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Fonebone
03-18-2007, 08:19 PM
We are probably like most schools' fans in this regard, but many of our threads regarding the talent coming in, and returning, have comments like "some of the best talent in the nation" "the best bench in the country" and similar thoughts. Certainly we will have a lot of talent. As many feel, perhaps the best that we have ever had - on paper. But thats the rub - on paper. Wild ass guess I would say that 15 or 20 programs - on paper - have the level of talent we will. We know these kids, and we love them, and we know what they can do - but very seldom do all the players play up to their potential.

I think that we have the # 5 ranked incoming class - at least according to one service. But that is our first ever ranked class. What about schools that have had top 10 or 20 ranked classes year after year ? What about all the burger all americans that all went somewhere else ?

It is great to be enthused - we should be. But I think we need to be realistic. If there is one thing that the Zags have proven the last 10 years, it is that a lot more goes into a winning team than highly rated players, because while we have had some highly rated players the last few years, we have clearly been more successful than the "on paper" analysis would have predicted.

So what is my point exactly ? I'm not really sure - perhaps just that we need to recogize that we will have a lot of good raw material next season, and my guess is that we will be a top 25 team, perhaps to 15 team by the end of the year, but that on paper we should not be viewed as one of the top 10 programs. But I don't claim to have a handle on the talent level of the other top programs - what do you think ?

CDC84
03-18-2007, 10:08 PM
I think Few and Co. are in for their toughest coaching job ever. Not only must they negotiate the trying process of incorporating Josh and Theo back into the fold, but once they are incorporated, there are so many good players on the roster that it will be hard to figure out how to dish out the minutes. There are inevitably going to be guys getting less than 10 MPG that would be getting, say, 20 MPG 5 years ago.

Do the staff attempt a different coaching strategy...say, like full court press much of the time? That's one way to play a lot of players and keep everyone more satisfied.

I think it will take some time for these things to be sorted out. As a result, it might take a month or two before Gonzaga really starts coming together. I would really like to see Gonzaga take it a bit easy with the first part of the non-league schedule. That is one of the advantages of playing in the Great Alaska Shootout next season...the field isn't an overwhelming field, but it isn't filled with cupcakes either. The 3 games in a short time span will allow the staff to get most of the guys some good game experience.

sittingon50
03-18-2007, 10:46 PM
Yes fone, I think this is the best course. Some teams get Top 5 recruiting classes EVERY year (;) ) & still don't get Invited!

Bulldoggie
03-18-2007, 10:51 PM
I really get tired of all the posts which speculate that players are leaving the program early for the Pro's. After watching many hours of this years tournament and seeing the talented players there is no way that Josh, Jeremy or Matt are ready to make the move. Look how Adam is struggling and he was probably the greatest talent to ever come out of Gonzaga. Look how Dan, Richy and Ronny struggled to just make a roster.

I don't think we are doing anyone any favors with that kind of banter. It raises unrealistic expectations for the team, the players and us fans. The naysayers on this forum have turned what I consider as a very successful season ,given all of the circumstances' into a something less. But I assume those posters who are students are all going to graduate as Magna Cum Laudes and the rest of them are all CEO's of their Companies. If not I assume that they all consider themselves as failures in life

sittingon50
03-18-2007, 11:00 PM
Huh?

DrDrivel
03-18-2007, 11:13 PM
Look how Adam is struggling and he was probably the greatest talent to ever come out of Gonzaga.

Is this point meant to suggest that Gonzaga's talent should be immediately discounted by a set amount? If so, how much? Further, what does this have to do with anything else in this thread?

Adam is being utilized strangely in Charlotte. He's not given the room to be a scorer. He's being utilized as a set shooter - told to camp out on the wing and wait for the ball. It's not how he's ever played and it will take time for him to get good at what is essentially a new job. This should have no bearing on the analysis of further talent coming out of Gonzaga University's basketball program.

Bulldoggie
03-18-2007, 11:22 PM
Cmon 50. You know what I am talking about. The guys win a game and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. They lose one and suddenly they are a bunch of Slugs. Not accusing you of being one of those dasterdly posters.

CDC84
03-19-2007, 12:10 AM
There are 7 guys on next year's roster that I could see getting their name called by David Stern one day, but none of them, I repeat, NONE of them are close to being ready yet, and it is unlikely that all 7 will get there in the end. The odds are against it.

Nonetheless, the fact that those guys actually exist does give you some hope, as a GU fan, that the future is bright. The key is to not get carried away with it as a fan. We are just talking about what is possible. It's not reality, or how it will all turn out in the end.

I think there needs to be more of a balance on this board at times between properly recognizing the natural gifts that certain players have, but at the same time, not assuming that those gifts will automatically translate into greatness. There is a lot of truth to what Fonebone is saying.

I mean, I think people should have the freedom to say, "I could see so and so in a NBA uniform one day," without it being interpreted as an absolute declaration that that player is destined to be a 1st Team AA and a NBA All Star within 6 months. I really sensed that reaction in the past when certain posters made such obviously true observations regarding Heytvelt's natural ability and athleticism, for instance.

Bulldoggie
03-19-2007, 07:55 AM
Dr D, my post was not meant in any way to degrade the accomplishments of Adam or for that matter any our other former players. I am just saying that we tend to set the bar so high for our current and future players that they can't meet those standards in the short term.

I don't want us to be pessimists but I just think we need to temper our expectations a little.

drnoe
03-19-2007, 08:38 AM
There are 7 guys on next year's roster that I could see getting their name called by David Stern one day, but none of them, I repeat, NONE of them are close to being ready yet, and it is unlikely that all 7 will get there in the end. The odds are against it.

You nailed it. None are close at all at this point. The good thing is that we can count on every player on the current roster playing until their eligibility has been exhausted. Few has an opportunity to maintain a consistent pipeline of top-notch talent without worrying too much about anybody leaving early for the draft.

BobZag
03-19-2007, 09:30 AM
That's why you'll never see me popping off about how great the team will be. Good enough to go 27-5, sure, maybe, depending on the schedule. Final Four material, well, if the matchups fall our way. I'll say "I'm excited about a backcourt of Pargo, Bouldin, Downs," or maybe compare Downs to Frahm, or Bouldin to Stepp. After watching DJ Augustine of Texas yesterday in person, I honestly feel Pargo is as good or better, but I'd preface that by admitting it was just one game.

Paper really is all we fans have until November starts.

brasszag
03-19-2007, 10:08 AM
Lots of potential.

Do they have the will to take advantage of it?