How Come We Can't Rebound?

[Ezag]

I admit, I am no basketball genius so sorry if this is a stupid question or something painfully obvious.

We got a bunch of tall, athletic guys so what's our problem? I mean getting out rebounded by Memphis is one thing but damn even the crappy WCC teams out rebound us.

[ZagSlug]

Only one category bothers me, and they seem to come up at the worst moments.

Total Rebounds
GU 853
Opponents 773

Defensive Rebounds
GU 609
Opponents 508

Offensive Rebounds
GU 244
Opponents 265

And I know some of it is opponents putting up 3's with long rebounds but it is very frustrating when an opponent gets another shot after GU plays good defense.

[malmer7]

i hate harping on recruiting, because we obviously pull some of the best talent from around the nation (and have built a program based on doing so) - but it is more and more apparent that we have been recruiting scorers the last few years, not rebounders.
unfortunately, you can't just teach a guy to rebound over night, it's a skill just like shooting or dribbling and many players have that internal ability to rebound (just no one in a uniform that says gonzaga on the chest - and i say this because Sacre is one of those guys, just that he's out right now, obviously).
we're going to have to recruit a more well rounded skill set if we're going to win any other way then our offensive skills.

[BobZag]

Lack of effort.

[UberZagFan]

Lack of desire.....oh where has the rooster gone?

[Das Zagger]

Offensive Rebounds
GU 244
[COLOR=Red]Opponents 265

This absolutely drives me crazy, losing on the o-boards. Either you want to rebound the ball or you don't.

[MDABE80]

Tough enough to get the damned ball. O or D.....you have to want the ball and go get it.not just watch.

[roxdoc]

To answer your question Ezag: We have 2 tall starters as primary rebounders. One is under weight and gets pushed around by aggressive opponents, the other prefers to not play under the basket on offense. Ergo, less than expected offensive boards. They do get some mind you, and do better in less competitive situations.

[TacomaZAG]

Thanks for the stats, Slug

I didn't realize we were doing that well in the rebounding department. I agree with the recruiting angle but a lot of it is scheme also. Let's take the Memphis game as an example, since that is still freshest in our mind. With Rob out due to injury, we have three guys (Josh, Austin, Micah) who can crash the boards against top 25 competition. Austin was a non factor Saturday for reasons that have been analyzed to death on this board, Micah didn't get adequate minutes and the minutes he got were on the wing. That leaves Josh as our only real rebounder, and he can't rebound with the 3 or 4 Memphis guys (all 6'-8"+, long and athletic) who were crashing the board after every shot.

With Rob out, we have only one guy (Josh) who is a true 4 or 5 and gets any minutes. We are loaded on the wing (the 2 and 3) but those guys aren't going to contribute on the boards against top 25 competition, due to our offensive scheme (wings on the outside, shooting threes or driving and dishing). With Austin on the bench for most of Saturday, Josh could block his guy out perfectly every time and still not get a lot of rebounds, due to the numbers (3 or 4 against 1).

Also, the GU scheme has never been built around "bangers", although we have had a number of them in years past (Casey, Cory, JP, among others), so we typically don't recruit those type of guys.

Finally, this is a two chapter discussion. Chapter one is rebounding in general, where Slug shows we are doing OK. Chapter two is the important chapter to me, and that is rebounding against top 25 or top 50 competition. The overall stats get slanted in our favor as we beat up on the LMU's, Pepperdines, and other WCC bottom feeders as well as weak OOC opponents. I wonder what our rebounding stats are against the top 25 or top 50 this year (we are 4-3 in those games this year)???? My guess is not so good.

There are very few teams who consistently combine stellar offense, defense, and rebounding, and those that do are in the top 10. This year we combine stellar offense, defense, and have decent rebounding. We have a couple of bad losses, but who doesn't?????

I guess my point is that things with this team aren't as dire as some on this board seem to think. We'll get to the dance and at that point, anything can happen. A successful season to me is if we are still playing on the 2nd weekend of the Tourney. With our personnel this year, and most years, our margin for error is just slimmer than other top 25-50 schools, as our lack of depth in the post is really magnified with untimely injuries (Rob this year and Josh in years past). As I've said on other threads, IMO if we have Rob healthy we beat UCONN in regulation and who knows what happens after that.

Keep the faith, lots of adjustments still to be made, lots of rebounds still available.

Go ZAGS

[ZagLawGrad]

Actually, the Zags can rebound. For some crazy reason, though, oftentimes they just don't. Mental toughness and effort issue, not skills.

[asoc]

I am not qualified to state WHY it happens. But that won't stop me from posting an opinion/observation.

It appears to me, though, that often times Gonzaga takes shots when players are not in position to get in position to rebound. I frequently see long shots taken when Josh is standing outside the key, and wasn't necessarily involved in setting up the shot with a screen etc. Almost as if he was beginning to float outside and before he got there a shot was taken, which leaves him out of position to go for those rebounds. Sort of in no mans land. Whether that is a valid concern or no, I don't know. But I would like to see our players in better positions for rebounds when shots are taken. Sometimes it appears as though there is nothing they can do because of where they are at on the floor.

Does that make sense?

[cggonzaga]

I completely disagree that it's an effort issue. It's a defensive and offensive scheme issue imo. With all the switching we do oftentimes men get lost which makes it much harder to block out. The good part of our defense is that we make people settle for outside jumpers because we do a pretty good job of keeping teams out of the lane. The bad is that we do allow the outside jumper which creates long rebounds. The other part of this is that we like to get out and run on offense and sometimes our guards are trying to sneak out for the fast break instead of securing the ball. I don't buy into the "everyone is just watching" argument or that it's a lack of effort. More a focus thing imo.

[ZagLawGrad]

I completely disagree that it's an effort issue. .. More a focus thing imo.

Not sure there is any real difference between focus and effort.

Bottom line, the Zags' opponents often seem to have more of one or the other, or both.

[EngineerZag]

Some games the Zags dominate on rebounds, and others they don't. It seems completely random, doesn't seem to matter much who we're playing. To me that's an indicator that it depends mostly on whether or not everyone's "dialed in". As Few has said a couple of times, the guys need to play within their defined roles (Josh especially).

[cggonzaga]

Not sure there is any real difference between focus and effort.

There's a huge difference in the two. In one you're making an attempt because you're in good position and paying attention to what's going on. In the other you're lost and forgetting about what you should be doing and maybe realize a split second too late. Again, I don't see guys not attempting to go for a rebound if it's coming towards them, they're just not always in a good position to do so and not because for lack of effort.