual.

TexasZagFan
02-10-2009, 08:05 AM
I didn't even bother reading what the posters wrote but Bud's article is completely accurate. Can't blame the man for speaking the truth.

Agreed, Bud spoke the truth.

There must be more than a few posters who don't know Bud was the author of Bravehearts.

vandalzag
02-10-2009, 08:06 AM
Pretty accurate. Do not understand what correlation his article has with the Huskies or their fans? Withers, historically has been a pro-zag writer. Really nothing in the article is wrong, in fact he may have softened some points.

zag944
02-10-2009, 08:17 AM
Wow. Talk about half empty.

The team has certainley looked lethargic at times, but it has also looked excellent, and most of the time it looks somewhere in between.

What exactly is he trying to say? That we are overrated because, in his opinion, we won't survive the first weekend of the tourney? Only 16 teams do, and we aren't ranked in the top 16. Does he think we are just a bunch of pompous fools who would brush off an elite 8 or Final 4 like we expected it all along?

Lastly, I hate the frequent Seattle Times categorizing of pretty much every player we've had during our NCAA tourney streak into either a "hard worker" OR "athletic freak" category, as if weve never had guys that were both. The most irritating example was in last years Pargo article, when they said that he was the "type" of kid GU needed to take it to the next level. Disgusting.

I know Withers likes the Zags and is frustrated by some of their losses, but I don't think this program deserves this sort of criticsm for "only" being a tournament team.

Robzagnut
02-10-2009, 08:28 AM
Withers has always been pro GU. He's obviously frustrated too by their bad play. You can see the 'GU fan' in his writing.

HRZag
02-10-2009, 08:32 AM
About what? What he said was a pretty accurate. He won't get an argument from me.

Sorry to say that. This team really is maddening.

dim4sum
02-10-2009, 08:33 AM
The idea of putting training wheels on the will to win makes for a clever metaphor. But it is hyperbole at best, considering a 17-5 record with a long, long stretch of difficult games on the road.
I think in the off-season the coaches have to get together and evaluate what they are recruiting, totally ignoring the fact that player X is averaging a zillion points a game in the Calgary Cow Chip Prep Association.
Off court character issues and on-court toughness have to be the main
criteria.
UW, the Zags, and WSU, as the only division one teams may have the inside edge in recruiting in-state, but next year the paradigm shifts and Seattle University, with a legacy of once having gone to the Final-2, enters the recruiting picture, with the possibility of an inside edge on landing the kind
of tough, focused recruit the team needs.
What I'm saying is the team may need to reconsider its recruiting approach and not merely chase prima donna all-stars. There's nothing greater for a coach than to get a bunch of nobodies and make them into somebodies.
The Zags don't do that anymore, and looking at Few's body language I think it has made him lose some of his zest for the game.

MDABE80
02-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Actually Bud's a GU fan. I haven't spent time on his article but usually he says things we know already and say on this Board. Lots of things wrong with this team....and we know it.......it doesn't mean we can't resurrect our hopes. The rebounding is our achilles heel though and will hurt us as much as giving the ball back (TO's). Bud's in Seattle but I can't think of a more objective guy who likes the Zags. See fellas, he's not here but he still has the "dream" generated 10 years ago. Bud's frustrated just like we are. He knows his stuff.

ZagSlug
02-10-2009, 08:40 AM
Bud sounds right on to me, we probably have all at least thought the same things even if we did not post it.

There are probably a few on this board who are trying to find a way to neg rep Bud for this article. ;)

gamagin
02-10-2009, 09:36 AM
This is one of those times.

HillBillyZag
02-10-2009, 09:44 AM
The truth hurts, but there it is. Look I love these kids, but this was the first game I ever saw a Zag team just QUIT.

FuManShoes
02-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Hard to quibble with anything Bud wrote. This Zags team, for as amazingly versatile and smooth as they have looked at times this year, has also gone rudderless on too many occasions. Their new commitment to defense was supposed to be something that tied the team together and would never leave them no matter what adversity they faced, and yet even that fell by the wayside against Memphis. For as tough as physically tough as guys like Bouldin, Pargo, Downs and Ira are, the team does indeed seem to lack a guy that can pull everyone together on the court and refocus them. May well be a lost cause for this group this late in the year. You look at the recruits coming in and wonder who that guy will be in the future. From what I've seen, the best hope for a true floor leader lies in the smallest guy out there -- Mr. Meech. and his time will come ...

Das Zagger
02-10-2009, 10:35 AM
"Best" part of the article: Splat.


Thursday is going to be interesting.

Pure
02-10-2009, 10:49 AM
Sometimes the Truth Hurts. Not many flaws in his logic

Potential is a funny thing.... it only gets mentioned when you fall short. And when tested this year so far we been stepping on our *&*(#.

Hoping we have the Heart to turn it around and prove this article wrong....

sittingon50
02-10-2009, 11:16 AM
Bud is a big Zag fan. Just "telling it like it is."

cggonzaga
02-10-2009, 11:21 AM
I have been encouraged by some of the talk from the guys. The word embarrassed has been thrown out more than once. This is one time they need to be reading the press clippings. Maybe they can find some motivation out of it.

ZagLawGrad
02-10-2009, 11:47 AM
I have been encouraged by some of the talk from the guys. The word embarrassed has been thrown out more than once. This is one time they need to be reading the press clippings. Maybe they can find some motivation out of it.


Nice to hear they're talking about it. But frustrating that the topic even has to come up with the experience and battles the veterans on this team have had over the past 3 to 4 years. You wouldn't think they would have to read a press clipping to get motivated.

208Zag
02-10-2009, 11:47 AM
I think Bud was just speaking the truth on when it comes to the Zags. Final four talent but you got to want it.

I think his reference to Santangelo and the Zags of old is an interesting point. For so long we have been blessed with great floor leaders in Santangelo, Dickau, Steppe and Morrison. These were the guys the team and even the coaches looked to when the chips were down and they delivered time and time again because they were tough, smart and had a tremendous will to win.

Who fills this roll for GU Now? I'm not sure we have anyone capable of being the guy that puts the whole team (coaches and players) on their back and can deliver.

Bouldin could/might be the guy but we haven't seen it yet . . .

McZag
02-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Bud is a big Zag fan. Just "telling it like it is."

Exactly Sitting! Bud loves us and is just as baffled as we are. I really hope the guys read his stuff and realize what a golden opportunity they are blowing. The UW stuff is laughable. March will tell all. Hopefully we'll have figured out what we can do by then.

cggonzaga
02-10-2009, 01:25 PM
Nice to hear they're talking about it. But frustrating that the topic even has to come up with the experience and battles the veterans on this team have had over the past 3 to 4 years. You wouldn't think they would have to read a press clipping to get motivated.


Couldn't agree more but at this point we need something. My feeling is that if you don't have a player to do it then it needs to be the coach. I don't think that's really Few's style but one area in which I believe he could get better at. Completely an outside perspective of course.

tobizag
02-10-2009, 02:07 PM
that was a solid article from a solid sports journalist. the bulldogs once again find themselves at a turning point, though with now fewer (if any) opportunities to right the ship.

RenoZag
02-10-2009, 02:13 PM
I guess it's time to ban Bud. . .


;)


Given his bona fides, Withers has earned the right to write what he did.

D Hark 2003
02-10-2009, 04:09 PM
I was referring mostly to the posters after bud who are a bunch of bandwagon jumping husky fans..., yeah anyone who watched the game who has a brain would say some of the things bud said. With that being said I think he missed a very important point which should have been added. He should have mentioned that Few shook up the lineup far too late for us to come back and win. after Pargo's many TOs or just lengthy lulls in our offense at the beginning of the first half, put in guys from the bench! If Daye is pouting and not getting rebounds put in IRA...! Few is the coach and he should act like one. Make adjustments, use guys from the bench if the current players are not playing hard. Where is the criticism of FEW! He is the coach, he is in charge of getting players prepared for big games, small games, any game! HE HAS DONE A TERRIBLE JOB THIS YEAR AT GETTING OUR PLAYERS READY FOR GAMES AND ALSO AT MAKING ADJUSTMENTS DURING GAMES. I am frustrated with the coaching. If a point guard turns the ball over multiple times in a row and appears rattled get him the #### out of the game! I dont care who it is.


Oh and another thing few, why dont you tell the guys to post up heytvelt every time down the floor and make sure you pass it to him at least once in the post everytime on offense. ESPECIALLY AGAINST A TEAM THAT DOESNT HAVE THE BEST POST PRESENCE IN THE PLANET LIKE MEMPHIS. If Josh doesnt want to then make him post up or put him on the bench. Where is coach Fitz at? Maybe he should go and talk to Few and remind Few that he built the program around players with heart and smarts. Just a few thoughts

Larrylegend
02-10-2009, 05:44 PM
Withers wrote, "The jersey is the only thing that ties this team to the hard-charging, bust-their-backside Gonzaga squads dating to the mid-90s, with people like Quintin Hall, Casey Calvary, Matt Santangelo and Cory Violette."

How very true...

vandalzag
02-10-2009, 05:47 PM
I was referring mostly to the posters after bud who are a bunch of bandwagon jumping husky fans..., yeah anyone who watched the game who has a brain would say some of the things bud said. With that being said I think he missed a very important point which should have been added. He should have mentioned that Few shook up the lineup far too late for us to come back and win. after Pargo's many TOs or just lengthy lulls in our offense at the beginning of the first half, put in guys from the bench! If Daye is pouting and not getting rebounds put in IRA...! Few is the coach and he should act like one. Make adjustments, use guys from the bench if the current players are not playing hard. Where is the criticism of FEW! He is the coach, he is in charge of getting players prepared for big games, small games, any game! HE HAS DONE A TERRIBLE JOB THIS YEAR AT GETTING OUR PLAYERS READY FOR GAMES AND ALSO AT MAKING ADJUSTMENTS DURING GAMES. I am frustrated with the coaching. If a point guard turns the ball over multiple times in a row and appears rattled get him the #### out of the game! I dont care who it is.


Oh and another thing few, why dont you tell the guys to post up heytvelt every time down the floor and make sure you pass it to him at least once in the post everytime on offense. ESPECIALLY AGAINST A TEAM THAT DOESNT HAVE THE BEST POST PRESENCE IN THE PLANET LIKE MEMPHIS. If Josh doesnt want to then make him post up or put him on the bench. Where is coach Fitz at? Maybe he should go and talk to Few and remind Few that he built the program around players with heart and smarts. Just a few thoughts

This post is sillier than you first one, thanks for the laugh. Very hard to find good satire during these bleak times. You were joking right.....

gamagin
02-10-2009, 06:21 PM
This post is sillier than you first one, thanks for the laugh. Very hard to find good satire during these bleak times. You were joking right.....

I think, though it was unclear by the post, that our friend is referring to the comments after withers' article in the seattle paper, not here. But I could be wrong. I just happened to read a few posts after the article and it seemed to fit what Hark was referring to. fwiw.

N texas 509er
02-10-2009, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=dim4sum;363008]UW, the Zags, and WSU, as the only division one teams may have the inside edge in recruiting in-state, but next year the paradigm shifts and Seattle University, with a legacy of once having gone to the Final-2, enters the recruiting picture, with the possibility of an inside edge on landing the kind
of tough, focused recruit the team needs.
What I'm saying is the team may need to reconsider its recruiting approach and not merely chase prima donna all-stars. There's nothing greater for a coach than to get a bunch of nobodies and make them into somebodies.


Interesting perspective. Think that Joe Callero and the Seattle University men's basketball team might be trying to use that as their edge .... GU used to have it and maybe struggling in the "grey area" .... not only SU, but the rest of the conference seems to be taking a page from the GU success formula

dpouley
02-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Withers is more of a Zag fan than a Dawg fan.

Withers responsibilities at the Times include covering sports for Eastern Washington. In fact if their is a Zag or Cougar apologist or supporter on the Times staff it is most likely Bud Withers.

MDABE80
02-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Oh I see DP....it must be that there's nothing to cover in Seattle. 0-12 is worth covering....afterall......it's a "perfect" record.And then there's Romar............

siliconzag
02-11-2009, 05:56 AM
is on target. Even his explanations of our vulnerabilities reflect my own. I agree with Angello and CG.

It makes no sense to get into a verbal battle with Husky fans. At this point, even I am not sure that the outcome of a game against them wouldn't change the record to 9-2. They are playing well at this time of the year, and we are not.

I am almost ready to bring out my perennial "Wait til next year" placard.

Sili

D Hark 2003
02-11-2009, 07:05 AM
maybe to you it makes sense not to get into altercations with husky fans, but I am a known GU fan over on the west side and many of my friends went to UW and i have to listen to them all the time this year, so verbal altercations with husky fans are kind of unavoidable especially when a bunch of them text me "did you see that article withers wrote about how bad the zags are blah blah blah ...

D Hark 2003
02-11-2009, 07:09 AM
This post is sillier than you first one, thanks for the laugh. Very hard to find good satire during these bleak times. You were joking right.....

vandal did you even read the first post i made before you read the other idiots responses, i mentioned withers name once at the beginning but the rest of my post was pointed at husky fans and people who commented after the article, I was at work so i didnt have much time to edit my thoughts or sentences, but withers was talking #### thats the bottom line deal with it. Yes you can write articles and be a critic all you want even if some of your points are valid but i have some pride and am not going to stand for anyone putting down my team like that.

vandalzag
02-11-2009, 07:13 AM
D Hark must be a tough doing battle every day, do your daily battles with the Huskies look like this?

http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/36/35/66/18629180.jpg

NJZag
02-11-2009, 12:02 PM
Withers wrote, "The jersey is the only thing that ties this team to the hard-charging, bust-their-backside Gonzaga squads dating to the mid-90s, with people like Quintin Hall, Casey Calvary, Matt Santangelo and Cory Violette."

How very true...


Sigh ...


http://media.scout.com/Media/College_Mens_Basketball/94_qhall2004.JPG

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/stories/2008/mar/17/zagslastpic17_03-17-2008_RBCVT9R.jpg

Another sigh ..

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/16/161985.jpg

http://images.townnews.com/nctimes.com/content/articles/2004/02/07/sports/amateur/2_6_0422_21_06.jpg

But hey ... the whole debate about "does this team have the mental toughness and same hunger to win of the '99 originals" has been going on since at least 2002 or 2003 and the Heightened Expectations Era, right?

More sighs ...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/teams/gaj/schedule

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/teams/gae/schedule

As far as the idea of "clearing out all the starters" and rebooting some passion, it got one team's passion re-ignited even if the win was not to be had. (Narrowly in an OT.)


Georgetown came out flat and sloppy in Saturdayís game with Cincinnati, but after a gutsy, wholesale substitution by Head Coach John Thompson III, the Hoyas brought the energy and focus that helped them build a 20-point lead. When the lead disappeared in the second half, the energy and focus didnít, and that is what was really scary about Georgetown 64-62 loss to the Bearcats of Cincinnati. http://www.thehoya.com/node/17836

Reaction time for "gutsy" was slower in the other game


The question after Gonzaga's humbling loss to Memphis on Feb. 7 is, how will Jeremy Pargo, Matt Bouldin and Austin Daye react to being benched for a good portion of the second half of that 18-point defeat. Those three are the backbone of the team, and they need to be confident and focused for the Feb. 12 road game against St. Mary's. http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=teamreports-2009-ncaab-gaj&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report

Seeding prediction from Rivals/Yahoo at a low-end 8 and probably slipping to a 9 for one, no seeding showing up at all for the other.

http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=911268


Gonzaga has won just one of its past five non-conference games, but the Zags clearly look to be the best team in the West Coast Conference.

WCC can be a blessing.

One had a loss to #1 seed-estimated Connecticut that was at least a "credible game effort" at the BIS, the other had a win against Connecticut (making it UConn's only loss so far this season) which hyped up the hope and now, in hindsight, might have been almost a PSU-style ("Huskies guard was down at home") fluke win.

Where is the leadership? (http://hoyatalk2.proboards48.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=18678) asks one set of fans ...

Where did the names go? (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=18132) asks another set of fans ...

Expectations seem beside the point in a rollercoaster year. Except the simplest expectation that hoops is a "crazy game" with ups and downs.

One. Game. At. A. Time.

vandalzag
02-11-2009, 12:43 PM
vandal did you even read the first post i made before you read the other idiots responses, i mentioned withers name once at the beginning but the rest of my post was pointed at husky fans and people who commented after the article, I was at work so i didnt have much time to edit my thoughts or sentences, but withers was talking #### thats the bottom line deal with it. Yes you can write articles and be a critic all you want even if some of your points are valid but i have some pride and am not going to stand for anyone putting down my team like that.

Speaking the truth and putting a team down are not one the same. As most Zag fans have responded on this thread, it was really hard to find fault in the article.
One question though, why would you be responding to Husky fans posting on the PI site by way of the Gonzaga fan site. I know the internet is a vast and connected entity but do you think it may have been better to respond directly to said posters? I mean if you are going to have an internet rumble should you not let the other side know that you are fixin to open a can of whoop ass on them?
Remember you can be critical and still be a fan of something. It does not mean you lack pride.

D Hark 2003
02-11-2009, 03:20 PM
Speaking the truth and putting a team down are not one the same. As most Zag fans have responded on this thread, it was really hard to find fault in the article.
One question though, why would you be responding to Husky fans posting on the PI site by way of the Gonzaga fan site. I know the internet is a vast and connected entity but do you think it may have been better to respond directly to said posters? I mean if you are going to have an internet rumble should you not let the other side know that you are fixin to open a can of whoop ass on them?
Remember you can be critical and still be a fan of something. It does not mean you lack pride.

See the original thread starting post bro, i cant post on the seattle TIMES (not PI) site because i have been banned thats why i posted this so some GU fans would go stick up for their team...

vaboris
02-11-2009, 04:44 PM
I was referring mostly to the posters after bud who are a bunch of bandwagon jumping husky fans..., yeah anyone who watched the game who has a brain would say some of the things bud said. With that being said I think he missed a very important point which should have been added. He should have mentioned that Few shook up the lineup far too late for us to come back and win. after Pargo's many TOs or just lengthy lulls in our offense at the beginning of the first half, put in guys from the bench! If Daye is pouting and not getting rebounds put in IRA...! Few is the coach and he should act like one. Make adjustments, use guys from the bench if the current players are not playing hard. Where is the criticism of FEW! He is the coach, he is in charge of getting players prepared for big games, small games, any game! HE HAS DONE A TERRIBLE JOB THIS YEAR AT GETTING OUR PLAYERS READY FOR GAMES AND ALSO AT MAKING ADJUSTMENTS DURING GAMES. I am frustrated with the coaching. If a point guard turns the ball over multiple times in a row and appears rattled get him the #### out of the game! I dont care who it is.


Oh and another thing few, why dont you tell the guys to post up heytvelt every time down the floor and make sure you pass it to him at least once in the post everytime on offense. ESPECIALLY AGAINST A TEAM THAT DOESNT HAVE THE BEST POST PRESENCE IN THE PLANET LIKE MEMPHIS. If Josh doesnt want to then make him post up or put him on the bench. Where is coach Fitz at? Maybe he should go and talk to Few and remind Few that he built the program around players with heart and smarts. Just a few thoughts

Just another awesome post by this genius. Keep 'em comin' man.

vandalzag
02-11-2009, 04:48 PM
See the original thread starting post bro, i cant post on the seattle TIMES (not PI) site because i have been banned thats why i posted this so some GU fans would go stick up for their team...

Sorry homey I missed on the Times, but thanks for the all caps I will not make that mistake again. One final question, what that hell do you have to do to get banned on the Times site. I have read a lot of comments on there and it seems that you have to be way over the top to get banned. Were you in full out internet throw down mode? When those Husky fans start getting to you, just repeat to yourself Serenity Now Serenity Now Serenity Now.

D Hark 2003
02-11-2009, 06:34 PM
[QUOTE=vandalzag=hater