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View Full Version : Is anybody else concerned besides me?



EngineerZag
01-22-2009, 08:54 PM
We gave up 16 offensive rebounds, didn't go after loose balls, didn't take care of the ball and took 11 fewer shots than our opponent as a result.

We didn't play very good defense and gave up a lot of wide open shots against a mediocre offense at best.

We beat the #7 team in the WCC, with a 4-15 record and 300+ RPI, by 14 points.

We let them outscore us by 5 points in the second half!

Personally I get frustrated about how we often play down to the competition, or as I think was more the case tonight, don't play up to their enthusiasm and energy and hustle.

I hope we don't play like that on the road vs SMC, SCU, or USD! Or Portland for that matter ... :(

theothegreat21
01-22-2009, 09:02 PM
This entire road trip is going to be difficult to watch. It's going to be tough for Coach Few to get this team "up" to play two of the worst teams in the entire country. Lets just hope that we get through this weekend injury free, so we can focus on the rest of the season

zagfan08
01-22-2009, 09:05 PM
I would be concerned if it was neck and neck the whole way and we went on a late run to come out with the win. But the reality is the game was over in the first 4 minutes. They were not talented enough to come back from a 17 point deficit and we knew that. Obviously it's nice to take a 20 point lead and extend it to 50, but sometimes that doesn't happen, especially on the road.

The test will be next week. The St. Mary's game will be a battle, and we can't have a let down after because San Diego is capable of beating us too.

In short, I don't really see a reason to be too worried now.

MedZag
01-22-2009, 09:18 PM
http://takegame.com/shooter/pictures/doom1.jpg

Ole Roy
01-22-2009, 09:20 PM
You may cry all you want. But keep watching you'll be happy in the end.

Reborn
01-22-2009, 09:22 PM
It looked to me like we played a pretty good first half. That's all they needed to do. They do play again in two days, and I expect a blow out on Saturday. The Zags are fine. This is just the way it is. We don't need to blow every team out by 30 or 40. I'll always take a win on the road any way we can get them. I think you know how I feel about road games by now. Way to go Zags!

Das Zagger
01-22-2009, 09:22 PM
http://takegame.com/shooter/pictures/doom1.jpg

I see what you did there.


ps. I loved that game.

CDC84
01-22-2009, 09:37 PM
Gonzaga needs to come out on Saturday and crush LMU.

T-bonedazag
01-22-2009, 10:15 PM
They knew they were better and the first four min proved it...Its hard to get kids to stretch that lead to 30 or 40 when the game was already over

RRZagFan
01-22-2009, 10:20 PM
We were ahead by 20 towards the end,they hit a few threes,our main guys were out,so we only end up winning by 14.I think they had alot of sloppy passes,but I still have no worry

SpudDawg
01-22-2009, 11:31 PM
Watching the replay -- up by 22 with less than 5 minutes to go. Don't borrow trouble.

MDABE80
01-23-2009, 12:13 AM
GU opened up a 16 pt lead and finished with a 14 pt lead. If you go to ESPN and look at the pts game flow, you'll see GU went on Cruise contral after 5 mintues. Nothing bad, nothing good. No big spread. I saw Steven Gray as the lone rebounder multiple times. Lack of defense and poor rebounding will sink this team. I'm not sure how this Pepperdine team coujld even score 50 pts against the Zags if they were trying. Zags MUST be tough.....a lot tougher than tonight..in every game from here on in or it's one and done. BUT how did Pepperdine get all those offensive rebounds!!!??? I'll tell ya how: our guys had left for the other end. No effort and no sense of much. The game flow shows everything.

asoc
01-23-2009, 02:50 AM
I understand the comments about going on cruise control, about how its hard to keep playing as hard when you are already up 20 etc.

However, I have seem numerous posts on the boards wanting and looking for that killer instinct in this team. I didn't see it tonight.

4AmericasTeam
01-23-2009, 05:10 AM
Few's substitution patterns in the second half were different because this was an obvious win. No alarms are sounding.

bigblahla
01-23-2009, 05:40 AM
The Zag team on the floor last night would be hard pressed to play with the Gaels. Consistency and intensity are not that easily turned on we've already been witness to that. Saw bickering between team members if anyone else noticed please comment but there were a couple of times Pargo and Daye had words on the court and neither were smiling.

As far as Pargo goes it seems he has lost his heart to play, I don't know if it's injury or all the pressure of trying to NBA up his game but he doesn't look like he's having fun like he used to with that big smile on his face.

Matt is starting to impose his imprint on the team. Amazing we finally scored on a play at the end of a half.

Pepperdine has youthful talent but still we should have buried them. We didn't play hard for 40 minutes on either side of the ball. Some lessons are never learned. Hope this isn't the case.

Beat the Lions.

Go!! Zags!!!

Bing
01-23-2009, 05:49 AM
As far as Pargo goes it seems he has lost his heart to play, I don't know if it's injury or all the pressure of trying to NBA up his game but he doesn't look like he's having fun like he used to with that big smile on his face.



Thanks Dr. Phil. I feel much better now that you've reached your conclusion and shared it with the masses.

GUZagDenver
01-23-2009, 06:52 AM
As far as Pargo goes it seems he has lost his heart to play, I don't know if it's injury or all the pressure of trying to NBA up his game but he doesn't look like he's having fun like he used to with that big smile on his face.
Go!! Zags!!!

Probably because his NBA stock has gone down in flames this season. If there is anyone who watches this guy play and thinks that he can play in the NBA, you are clueless. I was tough on Boulding all the way up to this year, but he has really stepped up. We should start Bouldin and send pargo to the bench. He is really bringing nothing to our team right now.

gamagin
01-23-2009, 06:57 AM
We gave up 16 offensive rebounds, didn't go after loose balls, didn't take care of the ball and took 11 fewer shots than our opponent as a result.

We didn't play very good defense and gave up a lot of wide open shots against a mediocre offense at best.

We beat the #7 team in the WCC, with a 4-15 record and 300+ RPI, by 14 points.

We let them outscore us by 5 points in the second half!

Personally I get frustrated about how we often play down to the competition, or as I think was more the case tonight, don't play up to their enthusiasm and energy and hustle.

I hope we don't play like that on the road vs SMC, SCU, or USD! Or Portland for that matter ... :(


I agree. Someday, I hope we realize we must be, or remain or become an inside out game.

Establish our game underneath, then start shooting outside. Against good teams and weak teams, we just start gunning and if they drop, fine, if they don't, not fine.

SMC took over underneath against S.D. and then whipped them to a fare they well. They are going to try and do that to us.

cjm720
01-23-2009, 07:02 AM
We need to play with 100% intensity all the time. After we had a big lead, we passed up on open looks often. If I were Few I'd make the team execute with haste as if we were playing a Uconn or Duke....if you get an open look, shoot becuase more athletic and better coached teams won't let you get open as much. We need to treat every game as if we're playing the best. Don't play down to the competition!

All and all, a fairly well played game...nice to see Will and Ira! getting minutes. We need them as additional post presence if we want to make any kind of deep run.

GO ZAGS!!

NotoriousZ
01-23-2009, 08:18 AM
...after it was 17-0. The game was over. Did you want a 100-0 outcome like in high school girls basketball? I don't think we played poorly or lazily the rest of the game either. Give the Waves some credit. They're a really young team that from what I saw has a ton of potential to give us a serious game in a year or two. They played great after the first 5 minutes, but every time they came close to closing the gap, we answered back. Job well done Zags!

NotoriousZ
01-23-2009, 08:50 AM
Right on amigo. I'm doing my best to stay off the latest anti-Pargo thread, so I'm glad you brought this up here. We are blessed from high above to have Matt, but when Jeremey's on his game we are a deadly team. I'll chalk this ho-hum game from JP to the thumb injury (and who knows about his leg or what other injuries he may have). I can feel all you Pargo bashing idiots are about to say I'm making excuses for the man. So bring it on, chumps! Just remember which team you're supposed to be rooting for!

bigblahla
01-23-2009, 08:51 AM
Thanks Dr. Phil. I feel much better now that you've reached your conclusion and shared it with the masses.

You may have missed the point of my statement.

From all appearances it seems to me that Jeremy is not enjoying the game like he used to. I'm not saying he doesn't have heart I'm saying it seems his heart isn't in it.

Go!! Zags!!!

UberZagFan
01-23-2009, 08:54 AM
GU outplayed Pepp more in the first half than Pepp outplayed GU in the second. That resulted in a safe W. No need to sweat it but yeah, it'd be nice to see GU outplaying a team with a 300 RPI for both halves.

As for the Pargo bashing, Uber's right with ya Grey.

former1dog
01-23-2009, 08:56 AM
Although appreciative of the victory, I too want to see the killer instinct out of the Bulldogs ie. "Step on their throats mentality."

bigblahla
01-23-2009, 08:58 AM
GUZagDenver:


bigblahla:

You two d-bags are ######ed. I'm so sick of the Pargo bashing, and if the man would allow me to give you negative rep right now, I'd drop a million little red boxes on your sorry asses.

Unfortunately, the man is making me wait 24 hours before I do so, but I will when I can.

"As far as Pargo goes it seems he has lost his heart to play, I don't know if it's injury or all the pressure of trying to NBA up his game but he doesn't look like he's having fun like he used to with that big smile on his face."



How you translate what I wrote above is up to you but I'm not Pargo bashing however if that's what you think I have no influence over it. I don't think he's having fun like he used to. The team is changing and his role is changing how he adjusts to the changes will dictate what success we have from here on. I'm a Pargo fan but I don't have blinders on either. Now as far as name calling goes Momma said sticks and stones... awww you know the rest. Take a chill pill and remember you are only as important as you think you are in your own mind.

Go!! Zags!!!

zaguarxj
01-23-2009, 09:05 AM
No, I'm not concerned. I think y'all are forgetting how many close shaves and losses the Zags have had in WCC road games over the years. This one was never in doubt.

BobZag
01-23-2009, 09:52 AM
This entire road trip is going to be difficult to watch. It's going to be tough for Coach Few to get this team "up" to play two of the worst teams in the entire country. Lets just hope that we get through this weekend injury free, so we can focus on the rest of the season

Right on. Young Zag Jedi padawans everywhere will need patience Saturday. Now, if the team pulls this stunt anywhere but LA, it'll be dark times in Zagville.

johnwzag
01-23-2009, 09:52 AM
No, I am not concerned. I was not glued to the tube like I usually am during games, I was skipping back and forth to see what SMC looks like. We knew we were going to win.

It looked to me as though the idea was to work on the inside game in preperaton for SMC and Memphis. Matt Bouldin could of taken a lot more shots, but they were taking turns trying to get the ball to Heyfelt and Daye. Heytfelt was being tripple teamed as was Daye often. They both were surounded by players in the paint and still came through. In my book that is progress because we need the inside game.

You say SMC blew them away...Looking at the game stats of the SMC games and the GU games and considering that SMC was home with the crowd behind them and we were not, I think we still look better on defense as our stats show throughout the season against tougher teams then SMC is.

Bell defense...
FG FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA PTS OFF DEF TOT AST TO STL BLK PF
SMC 9 17 1 2 1 3 20 1 6 7 1 4 3 1 0
GU 8 19 2 4 1 8 19 2 10 12 6 4 2 0 4

Overall defense
FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
SMC 19-58 2-12 6-9 7 25 4 8 2 14 16 46
GU 26-71 8-25 9-14 16 39 11 8 3 9 18 69

What is the real factor here? I think it is the outside shooting. 6X3 more 3s is 18 points. 46+18 = 64 points. Which explains...
1. Rebounding - Aside from hustle, a 3 point missed shot is going to bounce into the luckiest guys hands.
2. Shooting a 3 on your home court has a better chance of going in I think.
3. Why was pep shooting 13 more threes?
1. The crazy bounce gave them more shots.
2. They were not able to penetrate on us as well on our D and had
to throw them up from what I saw.

So while it looks like SMC just blew them out of the water, which they did. We were not playing to trying to match the score. We were working on our inside game and they shot a lot more 3s at home where they were more comfortable. We still kept them to 36.6% FG 32.0% 3s. They had a horrible shooting % at SMC, no doubt a young team overcome by the crowd.

and these two...Omar Samhan, Diamon Simpson are who we have to contend with when we play SMC and it looked to me like Few was working on Austin and Josh to get in there and play tough in the paint and that is what they did.

Very positive game.

johnwzag
01-23-2009, 10:01 AM
Although appreciative of the victory, I too want to see the killer instinct out of the Bulldogs ie. "Step on their throats mentality."


Maybe practicing what needs to be worked on is better than beating a team by 50 points.

CDC84
01-23-2009, 10:08 AM
Maybe practicing what needs to be worked on is better than beating a team by 50 points.

This is a very valid point. As Tom Hudson kept saying on the radio, the outcome of last night's game was never in doubt. The only thing Coach Rice was perturbed by was the defensive effort at times in the 2nd half.

BobZag
01-23-2009, 10:22 AM
Although appreciative of the victory, I too want to see the killer instinct out of the Bulldogs ie. "Step on their throats mentality."

Would the "tickle their tummies until they cry uncle" mentality be okay? It might have to be. :D

titopoet
01-23-2009, 10:52 AM
The killer instinct can be overrated. Just blowing out to blow out doesn't really help your team get better. Just ask UNLV when the hammed it up on Duke in 1990, and then were not prepared the following year to take on a fired up Duke team. Better on working to get better feeding the post and work on the zone (which GU will need in March). Blowing out to blow out can do damage as seen by http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/22/SP5M15FGPJ.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/22/SP5M15FGPJ.DTL) Again the goal is to prepare for March.

SpudDawg
01-23-2009, 12:36 PM
Again, folks ... up by 22 with less than 5 minutes to play. At that point, what team doesn't go into cruise control? Unless you're intentionally trying to lay a beat-down on someone. Zags could have left in all starters and gone full-out to jack up the margin to 30+. To what purpose?

misszigzag
01-23-2009, 01:53 PM
Give it a rest, seriously. The game wasn't overly flashy but we got it done comfortably!

Robzagnut
01-23-2009, 02:07 PM
Again, folks ... up by 22 with less than 5 minutes to play. At that point, what team doesn't go into cruise control? Unless you're intentionally trying to lay a beat-down on someone. Zags could have left in all starters and gone full-out to jack up the margin to 30+. To what purpose?

Plus, Few put in Sorenson, Meech, Ira and Foster while Pepp still had a number of their starters out there. It was obvious that Few didn't want to blow out Pepp and just wanted some of the other guys to play. I didn't even watch much of the second half as I knew GU would go into cruise control.

GU got points whenever they wanted. Whenever Pepp made a run to close within 12-14, GU would step it up a notch and roll (see the end of the first half).

It was like watching Animal Planet where the Orca has caught a seal and is just playing with it and batting it around for sport. Not entertaining at all. The only thing they kept me watching was to see if Ira was going to get another Top 10 dunk.

Trying to read 'GU is bad, because' or 'GU is good, because' out of that game is just plain silly.

ZagnetitForce
01-23-2009, 02:35 PM
It was like watching Animal Planet where the Orca has caught a seal and is just playing with it and batting it around for sport. Not entertaining at all. The only thing they kept me watching was to see if Ira was going to get another Top 10 dunk. :D



Having a crapy day and this made me laugh out loud - thanks! And it is so true!

Zag79
01-23-2009, 03:50 PM
Amazing we finally scored on a play at the end of a half.

dont get too excited, it came from a 28 foot bomb by micah. if he misses that shot everyones whining about our ability to make a shot at the buzzer.
as far as pargo, to me it looks like he is hurting more than we know and that mixed with the team evolving is making it rougher for him. it seems as if everyone is adjusting to new roles coming into wcc play. #2 will be a guy that we depend on to run this team into march, regardless of how other guys are stepping up against the weak wcc. i would expect matt and austin to tear it up now more than the first half of the season. keep it up into march and add in a healthy pargo and this team is lethal!

ZagLawGrad
01-23-2009, 04:15 PM
Can't say I agree that JP is playing poorly like earlier in December, but can say this------Careful what ye sayeth on here lest ye receive a lobotomy from those who bow to the man. End up in the cooler like Steve McQueen in Great Escape. :D

EngineerZag
01-23-2009, 06:39 PM
It wasn't our points that concerned me, but the lack of defense (wide open shots) and giving up 16 offensive boards. Plus we let our pocket get picked quite a few times.

Nevtelen
01-24-2009, 11:02 AM
It looked to me as though the idea was to work on the inside game in preperaton for SMC and Memphis. Matt Bouldin could of taken a lot more shots, but they were taking turns trying to get the ball to Heyfelt and Daye. Heytfelt was being tripple teamed as was Daye often. They both were surounded by players in the paint and still came through. In my book that is progress because we need the inside game.


That's what I thought. The Zags haven't really been stellar at post-entry yet this season. This game was practice for working it in the paint, IMO. As many have noted, the outcome wasn't ever really in doubt. The rotations reflected that, too -as soon as that 17 pt lead appeared, in came the 2nd string and Pepp started to come back a bit.

My guess is we'll see something similar tonight vs LMU.