PDA

View Full Version : Is Memphis that good or Zags that bad?



Therunner
02-07-2009, 08:36 PM
I'll take the former...

surfmonkey89
02-07-2009, 08:40 PM
...it's a little of both.

I have a hard time saying Memphis is that good when 15 minutes checking out box scores over the last few years shows that everyone seems to play better against us, particularly shooting guards.

Still, Memphis was better than I expected. You don't go 13-0 by accident.

On the other hand, I don't think we're that bad. The issue - which imo is worse than us being "bad" wrt talent - is that we pretty much gave up.

I can't remember ever seeing that.

I was fully expecting at least a mini run to start the second half, but we came out like it was already over.

I can take getting beat. I can't take giving up.

I don't get it.

NorthWestZag
02-07-2009, 08:41 PM
Memphis is good.

Zags decided to take the night off. A holiday if you will. Phone in sick.

At least that is what I am hoping.

alaskazagnut
02-07-2009, 09:11 PM
We got sloppy and their defense is far superior than ours.

Zag4Hire
02-07-2009, 09:32 PM
I think Memphis is very good but the Zags played like they did during their worst game last year vs Texas Tech (sloppy ball handling, no movement, bad body language, etc.) but my big boggle with it was that it was on College Gameday from Spokane when we are supposed to be making our home stretch towards the tourney, not at an early season tourney where you can chalk it up to fine tuning.

Ezag
02-07-2009, 11:43 PM
Memphis is good but I not that good. They only scored 24 points in the 2nd half, we were within 13 with 4 minutes left and we played like ####. If we just had one of our starting five have a decent game we could have one this

77Zag
02-08-2009, 06:56 AM
Memphis is a very good, athletic and quick side
The Zags had a very rare night where Bouldin, Gray, Daye and Pargo were all no-shows. We can afford one out to lunch, not a team picnic where they all sit on the blanket and eat pie.

Most all of our poor performance was attitude, desire and preparation - No "eye of the tiger" for the Zags -- Memphis certainly had it, no pun intended.

It wasn't our night, period.

Just have to say, so much hype by ESPN all day and then we lay an egg and have a picnic certainly will not help our seed.

adallastiger
02-08-2009, 06:59 AM
....maybe a bit early. He did not want to embarrass Mark Few, for whom he has great respect.

I think we shut it down a bit early however.

daddyodewy
02-08-2009, 07:37 AM
....maybe a bit early. He did not want to embarrass Mark Few, for whom he has great respect.

I think we shut it down a bit early however.


Memphis is a very good, athletic and quick side
The Zags had a very rare night where Bouldin, Gray, Daye and Pargo were all no-shows. We can afford one out to lunch, not a team picnic where they all sit on the blanket and eat pie.

Most all of our poor performance was attitude, desire and preparation - No "eye of the tiger" for the Zags -- Memphis certainly had it, no pun intended.

It wasn't our night, period.

Just have to say, so much hype by ESPN all day and then we lay an egg and have a picnic certainly will not help our seed.



The TIGERS showed up ready to play.

Our defense was awesome for 30 minutes. We made very few mistakes on defense. It's obvious a few of your major contributors had an off night.....but I think anyone fairly assessing what they saw, would have to admit that at least some of their "off night" performance, was due to our excellent defensive play.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but it appeared to me that we somewhat intimidated your guys.

I also think the Thurday night game hurt you. You guys expended a lot of physical and emotional energy.

And this TIGER fan wants to play you in the Kennel. Killer college basketball atmosphere.

kclubfounder
02-08-2009, 07:52 AM
That goes something like "You're never as good as you think after a win or as bad as you think after a loss".

cbbfanatic
02-08-2009, 07:59 AM
prior to last night, memphis had beaten tennessee and uab - we all know how suspect tennessee has been this year. this year they have lost to georgetown, syracuse and xavier.

not a dynamite resume. gonzaga just played terribly and isnt really a great team to begin with, fringe top 25

daddyodewy
02-08-2009, 08:32 AM
prior to last night, Memphis had beaten tennessee and uab - we all know how suspect tennessee has been this year. this year they have lost to georgetown, syracuse and xavier.

not a dynamite resume. gonzaga just played terribly and isnt really a great team to begin with, fringe top 25

You are 100% correct [ in regard to the above bolded part ]. But you must not stop there. Also correct is the team you saw play last night was not the same team that lost to GT, Syracuse, and Xavier.

We switched Tyreke to the point and and we've gotten better and better and better. One would make a terrible mistake in judging us now by what happened then.

cbbfanatic
02-08-2009, 08:38 AM
daddyodewy

i agree that judging teams by what they did in november and december is often a mistake as most teams change significantly (for better or worse) from the preseason to the middle of conference play, but in the case of memphis, there just isnt anything else to really look at... i mean, what other games are we supposed to take anything away from?

that being said, memphis is a team that will give serious fits to the softer teams around with their length and aggression on the defensive end. jump shooting woes could doom this years tigers though.

zagzilla
02-08-2009, 09:01 AM
Memphis is a talented team that is getting better. Evans was very impressive and is a nightmare matchup. Nice get Tigers. Dozier was exactly what you expected from a senior on the winningest group of players in men's CBB history. They are that good.

Gonzaga peaked at the OSC and is trading on it's reputation at the moment. Dangerous on any given night and capable of beating anybody but not of winning 7 (make that 6) games in the dance. Potential doesn't make champions, REALIZED potential does.

Oh and by the way-little things count. I counted 6 missed layups in the 1st half by GU. We all know about the 7 TO's in 8 trips. Give Memphis credit for some of that but that was mostly us. That is about concentration and where the game was really lost.


ZZ

kclubfounder
02-08-2009, 09:11 AM
Thank God we only need to win 6 games in the dance! :)

jim77
02-08-2009, 09:55 AM
Good point KCF!

Hopefully the selection committe will put us FAR FAR away from Memphis!

Section 116
02-08-2009, 10:32 AM
Leon Rice's postgame radio comments last evening included the astounding lack of effort and production on the part of numerous Zags, a comment reiterated in the Spokesman-Review by Few. Ergo players to the bench. Few and Rice both said the whole town was ready and the many of the players didn't hold up their end of the bargain. As mentioned in other threads, it happens, see Duke, Wake Forest, et.al.!

johnwzag
02-08-2009, 10:42 AM
We will know in March how good Memphis is. Probably not until then.

Hextall7388
02-08-2009, 10:49 AM
It's a bit of both in my opinion.

Memphis is a very talented team, coached by someone that ensures his team shows up to play each and every game. They are a top 10 team, no question!

Gonzaga continued its Jekyll & Hyde season. When they come to play, they can compete with any team in the country. Inconsistency remains the big issue for the Zags. Frankly, I can't seem to put my finger on it.

To me, the biggest disappointment is not that they lost to a very good team last night, it is how they lost. Several players did not show up to play last night and it blows my mind. I could somewhat understand it, or at least explain it if they were playing Santa Clara or LMU and simply underestimated their opponent or that they were looking past their opponent. This was not the case though. This was a top 20 opponent, in the sold out Spokane Arena, a nationally televised game and some of the team came out sleepwalking?

Some of the blame must fall on Few too. He was unable to motivate his players before or during the game, he came in with a game plan that did not work and was not working and he was unable to make the necessary changes during the game to counter what Memphis was doing.

It's nights like last night when I really miss seeing the passion and desire to win that Ammo brought to the floor when he wore the Zags uniform.

daddyodewy
02-08-2009, 04:58 PM
daddyodewy

i agree that judging teams by what they did in november and december is often a mistake as most teams change significantly (for better or worse) from the preseason to the middle of conference play, but in the case of memphis, there just isnt anything else to really look at... i mean, what other games are we supposed to take anything away from?
that being said, memphis is a team that will give serious fits to the softer teams around with their length and aggression on the defensive end. jump shooting woes could doom this years tigers though.


I agree....if all I saw were the Gt...Syracuse, and Xavier games, I'd share the same opinion.

I was trying to be informative in describing the situation.

I think this has helped us......being somewhat under the radar......because we needed to get better and we did that mostly out of the spotlight. We'll see if last night's high quality of play continues. If it does....we'll be playing well enough to make a deep run.

gamagin
02-08-2009, 05:16 PM
Does coach calipari always coach throughout the game ? I noticed last night that he was either on the court, squatting, or standing and yelling and engaging his players essentially every minute of the game.

At times it reminded me of a scrimmage, as if he were fussing and encouraging and, I would assume, scolding and calling plays, too, right up to the last second. He managed fouls and substitutions throughout, too, and rarely, if ever sat down. If he wasn't working the refs, he was working the players, and I posit, the plays.

As close a friend as he is w/Few, and as good a coach as he is, if i were king, I'd have complained that there were six men on the court way too often during that game. He had more minutes on the court and inbounds than pargo, imo.

Otoh, if no one complains, why shouldn't he ?

Wondering if does or gets away with that at home or elsewhere ?

thanks, and best wishes for the rest of the season. whatever it is you guys are doing defensively, it's the best I've seen this year.

BobZag
02-08-2009, 05:17 PM
Good thread. I give Memphis all the credit in the world, though. Memphis is tougher, more aggressive, more determined. At least, last night they sure were.

Combine that with the worst/weakest approach to a game by the Zags all year, sans PSU, and you get...

A blowout.

And yes, the Zags were intimidated after awhile. That both surprised me and disappointed me. But it was what it was.

thespywhozaggedme
02-08-2009, 05:52 PM
The TIGERS showed up ready to play.

Our defense was awesome for 30 minutes. We made very few mistakes on defense. It's obvious a few of your major contributors had an off night.....but I think anyone fairly assessing what they saw, would have to admit that at least some of their "off night" performance, was due to our excellent defensive play.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but it appeared to me that we somewhat intimidated your guys.

I also think the Thurday night game hurt you. You guys expended a lot of physical and emotional energy.

And this TIGER fan wants to play you in the Kennel. Killer college basketball atmosphere.

Consider yourself corrected. We play more BcS teams then any other MM school in the nation, by far, see UConn, Arizona, Tennessee (twice) year in and year out, there wasn't one ounce of intimidation. Was Duke intimated when they lost by 27 at Clemson. A coach can teach offensive, a coach can teach defense, a coach can not teach heart and desire, well, your coach can. Ours can not.

daddyodewy
02-08-2009, 05:52 PM
Does coach calipari always coach throughout the game ? I noticed last night that he was either on the court, squatting, or standing and yelling and engaging his players essentially every minute of the game.

At times it reminded me of a scrimmage, as if he were fussing and encouraging and, I would assume, scolding and calling plays, too, right up to the last second. He managed fouls and substitutions throughout, too, and rarely, if ever sat down. If he wasn't working the refs, he was working the players, and I posit, the plays.

As close a friend as he is w/Few, and as good a coach as he is, if i were king, I'd have complained that there were six men on the court way too often during that game. He had more minutes on the court and inbounds than pargo, imo.


Otoh, if no one complains, why shouldn't he ?

Wondering if does or gets away with that at home or elsewhere ?

thanks, and best wishes for the rest of the season. whatever it is you guys are doing defensively, it's the best I've seen this year.


Yes, that's Cal. Every game. He doesn't let any player do the wrong thing and not yell at him about it. You have to be able to take it......and believe it or not....the scrimmages are more intense. But they quickly realize all he is doing is trying to make them better.

He also yells at refs alot.......that's just Cal He's a character, a great motivator.

Nothing goes uncorrected.....even when it comes to the clean up guys. He strives for perfection at all times.

There are lots of ways to do it.....that's Cal's

MickMick
02-08-2009, 05:56 PM
I would not be shocked to see Memphis in the final again.

Their best player will have a full season under his belt. To advance deep into the post season requires stellar (flawless actually) play from the point.

Ask yourself this.....what point has shown you more this season than Evans did Saturday night? Mills took the Zags to the cleaners from the perimeter, but Evans has every facet covered. He is also much bigger than Mills. Evans attacked the paint, distributed, and shot the ball extremely well. He was stifling on the defensive end. Couple him with Anderson and Dorsey and you have the makings of a great, great team.

The Tigers are tough, tough, tough. Long, athletic, and they play with intensity. They are well coached and are conditioned to attack at both ends. All of them. As of now, I would put my money on Memphis to take the whole ball of wax.

daddyodewy
02-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the response....maybe not intimidated....you would certainly know your team better than me....maybe tired....maybe frustrated......but there seemed to me to be a look in their eyes that wasn't a positive one.

Of course there is always the possibility that I've totally overintellectualized the situation.

It's really all moot by now. We're going our way and you guys are going yours.

See ya next year

ZagLawGrad
02-08-2009, 06:16 PM
Not surprised to see the Zags get beat soundly by Memphis. Memphis is in a different league physically and skill wise. And in how they play with intensity and determination.

It was clear in later December that the Zags were going to struggle against the big time programs despite their earlier success at the OSC. I adjusted my expectations-----look for the Zags to win the WCC, perhaps win the WCC Tourney, end up with a trip to the Dance---anything else would be pure gravy.

Blood Simple
02-08-2009, 06:35 PM
I may be biased but To answer the OP I think Memphis is That good. We started the season ranked 13th. We plummeted in the polls due to early losses when we were playing musical chairs at the PG spot. But since Reke has taken over this is a completely different team. And IMO easily better defensively than we were at this point last season.

Bob knight said himself that for 30 minutes Memphis looked better than any team we have seen this season.


I would not be shocked to see Memphis in the final again.

Their best player will have a full season under his belt. To advance deep into the post season requires stellar (flawless actually) play from the point.

Ask yourself this.....what point has shown you more this season than Evans did Saturday night? Mills took the Zags to the cleaners from the perimeter, but Evans has every facet covered. He is also much bigger than Mills. Evans attacked the paint, distributed, and shot the ball extremely well. He was stifling on the defensive end. Couple him with Anderson and Dorsey and you have the makings of a great, great team.

The Tigers are tough, tough, tough. Long, athletic, and they play with intensity. They are well coached and are conditioned to attack at both ends. All of them. As of now, I would put my money on Memphis to take the whole ball of wax.

I forget who it was during that telecast mentioned that at this point Tyreke is the best freshman in the country. I'd have to agree. He can get to the basket at will. And hes massive for a point guard which makes him a handful at both ends of the court.

We still have a lot of work to do on offense, but we had a pretty decent freshman at the point last year and we didn't do to shabby in the dance.

tigers618
02-08-2009, 06:53 PM
I love playing you guys. I think your school is great and I hope you go deep in the tournament. The best thing about our two programs is all that we can relate to each other. Neither typically getting the respect they deserve. Im stoked that they renewed the series and cant wait till we meet next season. Good Luck Dogs

tigers618
02-08-2009, 07:40 PM
Go tigers, Good luck Gonz.

4AmericasTeam
02-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Memphis is very good, but last night we were like Tiger Woods shooting 79 -- a bad day but there's always tomorrow.

gamagin
02-08-2009, 07:51 PM
Yes, that's Cal. Every game. He doesn't let any player do the wrong thing and not yell at him about it. You have to be able to take it......and believe it or not....the scrimmages are more intense. But they quickly realize all he is doing is trying to make them better.

He also yells at refs alot.......that's just Cal He's a character, a great motivator.

Nothing goes uncorrected.....even when it comes to the clean up guys. He strives for perfection at all times.

There are lots of ways to do it.....that's Cal's

It's very effective. The game, from memphis' perspective, was like an ongoing clinic. I liked the interaction and felt that there was no confusion among the players as a result. He was quick to move or remove players, call timeout and basically keep his influence front and center the whole way.

Clearly, it worked.

good luck and best regards,

malmer7
02-09-2009, 07:52 AM
I love playing you guys. I think your school is great and I hope you go deep in the tournament. The best thing about our two programs is all that we can relate to each other. Neither typically getting the respect they deserve. Im stoked that they renewed the series and cant wait till we meet next season. Good Luck Dogs

yeah, why wouldn't memphis renew the series, 4-0 now and seemingly getting easier by the year.
great showing by the tigers, they surpassed my expectations that's for sure. the tigers are always going to play hard under coach cal, but they really executed their game plan to a T and provided the hustle and enthusiasm to make all those small plays go their way.
i like the idea of extending the series as well, but i sure hope few can pull some surprise out of his sleeve within the next few years to make things a little more competitive because we're clearly being out-schemed at this point in the series.

cjm720
02-09-2009, 08:12 AM
Memphis is a much better team, top to bottom. Period. The cupcake WCC schedule provided the team, and us as fans, a false sense of reality. We can play with the best in the country but only if we play our absolute best, and we didn't even come close to brining it Saturday.

Kudos to Memphis. Coach Cal is one of the classiest and best coaches in the nation. That Evans kid is impressive. We had no answer down low.

I've said for a while that our team is completely different without Rob, and a team like Memphis will easily exploit us. Of course, that factor doesn't address many of the glaring issues (4 turnovers in a 2.5 minute span by one player; not taking open 3s and a general lethargic approach to offense; not subbing players when they could help, IMO).

I do believe Few made some tough and deserved choices with the benching of Pargo, Bouldin, and Daye. Our starters are coming off their best statistical performance ever, after the Portland win. Few had to give his starters credit and the opportunity to mount a comeback. It didn't happen, but the story's not over. I think more than anyone, Few has learned the most from this sobering loss.

Congrats to the Tigers....and GO ZAGS!!!

tigers618
02-09-2009, 08:25 PM
yeah, why wouldn't memphis renew the series, 4-0 now and seemingly getting easier by the year.
great showing by the tigers, they surpassed my expectations that's for sure. the tigers are always going to play hard under coach cal, but they really executed their game plan to a T and provided the hustle and enthusiasm to make all those small plays go their way.
i like the idea of extending the series as well, but i sure hope few can pull some surprise out of his sleeve within the next few years to make things a little more competitive because we're clearly being out-schemed at this point in the series.

yea, but it would still be fun if you guys were up 4-0 on us, I am certain Gonz will get us when we least expect it...next year maybe????

McZag
02-10-2009, 03:20 AM
Memphis is good.

Zags decided to take the night off. A holiday if you will. Phone in sick.

At least that is what I am hoping.

More like, Memphis is very good and the Zags quit, went on unemployment and would have rather stayed home and watched someone else play the game on TV.

Reborn
02-10-2009, 06:31 AM
Memphis had the right game plan for the Zags, and the team executed it to perfection. The Zags had a poor game plan, imo. You will not compete with Memphis if you play zone as much as Gonzaga did. And obviously you can press them. We did not pressure Evans enough. We let him have his way all night long. Jeremy Pargo did not come to play. I've seen him play good, hard defense, and I've seen him coast. He coasted all night. Evans, as Jay Bilas kept saying, goes right 90% of the time, yet the Zags never once overplayed him to his right in order to FORCE him to go left.

Memphis is that good. If they play that way they will make it to the elite 8 for sure. Gonzaga is not that bad. I really believe that. We are much better. We were not prepared for the kind of defense that they play. The guys just hadn't seen it. Bob Knight said that, and I agree. That's why that game helped us a lot. We have seen it, and we will hopefully adjust to that because we will see it again.

What killed us against Memphis was our inability to hit anything from outside. In that sense this game reminded me of the Nevada game in Key Arena a few years back. The Zags had a great team that year. And we just couldn't hit an outside shot that night. It happens. Unfortunately, that game was in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully, our Memphis game this year will not be duplicated in the NCAA Tourney. Josh, Matt, Steven and Jeremy will not be that off the rest of the year, imo. Even if we play Memphis again they will not be that off. So, yes. Gonzaga is much better than they were against Memphis last Saturday. That was just one game.

HillBillyZag
02-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Kudos to Memphis for a great performance and a great team. No doubt Cal is the right man in the right place, but as far it goes he is not well liked by many in the coaching fraternity.