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View Full Version : Okay, Zag Fans, Time to Calm Down



BobZag
02-08-2009, 09:52 AM
Firstly, mods, feel free to start merging threads; there's a dozen threads on the same basic topic.

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Memphis is a very good team, under-rated, and they played outstanding ball. I couldn't believe how long and tall their lineup was when introduced. They all looked like tall spider people with endless wingspans. Prior Memphis squads had more of a football team look. See Joey Dorsey.

Give credit to the Tigers.

As for the Zags, I've been harping on this for a year: toughness, or lack there of. The team's mental approach/attitude was awful last night. Memphis hit Gonzaga in the mouth and instead of hitting back and fighting, the Zags chose to go to the ropes and take cover. The overall approach to this game has only been surpassed by the poor approach to the PSU game. The effort level was sadly lacking as well, but that falls under the whole approach thing.

But have the Zags had great approaches to games this season? Yes.
Can the Zags play tough? Yes.

A packed Arena and a large national audience thought they were going to see a great game where the Zags might even win, or so thought Vegas. Stats, results vs common foes (Tennessee), all indicated a close, hard-fought game. Instead, Gonzaga failed on all counts. It was disappointing, disheartening and as one fan lamented, it was discouraging.

But like I said before, these games are gonna happen, like it or not. It's not just a Zag thing. It's a Duke thing, it's a Wake Forest thing, it's a Clemson thing, it's a Michigan State thing, it's a Louisville thing, etc. No team is magically immune. What Zag fan would want to trade places with preseason top-10 teams Georgetown and Notre Dame?

Gonzaga didn't just lose to some unranked team that got lucky. Memphis is #14 and will soon be #10 or higher.

Now the team must move forward. They cannot dwell on this. It's late to be learning lessons, as Few said, but better late than never.

All the Zags have now is the WCC. Win it, win the tourney in Vegas, and go as deep as they can in the big dance. And keep working to become tougher. That means rebounding, defense, offense, and not submitting to what opposing teams want to dictate.

Let's attempt to be adults here and refrain from finger-pointing. Leave that to your children. Pargo has already said he's embarrassed. Bouldin and Daye have admitted they were out-toughed and didn't play hard enough to beat a team like Memphis. Mark Few feels sick that a crowd bigger than most towns in the state of WA saw this type of performance in person.

No need to pile on.

Buck up, get angry, treat the final seven regular season games as if they're each the last game of your career. That should be the seniors' credo.

Hats off to Memphis, I hope you win out, I honestly do.

Gonzaga, you've got work to do. No better time to start than now.

Areyoukiddingme
02-08-2009, 10:07 AM
:) :)

MDABE80
02-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Fans need to toughen up too BZ. GU has 5 losses....it's not alike a 10 loss season. We'll go the distance.even though the "distance" is the WCC. What we saw last night was a team that wins the WCC and plays like it. We get away with things in the WCC that just won't fly against the bigtime BCS teams.

Toughen up guys/gals. Kids didn't show up last night. WE...as fans...had no part in that. We had a future. We aren't a bigtime BCS program this year. Doesn't mean a 5 or 6 loss season is bad.it's just that we aren't quit as good as we thought we might be. BZ and I diverge a bit though. We have the talent to beat Memphis....I honestly believe that. Memphis is good. GU is better. As you all saw, for some reason.........the kids gave up before the tip. THAT one fact is beyond me.

ZagAddict
02-08-2009, 10:17 AM
Reality... GU is undefeated in their conference and have a 2+ game lead. They have everything in place to make the NCAA Tournament. Like BZ said... time to focus on conference games and the WCC tournament. The past is the past and nothing else matters at this point in the season... look staight forward:)

BobZag
02-08-2009, 10:22 AM
Agreed. In some ways, teams reflect their fans, and vice-versa.

The final line or two of MDABE80's post goes back to the team's approach.

This is not complicated. Get tougher, or else. Simple as that.

johnwzag
02-08-2009, 10:37 AM
Memphis is a very good team, under-rated, and they played outstanding ball. I couldn't believe how long and tall their lineup was when introduced. They all looked like tall spider people with endless wingspans.

The long arms were everywhere, in everyones face almost 100% of the time. If Memphis continues to play everybody like this, they have a shot at a national championship. Uconn was a tough game, but these guys...These guys shut us down.

DixieZag
02-08-2009, 11:36 AM
I honestly don't think there is a team in the country that could have beaten Memphis the way that they played last night. I am very disappointed at our effort, but like BZ said, Duke lost by 27, Xavier lost to Duquesne, Wake Forest, it goes on and on. Memphis beat Tennessee by 2, that shows us how they HAD been playing, not what they are now, what they are now, in my opinion is one of the top 5 teams in the country.

I believe that we expended a lot of energy Thursday night, beating a Portland team that would have beaten a half dozen teams in the top 25, and all lower half Pac 10 teams with the way they played on Thursday, but we came together and played one of our best games of the year. Less that 48 hours later, we just got knocked out in the first 5 minutes and didn't respond.

Maybe we needed this loss. Our guys now know where they are in terms of "national" perspective. I expect them to come to Moraga with a chip on their shoulders and play a great game, if not, then we will get beat. It is that simple. But I say we win and win easily.

Birddog
02-08-2009, 11:41 AM
Now it's some 14 hours since the start of the beat down, and I'm still in a quandary; am I disappointed or disgusted in the loss? I can handle disappointment, but I'm wavering toward disgust, and that doesn't sit well. At some point in the first half when Memphis got up by17, I tried to regroup my thoughts and stop yelling at the TV. I told myself, hell, we've been here before. Weren't we down by 17 to UNC a couple years back (my memory could be off on this) and we came roaring back, even leading them by 17 at one point IIRC. I'm thinking, hell yeah, we can do this,we just need a TO and a little regrouping. It was not to be. It wasn't long after that, either late in the first or early in the second, that the TV director put up a shot of the Zag Coaches. There sat Few, Giacolleti, and Rice all in a row, and all with their faces buried in their hands. They looked dazed and confused. it was at that moment that I knew it was over for sure. They had no answer, no life, no animation. They had nothing and neither did the team on the floor.

Much has been said on this board on the various threads about the Zags lacking confidence, or that benching them will destroy their confidence. I'm calling BS on that. BB is like the real world (not counting Wall St here), you don't perform you get benched, confidence be damned. Not one time did any one of the announcers say anything about them lacking confidence, instead it was apparent to them (Bilas and Knight) that the Zags lacked any fight, desire, toughness, etc. Put in some guys that "want it", and finally they did. Meech, Gray, and Brown still have me wavering on that tightrope between disappointment and disgust, thankfully. I'll give it some more time.

Reborn
02-08-2009, 12:00 PM
We made a great fight in the last 8 minutes of the game. Finally, Few decided to press, and push the ball up court fast (with Meech). It was not a case of Memphis taking it easy on the Zags. No. It was that we finally had some guys playing with fire in their heart. And we finally played Zag basketball which is NOT ZONE, and an UP TEMPO GAME. Attack, attack, attack. Great effort by Zags. Too bad we didn't play at that tempo the whole game.

Playing zone, not pressing, and not playing an up-tempo game is what killed the Zags. When we let them get their defense set, as we did the entire first half, they killed us. It was turn-over city. In the second half when we pushed it up, quickened the pace, and played mostly man to man we hold them to 28 points. Versus 40 in the first half, most of which came against the zone defense.

The announcers were totally wrong about our defenses (I've watched the game 3 times now. We went into the zone in the first half at 12:00 left in the first half. The score was 15-10. Memphis immediately hit a 3 pointer which made it 17-10. In the next 4 minutes and 20 seconds we turn the ball over 8 out of 10 times down court. The zone appears to be holding, as Memphis only scores 6 points in those four minutes. But in the last 7 minutes they rip our Zone apart and score 19 points. They are up 40-23 at the half.

Zags start in man to man again in the second half. At the 13 minute mark it is 53-33. They only outscore us by 3 pts in 7 min. Then we go into a zone again. That makes absolutely NO SENSE to me. Why go into a Zone when you are down by 20 with 13 min to go in the game. Memphis immediately misses a shot, get the offensive rebound and hits a three. So its now 56-33, but Few will stay in the zone for 6 more minutes. Memphis begins to really slow the game down against the zone taking off precious minutes. They slowly build a 26 point lead against that wonderful zone, and finally Few wakes up and decides to full-court press, and change the whole game. In the last 8 minutes, by pressing and pushing the ball up court, we outscore them by 8 points. AND THEY WERE NOT TAKING IT EASY ON US.

Mark Few has had a love affair with his precious zone defense over the years, and it has cost us a lot of big games. I think the zone is an affective weapon for the Zags this year, but only when it is played sparingly as a surprise. It was affective last night at times, but the longer we stayed in the zone, Memphis adjusted and began to take advantage of it. At we also rebounded horrible in that zone.

This is not a bad Zag team. WE just need the right game plan.

CaliforniaZaggin'
02-08-2009, 12:07 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this question, so I'll just post it here... Did anyone see and/or talk to Elias Harris at the game last night? Our friends at SSF mentioned he was in town and went to the Gameday festivities yesterday morning.

gozags09
02-08-2009, 12:49 PM
...(which Abe will find amusing). The Team flat out didn't bring what it takes, and will take, to beat an extremely aggressive, talented Team. It isn't the end of the program...Memphis is good. The Team was very bad last night. This is not the first program to get an ass-kicking, when most of the world thought that they could compete and win (see UNC vs Kansas final four 2008 among hundreds of examples).

The Team needs to get tougher as a Team. One individual seems to be the target of many...he didn't lose the game.... The Team lost the game.

I don't know how far we will go, but I do think that we have the talent to play with, and beat, anyone on any given night...but we have to play as a Team. We have had flashes of this...in fact we started the season in Orlando that way...but since then, it just isn't consistent enough. Gut check time, again. Run the rest of the WCC schedule and WCC tourney...figure it out...toughen up...play together.

We, as fans have to be tougher too...several dozen other programs in the country wish that they could have had just one of our last ten years.

All IMHO...

N texas 509er
02-08-2009, 01:00 PM
[QUOTE=BobZag;360980]Firstly, mods, feel free to start merging threads; there's a dozen threads on the same basic topic.

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"Memphis is a very good team, under-rated, and they played outstanding ball. I couldn't believe how long and tall their lineup was when introduced".

Bob- really have to agree. Was out of town and couldn't watch the Memphis game, but I did see them play SMU early in the week. They have big bodies and take up a lot of space, but was also surprised by the athletics they have at almost all positions. Did talk to a couple of Tigar fans and I know that they were very concerned about GU going into Spokane (just had an e-mail from one this morning and he thought Zags just simply had a bad game... happy to take the win but wasn't putting them in the top 10 just yet - although I agrue that they should be)

Buck up - use it to win the WCC and in Vegas. Good teams are going to go at us hard early, so the toughness is a must

later

TexasZagFan
02-08-2009, 01:04 PM
Damn, this can't be the same team that whipped WSU in Pullman, is it?

I'm just hopin' the team gets back on a roll in time for March Madness.

Ezag
02-08-2009, 01:33 PM
Yah it was disappointing and flat out embarrassing. I was at the arena and felt sorry for the fans and especially all the kids --they got hosed. To lose a hard fought battle is one thing, but to wuss out and not even try is pathetic.
(Downs is excused from my tirade)

dim4sum
02-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Maybe the team was psyched up for Portland--a game that gave them a decent lead in conference play, and will be equally psyched up for its game to come against St Mary's, eager to prove that the victory at home was no fluke.
Then comes this sandwich game--completely unnecessary in the middle of league play--mainly to hype revenues and hype the already hyped importance of big dance seedings. The fans were salivating, but maybe in the back of players' minds was the question: does this game really mean that much anyway? We can still lose and sweep our league.
Maybe some were thinking, let's save our energy for St Mary's.

gamagin
02-08-2009, 03:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

77Zag
02-08-2009, 03:30 PM
Damn, this can't be the same team that whipped WSU in Pullman, is it?

I'm just hopin' the team gets back on a roll in time for March Madness.

We'll be ready -- We are the same team, just a bad night.

Let's go to SMC and whip up on them - we will, we shall. All will be good again.

BobZag
02-08-2009, 04:35 PM
Now it's some 14 hours since the start of the beat down, and I'm still in a quandary; am I disappointed or disgusted in the loss? I can handle disappointment, but I'm wavering toward disgust, and that doesn't sit well. At some point in the first half when Memphis got up by17, I tried to regroup my thoughts and stop yelling at the TV. I told myself, hell, we've been here before. Weren't we down by 17 to UNC a couple years back (my memory could be off on this) and we came roaring back, even leading them by 17 at one point IIRC. I'm thinking, hell yeah, we can do this,we just need a TO and a little regrouping. It was not to be. It wasn't long after that, either late in the first or early in the second, that the TV director put up a shot of the Zag Coaches. There sat Few, Giacolleti, and Rice all in a row, and all with their faces buried in their hands. They looked dazed and confused. it was at that moment that I knew it was over for sure. They had no answer, no life, no animation. They had nothing and neither did the team on the floor.

Much has been said on this board on the various threads about the Zags lacking confidence, or that benching them will destroy their confidence. I'm calling BS on that. BB is like the real world (not counting Wall St here), you don't perform you get benched, confidence be damned. Not one time did any one of the announcers say anything about them lacking confidence, instead it was apparent to them (Bilas and Knight) that the Zags lacked any fight, desire, toughness, etc. Put in some guys that "want it", and finally they did. Meech, Gray, and Brown still have me wavering on that tightrope between disappointment and disgust, thankfully. I'll give it some more time.

I think two things. 1) We fans had legit high hopes of winning this game and some I know felt certain the Zags were going to win, and 2) the way in which Memphis punched the Zags in the mouth and the Zags didn't respond, just kept taking taking punches and not punching back. That was incredibly disappointing and discouraging to me, and yes, for any competitive person like many fans here, it could feel disgusting. Disappointing seems to fit my feelings best. The Zags just didn't even compete. Frustrating also fits the bill. In blowout whuppings like these, many emotions surface.

Memphis was a tougher, more aggressive and more determined team than Gonzaga was last night.

That's the bitter pill we are all trying to digest here.

tigers618
02-08-2009, 07:03 PM
I love playing you guys. I think your school is great and I hope you go deep in the tournament. The best thing about our two programs is all that we can relate to each other. Neither typically getting the respect they deserve. Im stoked that they renewed the series and cant wait till we meet next season. Good Luck Dog fans!!


I keep posting this on different boards cuz I want Gonzage to know that the tigers love'em. Your the only teams and fans who dont talk (much) #### about our program and our coach just because of a loss in a game or a recruit. :D


I hope you guys see this post!!!!!!

tigers618
02-08-2009, 07:06 PM
We need that loss to Tenn. last year to put things in perspective. :::sniff-tear::::, but it helped like we never thought it would

Reborn
02-08-2009, 09:12 PM
I hope we keep playing them as well. I really like Coach Calipari a lot, and the more I watch his teams the more I like him. I perceive him as a great communicator, and I believe that's the most important skill in coaching. Unfortunately, the Tigers keep reminding us how far we still have to go in order to be an elite program like Memphis is. The Zags may never make it, but I know one thing, we will never give up the dream nor the hope. I think the Zag fans are equal to any. I love being part of this community.

Reborn
02-08-2009, 09:57 PM
I think two things. 1) We fans had legit high hopes of winning this game and some I know felt certain the Zags were going to win, and 2) the way in which Memphis punched the Zags in the mouth and the Zags didn't respond, just kept taking taking punches and not punching back. That was incredibly disappointing and discouraging to me, and yes, for any competitive person like many fans here, it could feel disgusting. Disappointing seems to fit my feelings best. The Zags just didn't even compete. Frustrating also fits the bill. In blowout whuppings like these, many emotions surface.

Memphis was a tougher, more aggressive and more determined team than Gonzaga was last night.

That's the bitter pill we are all trying to digest here.

Well put BZ. I've felt horrible all day. I seem to be taking this one worse than most. I just have a sick feeling inside. Thank God I have learned to live one day at a time. Tomorrow will be a new day, and I will feel somewhat better. I will try to remember that it's just a game, and really try to keep it in proper perspective. But, honestly, BZ. That is tough sometimes. It does make me feel somewhat better to know that I am not alone in how I feel, and that there are really a lot of people who feel badly today. I feel good that I feel close to and a part of the Zag fan family, and the special community of those who blog here. WE will have better days. That's for sure. Honestly, the board has been pretty respectful overall. I think there has been a lot of restraint compared to how it has been in the past. The one thing that keeps me going is knowing that most of us haven't given up on the Zags, and won't. WE will work through this emotional stuff and be ready for St. Mary's on Thursday. And I believe the Zags will be ready too. And I look forward to Thursday night with the same zest and the same anticipation that I always have when the Zags play.

malmer7
02-09-2009, 08:04 AM
great thread so i'd like to add my thoughts...
some fans are disappointed, some are disgusted, i get all that - i'm still sorting out which i feel (maybe both). however, i see a lot of posts advising posters to feel this way, to stop "whining" and just be happy we have 5 losses instead of 10, etc, etc.
in my opinion that is what makes our program (and this forum) so great, is that we can be disappointed after our 5th loss of the season and we can feel frustrated when our team doesn't provide the effort we feel is worthy of representing our university on a national stage.
i think that it's great fans come here to join in complaining and rejoicing at our teams peaks and valleys throughout the year and the stronger those feelings are the more comfortable i am that our program is one of the best.
i'm glad to be able to come on here and describe that saturday made me sick to my stomach and that i had to turn the game off part way through (for the first time ever) and i'm okay being criticized for it - just like i'll be glad to be back first thing wednesday morning getting myself and others fired up for the next one!
GO ZAGS!

tigers618
02-09-2009, 08:34 PM
I hope we keep playing them as well. I really like Coach Calipari a lot, and the more I watch his teams the more I like him. I perceive him as a great communicator, and I believe that's the most important skill in coaching. Unfortunately, the Tigers keep reminding us how far we still have to go in order to be an elite program like Memphis is. The Zags may never make it, but I know one thing, we will never give up the dream nor the hope. I think the Zag fans are equal to any. I love being part of this community.

Cals been with us 9 years, before he came along we were laughable at best, its been the past 5 years and intense recruiting and coaching that got us here. Hell, last year we couldnt buy respect untill we went to the Final Four, even though we trampled every team that was supposed to beat us ( see memphis vs. Texas in the elite 8 last year in THEIR house). Gonz will get there, morrison helped put the spotlight on them and recruits are watching....

UberZagFan
02-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Taggart 6'10
Dozier 6'9
Anderson 6'6
Evans 6'6
Mack 6'5
Kemp 6'2
Henderson-Niles 6'8
Sallie 6'5

Heytvelt 6'11
Daye 6'11
Bouldin 6'5
Gray 6'5
Pargo 6'2
Downs 6'8
Goodson 5'11
Brown 6'4

Not much of a difference and pretty interesting that the some of the "less lengthy" Zags contributed the most.