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Bogozags
02-08-2009, 01:01 PM
Losing at home or the friendly confines of Spokane…not just losing but being dominated, completely dominated. We choked. Pargo, Bouldin and Gray just didn’t show up…THEY CHOKED in the game WE HAD TO WIN! What happened to our “Three Amigos?” I have not been so disappointed, since the Nevada and UCLA loses. We have lost three games this year because our PG just didn’t play as a true PG: UConn, Utah and Memphis. The Arizona loss was just poor team defense and Portland, well they wanted it more. The Zags have just played poorly. The second half performance against WSU was just incredible. They executed at the start of that second half and we won a laugher! Where are out Zags?
My definition of a PG with the ball is like a painter with a paint brush and JP was horrible. Last night, he couldn’t have painted a barn red. It was just horrible to watch as our PG’s were just ineffective. They didn’t play defense and couldn’t distribute the ball.
We have been horrible all year in getting the ball to the post. Josh and Austin have been open soooo many times and we don’t get them the ball…I see frustration on their faces each game. In order for Josh to score in the paint he needs to get the ball at least 10-15 times each game. He doesn’t have to shoot each time but he needs to get it. I remember in Thursday’s game, when Bouldin and Foster were in a pick-n-role…Foster gave a great pick and Bouldin passed him the ball…Foster couldn’t handle the pass and it was a turnover. That was the first pass I can remember by him and too bad they don’t do that with Josh or Austin!
What is with “let me just take my man to the basket” playing…Memphis was so successful because their PG penetrated and dished or penetrated and shot and our big men had to LEAVE their man to pick-up the free PG and then there would be an dump for an easy basket…Am I the only one who doesn’t see JP doing this! We are going to be in big trouble next year if Meech can’t do a better job of distributing the ball.
A PG is supposed to get the “REST” of his team involved in the game…that isn’t happening! Meech might be quick and he plays decent defense BUT the book is open on him…he can’t shoot…he isn’t a threat accept to penetrate…he does dish pretty well compared to JP.
Also, please don’t throw out the argument that if we had Sacre then…
Daye once again just didn’t show up…Josh gave a valiant effort and Downs was the only bright spot. He came to play. No one has to worry about Daye leaving early; I can’t imagine his parents allowing him to leave until he is ready and doesn’t seem like that will happen until after his senior year.
Blocking out on the defensive boards is our “Achilles Heel” and has proven to be our down fall.
I have watched every game this year and not sure if we just weren’t prepared or Coach Few didn’t get the team read or they were just too pumped up…lets hope we can get it back together against a Mill-less SMC. Even on the road, we should win this one by 20+ points.

drogba11
02-08-2009, 01:52 PM
I actually agree with you on Josh not getting the ball like he use to. I was watching some old tape when he was healthy and Raivio was point. I know Jeremy is a special player, but to have a true point guard that is a little more effective feeding the post makes a big difference. I'm hoping meech develops into the true point guard we need. I think with his speed and excitement it's quite possible.

CaliforniaZaggin'
02-08-2009, 02:02 PM
Generally, things are never as good or as bad as they seem. Are the Zags as bad as they looked last night? No way. Did Memphis expose some things that the Zags will need to work on? Absolutely. Everyone just take a deep breath.

chirguy
02-08-2009, 03:56 PM
I love the Zags, but the zags are soft. If the Zags played the best team in the country and they weren't an aggressive defenders the Zags have a good shot to win. If the play a team that really pressures the ball they fold like a house of cards.

tobizag
02-08-2009, 07:10 PM
I love the Zags, but the zags are soft. If the Zags played the best team in the country and they weren't an aggressive defenders the Zags have a good shot to win. If the play a team that really pressures the ball they fold like a house of cards.

yeah, like how we folded against tennessee's pressure defense, right? oh wait...

ambition
02-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Consistency in this team is the problem... inconsistent defense, taking care of the ball, and intensity. During the Memphis game, the last 4 mintues is something I have been waiting to see all year from Gonzaga, they took chances on defense and actually had their hands up on D, it was quite a miracle to see this. I give the zags credit for hustling like they never have before until now this year during those final minutes... but wait...why dont they do this half the game, 3/4 of the game, or all the game.

It wasnt just their defense, it was their intensity and their drive to play hard.

I am sick and tired of seeing Daye run like a grandpa to get back on defense like the big guys do in the nba. It makes his effort look piss poor and I hope that he recognizes that.

But Gonzaga just doesnt play well together as a team consistent enough... it is apparent against greater teams. I understand that they were intimidated by Memphis, but they werent for the last few minutes, but a leader needs to step up, and like it or not the zags do not have one... Pargo is in never never land half the game and it is frustrating to watch, cause really can be a great player, but mentally he is a disaster.. maybe it is too late for them to turn it around, but we shall see... it is all anyone can do at this point.

I would love for them to demolish teams in the WAC from here on out, if they do that and have that killer mentality, they may do well in the tournament.

RenoZag
02-08-2009, 07:34 PM
For those who feel like they are on the edge of the ledge:





Go ahead and jump. Tired of your whining.

ZagLawGrad
02-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Worry comes only if you did not adjust your expectations for this team after that bad run in later December. But if you did adjust your expectations, then everything is on track----the Zags are beating their WCC opponents. They'll probably win the conference. They likely will get to the Dance.

kclubfounder
02-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Nice 3rd post BOZOZAG,

Why don't you get a little more hysterical? Your one other post prior to today was about the great Duke team. They sure have had a nice week.

jim77
02-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Consistency in this team is the problem... inconsistent defense, taking care of the ball, and intensity. During the Memphis game, the last 4 mintues is something I have been waiting to see all year from Gonzaga, they took chances on defense and actually had their hands up on D, it was quite a miracle to see this. I give the zags credit for hustling like they never have before until now this year during those final minutes... but wait...why dont they do this half the game, 3/4 of the game, or all the game.

It wasnt just their defense, it was their intensity and their drive to play hard.

I am sick and tired of seeing Daye run like a grandpa to get back on defense like the big guys do in the nba. It makes his effort look piss poor and I hope that he recognizes that.

But Gonzaga just doesnt play well together as a team consistent enough... it is apparent against greater teams. I understand that they were intimidated by Memphis, but they werent for the last few minutes, but a leader needs to step up, and like it or not the zags do not have one... Pargo is in never never land half the game and it is frustrating to watch, cause really can be a great player, but mentally he is a disaster.. maybe it is too late for them to turn it around, but we shall see... it is all anyone can do at this point.

I would love for them to demolish teams in the WAC from here on out, if they do that and have that killer mentality, they may do well in the tournament.

This may come as a shock to you but.....Memphis scored 68 points....not 98. Its our offense that is the problem. Lack of movement by everybody except the point. Did you expect Pargo to dribble through 3 tigers??? Why were 3 even able to 'D' up Pargo AND cover their man? Cause their man was standing in the corner..not moving...not screening...just basically waiting for Pargo to either force a shot or get it ripped off.They weren't muscling in for the rebound either. If you're waitng for pargo to win us a game going 1 on 5 you'll be waiting a while...and it certainly isn't going to happen against the studs from Memphis. I'm starting to believe that our defensive effort is hurting our offensive energy....maybe the coach should substitute more to help keep up the intensity on BOTH ends. More Meech...More Brown..more Downs...and earlier too.

zagfan08
02-08-2009, 08:49 PM
For those who feel like they are on the edge of the ledge:





Go ahead and jump. Tired of your whining.


Word.

BigTymeONIONS
02-08-2009, 10:31 PM
yeah, like how we folded against tennessee's pressure defense, right? oh wait...

As Jay Bilas correctly noted during the broadcast, Tennessee doesn't play defense nearly as hard or as well as Memphis. Just because UT presses and takes a lot of chances doesn't mean they play good pressure defense. Tennessee's D is no where near the level of Memphis. I think the stretch of 9 turnovers in 10 possessions in the first half proves that.

DixieZag
02-09-2009, 06:17 AM
I agree that those on a ledge about GU's loss to Memphis may as well jump, b/c they have not realized that this team is not the team that we thought they might be back in early December. Many of us adults have done what adults do when the facts in a situation change, we change our expectations.

I remember so well when Mark Few was confronted with questions about this being the best Zag team ever when they were 7-0 and he was so clear about it being WAY TOO EARLY to say anything like that, it just goes to show how little we know about the development of certain teams, and what it takes to win.

I know this, we played 2 games last week, against UP we played a very hungry, very confident team in a hostile environment, where probably a half dozen top 25 teams would have lost, but we played extremely well and pulled out a win. On Saturday, we played a team that probably would have beaten just about any team in the nation, as Coach Cal said they played "as good as we can play"-- VERY few teams would beat them when they are playing at that level, in addition, there are very few teams in the top 25 that we would have beaten with our effort Saturday night, for whatever reason we were intimidated and froze. Period.

All we can do is adjust our expectations, and hope to be pleasantly surprised and win a couple games in the tournament, but never give up hope, keep loyal to the Zags, and quit WHINING!

Zagpower
02-09-2009, 06:45 AM
Inconsistent play is the trademark of the new NCAA since it became vogue to leave early for the NBA. Teams are now playing freshman and sophomores significant more minutes than happened historically.

It's happened to every team this year including those normally consistent teams like Duke, UNC, etc. I blame it on youth and should make for another wide open NCAA Tourney.

tobizag
02-09-2009, 06:54 AM
As Jay Bilas correctly noted during the broadcast, Tennessee doesn't play defense nearly as hard or as well as Memphis. Just because UT presses and takes a lot of chances doesn't mean they play good pressure defense. Tennessee's D is no where near the level of Memphis. I think the stretch of 9 turnovers in 10 possessions in the first half proves that.

the poster i responded to didn't make any statements about good vs bad pressure. he said pressure.

ut pressed. we didn't fold.

we folded against memphis. inconsistency? yes. reason to believe the season is over? no.

i'd also like to point out that there seemed to be an inordinate amount of missed bunnies in that game where typically the ball rolls our way, and it just didn't. we got a lot of easy looks, but couldn't convert. on the other hand, memphis banked in a three, and got tons of shooter's rolls. sometimes, it just isn't your day.

former1dog
02-09-2009, 07:01 AM
For those who feel like they are on the edge of the ledge:





Go ahead and jump. Tired of your whining.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3749/cliffoutcropmxs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hey, come on over to the edge. The view is beautiful. Dangerous? Heck no!! :D

BobZag
02-09-2009, 10:16 AM
Damn.

I wanted just one more hot cut turkey sandwich from the Kennel Carvery. Oh well, next year...if GU doesn't drop basketball completely!

ZagLawGrad
02-09-2009, 10:20 AM
LOL.

But all funnin' aside, this team has done as much or more than any Zags team over the past 10 years to confirm the old cliche's---mainly that the WCC is a mediocre conference, and the Zags are a mid-major team with a fairly easy track to the Dance every year.

Hate to agree with Colin Cowherd, but it does indeed seem to be true. You are a true homer if you can't see some merit to the arguments and criticisms being made about the Zags this season.

former1dog
02-09-2009, 10:44 AM
WE'RE DOOMED!!!

ZagSlug
02-09-2009, 10:57 AM
http://www.thepelhams.org/zagpics/roadsignsaustin.jpg

MDABE80
02-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Humor makes it easier... well done fellas;)

DixieZag
02-09-2009, 01:28 PM
Yes, the WCC is mid-level. But that has nothing to do with the Zags "easy" road to the tourney every year, THAT IS a bunch of crap. Have you seen the schedules of most of the UConn's, UCLA's, ASU's and others currently in the top 25, they are lucky to play one decent game against decent competition, and generally at home. Gonzaga is forced to kill itself getting from place to place, playing a killer non-conference schedule like this years, b/c they KNOW, that playing in the WCC they must play strong out of conf. teams to get an at large bid, and they do not always win the tournament. I didn't hear Colin but I don't need to, he is a Seattle Pac 10 homer, civilization ends at the mountains for him.

Why am I even bothering? Nevermind, you are right, we are a bunch of pretenders, just one question though, how much different are things if that double clutch three pointer of Dyson hits nothing but air?

malmer7
02-09-2009, 02:57 PM
This is my last run at living in the past, then I'm on to Thursday's game.
So - where did Saturday's loss strike all of you the worst? I'm not going to sit here and tell everyone what they should feel about that game, but I think most of us fit into a handful of categories (could be a good poll question but I think it's better with full explanations):
1 - "Disgusted" with the shellacking we took and the effort put fourth by our team
2 - "Embarrassed" to come into work today and face those who caught the game on national television, embarrassed to say that was your team out there
3 - "Angry" that your team took punch after punch and refused to fight back
4 - "NBD", no big deal because it was just one game and now that we've lost, expectations will be lowered and we'll be more of a surprise come March, nothing could deter you from looking to the future through rose colored glasses
*I'm thinking most of us fit in one of these categories, if others thing there are other definitions for how you felt after Saturday's game I think we'd all like to hear them. That's all, now pay me $50 for today's session, thank you.

BobZag
02-09-2009, 03:04 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ByzUZjJPvu4/R0izypv0MgI/AAAAAAAAAGE/y2VCMgXRcR4/S240/lucy_the_psychiatrist.jpg
I feel disappointed, Lucy.

TacomaZAG
02-09-2009, 03:28 PM
in the EMBARRASSED category on this one. All the stars were aligned for us and we didn't even show up. I can take losing, I can absorb the beating, but this was the first time I can remember watching a ZAG team quit.

Hopefully we learn from it and use it as a motivator for March.

Go ZAGS

cggonzaga
02-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Have to disagree Dixie. Those teams may not play tough out of conference schedules but when you're a team from the Big East or ACC or Big 12 or Pac 10, you get more than you can handle in conference. They play twice as many tough games as we do in our OCC. Not to mention the good teams win most of those games, something we can't say we've done this year. Name one good win we have?

You people can joke all you want but this team isn't doing anything in March unless we get very favorable matchups and a few breaks here and there. I've never been more disappointed in a GU team than I am of this one. You can all point at our 17 wins but again, not one good one. If you can't get up for a nationally televised home game against a top 10 team in front of the Gameday crew, we sure as hell aren't getting up for the tournament. BZ has warned all year of this team being soft and not tough enough and it couldn't be more apparent than it is now.

P.S.

I don't want to hear how hot we're going to be going into the tournement because we'll probably win out against terrible competition (outside of Portland). I had NC aspirations before the season. Now I'd settle for somehow getting out of the first weekend.

ZagLawGrad
02-09-2009, 03:39 PM
Considering how up and down this team has proven to be, not surprised by the beat down on Saturday.

Want to say #4 and that life is still a bowl of cherries. But if had been put on the polygraph after that game, for a while there the meter would have shown a combination of 1, 2 and 3.

GPGUgrad
02-09-2009, 03:54 PM
$50 for a session is pretty cheap.

Can I hire you to listen to my problems? :)


5) In every game there is a winner and a loser. We've won more than lost right?

Understand your weaknesses, correct the wrong and move on to the next game. That simple.

ZagLawGrad
02-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Understand your weaknesses, correct the wrong and move on to the next game. That simple.

One would think so. But apparently easier said than done.

xjzico
02-09-2009, 04:07 PM
The loss got me when I thought how I might have been one of the fans at the arena. This was one of the few opportunities for many a fan to see their favorite team and we were rewarded with this performance? I’m not going to go after individual players and question their effort because frankly, they’ve given the effort before, so I know it’s something they can and most likely will do in the future. But whatever it was they did up to this game, it was not enough. They looked unprepared, unskilled, undisciplined and unintelligent.

That being said, it did bring a smile to my face when the fans got riled up when a little surge got the Zags within 20 with somewhere around 5:00 left in the game. In any practicality there was little chance of them overcoming such a huge margin but I still found myself saying, “Hey, why not”. In a way, to me, that's the Zag spirit.

dnj116
02-09-2009, 04:10 PM
I'll tell ya where it hurts the most: my wallet...ahh to have $65 again would be nice

vaboris
02-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Man I love these threads after losses...

229SintoZag
02-09-2009, 05:40 PM
I feel bad for Casey Calvary. He had more toughness himself than this team has on its roster.

It must pain him to see a team wearing the Zags uniform mail it in now twice in the same season (PSU and Memphis).

willandi
02-09-2009, 05:53 PM
Now that the season is over, will all you season ticket holders and students quit attending the rest of the games at the Mac??? The rest of us would love the chance to go and see these "losers", so when they make their run in March, we will have been to at least one game.
Thanks, Will

MickMick
02-09-2009, 05:56 PM
None of the above.

Give Memphis credit for playing extremely well. Having said that, my expectations for this particular Zag squad were lowered long ago.

Zagtana
02-09-2009, 06:04 PM
None of the above. I'd say disappointed is the word. I was confident the Zags had finally got their xxxx together, found the flow, found their roles. I was confident we actually had a shot of going deep into the big dance. Losing is one thing, getting run out of our own arena is something else. Now, I really have some serious doubts. Please Zags, prove me wrong.

Nevtelen
02-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Have to disagree Dixie. Those teams may not play tough out of conference schedules but when you're a team from the Big East or ACC or Big 12 or Pac 10, you get more than you can handle in conference. They play twice as many tough games as we do in our OCC. Not to mention the good teams win most of those games, something we can't say we've done this year. Name one good win we have?

You people can joke all you want but this team isn't doing anything in March unless we get very favorable matchups and a few breaks here and there. I've never been more disappointed in a GU team than I am of this one. You can all point at our 17 wins but again, not one good one. If you can't get up for a nationally televised home game against a top 10 team in front of the Gameday crew, we sure as hell aren't getting up for the tournament. BZ has warned all year of this team being soft and not tough enough and it couldn't be more apparent than it is now.

P.S.

I don't want to hear how hot we're going to be going into the tournement because we'll probably win out against terrible competition (outside of Portland). I had NC aspirations before the season. Now I'd settle for somehow getting out of the first weekend.

I totally agree. If this team somehow makes it out of the first weekend, I'll be elated (not to mention very very surprosed). The worst thing for me is that I have no idea how it came to this. How do you have this much talent on a team and have it be this totally mediocre? I fully believe the Zags will dominate the rest of the conference from here on out. This team can and will dominate lesser teams by impressive margins (usually). It's happened a lot this year. It makes them look like they have a killer instinct. But as soon as they go up against a good opponent who gets intense and in their face, they just fold.

In terms of pre-season expectations and reality, I honestly feel that this is by far the most dissapointing GU team I've ever watched in my 13 years of following GU.

rawkmandale
02-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Nice......I'll take an open seat too, in fact - one for me, one for my wife.

Thank you, and you may exit the ship now.

kclubfounder
02-09-2009, 06:21 PM
This team that only gets into the tournament because of it's weak conference, and is proving without a doubt how average they are THIS YEAR in particular, is ranked 19 and 21 in the polls this week, immediately following the Memphis game.

You negative glass-is-half-empty sorry sons of guns really should read some books that will help you enjoy life and smell roses.

McZag
02-09-2009, 06:29 PM
my expectations for this particular Zag squad were lowered long ago.

That's the key Mick. If you never expect this team to perform at any level you can never be disappointed.

BigTymeONIONS
02-09-2009, 06:35 PM
the poster i responded to didn't make any statements about good vs bad pressure. he said pressure.

ut pressed. we didn't fold.

we folded against memphis. inconsistency? yes. reason to believe the season is over? no.

i'd also like to point out that there seemed to be an inordinate amount of missed bunnies in that game where typically the ball rolls our way, and it just didn't. we got a lot of easy looks, but couldn't convert. on the other hand, memphis banked in a three, and got tons of shooter's rolls. sometimes, it just isn't your day.

I agree that it has more to do with inconsistency than just pressure d but it's important to make the distinction between good pressure and bad pressure defense. Tennessee pressures and gives up lay-ins where as Memphis does not. A team can be frenetic and pressure on defense while still being fundamentally sound and protecting the basket. Memphis does this better than anyone. That is the difference that I was trying to point out.

zagfan1
02-09-2009, 07:28 PM
This game stung a lot of Zag fans. We were on national tv, part of ESPN game day for the second time in school history, and we stunk up the place. I don't think anyone in their right mind could say that this loss was no big deal. This was a big bad loss and we need to remember it. I hope the coaches always remind them of this experience. You play like you really don't want to be there and you will get run out of the gym. This will test the true competitiveness of the Zags players. Do they really want to be successful or do they want to coast along and be mediocre? Memphis tested GU's will and GU could not sustain the intensity and effort needed.
I think its comical that we are all fired up about this loss. I wish the players could take 1/1000th of this passion and energy and use it going forward. They probably would be surprised of the outcome. But in the end this is just a game and the teams that are successful just want it more than the rest.

MickMick
02-10-2009, 04:32 AM
That's the key Mick. If you never expect this team to perform at any level you can never be disappointed.


My expectations were lowered. That means they were higher. This conflicts with...."never". I am disappointed with the team play. You write that I am incapable of that. You are wrong once again.

Please don't selectively quote, paraphrase, reference, or otherwise interpret my posts until you are accurate and/or reference my posts within the context of what I intend.

You are on the Few bashing bandwagon. That is all I need to know about you.