PDA

View Full Version : #3



cggonzaga
12-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Why not? Pitt beats the Cougs by 15 late in essentially a home game. We beat the Cougs by 22 in Pullman. I'm sure it won't happen but there is no doubt in my mind we are better than Pitt.

krozman
12-10-2008, 10:28 PM
If WSU had beat down baylor, perhaps. I think a lot of people aren't sure about WSU yet, and for that reason, nobody will know how good of a win this is until later in the season.

CDC84
12-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Gonzaga has also played 3 more high major teams than Pitt...including Tennessee.

Pitt may have won by 15, but they were fighting for their lives until the last 4 minutes of the game when Wazzu's offense went sour. The Zags had the Cougs down by 33 at one point in the 2nd half.

That being said, if GU beats Zona (not a given) I would be highly surprised if GU supplants Pitt in the polls. It's just the way things work.

cggonzaga
12-10-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm not sure how that relates to what I wrote Kroz? Head to head vs the same opponent is what I'm talking about. Our win was more impressive not to mention we've beaten better opposition than Pitt.

Beat me to it CDC. :)

JohnOGU
12-10-2008, 10:56 PM
In all honesty, id put us at #2. Yes, #2. UCONN never fires on all cylinders at once. They always have to one or two players winning games for them. That near loss to Buffalo only solidifies it. GU #2.

NotoriousZ
12-10-2008, 10:57 PM
Shoot, I'll have to one-up ya and say #2 (and I ain't scared of NC either). Uconn isn't living up to the hype and I guess we'll get to see what's what on the 20th, but I'm saying we're better than them also.

NotoriousZ
12-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Aw, ya beat me to the post, JohnO. Nice move. :D

JohnOGU
12-10-2008, 11:04 PM
Aw, ya beat me to the post, JohnO. Nice move. :D

And you too, Notorious. A good call on both of our parts.

cggonzaga
12-11-2008, 07:46 AM
I too agree with your posts but we're going to have to beat them before that happens.

thespywhozaggedme
12-11-2008, 07:51 AM
In my complete homerific eyes. having seen the team twice in person. We're #1 or 2.

johnwzag
12-11-2008, 07:54 AM
Shoot, I'll have to one-up ya and say #2 (and I ain't scared of NC either). Uconn isn't living up to the hype and I guess we'll get to see what's what on the 20th, but I'm saying we're better than them also.

Kool-aid time! #2 is looking better all the time.

rennis
12-11-2008, 08:01 AM
In my complete homerific eyes. having seen the team twice in person. We're #1 or 2.

After last night I got to agree. I think if we beat AZ and Uconn, we are legitimately the #2 team in the land. Scary to think that would put the team one UNC misstep in an ACC road game away from #1. Yikes.

damn I'm excited!!

Nevtelen
12-11-2008, 08:08 AM
I know we're all on cloud 9 and, yes, the team played very very well last night, but, hoenstly, I can't say I believe the hype until this team wins the battle of the boards by a decent margin against a good rebounding team. As it stands, the team is very very good, yes. But not FF good IMO.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-11-2008, 08:19 AM
I don't care if we're unranked, as long as we keep winning.

cggonzaga
12-11-2008, 08:54 AM
I know we're all on cloud 9 and, yes, the team played very very well last night, but, hoenstly, I can't say I believe the hype until this team wins the battle of the boards by a decent margin against a good rebounding team. As it stands, the team is very very good, yes. But not FF good IMO.

Not as concerned about rebounding like some others. We got outrebounded by 25 against Tenn and had an 18 point lead late in the game. I don't see us losing games because of getting outrebounded. I see us blowing teams out even worse when we start outrebounding teams.

What does this team have to do to impress you? How can you not see this team is FF and national championship good? I'm an optimist but anyone can see that this team is as good as anyone.

CDC84
12-11-2008, 09:06 AM
I would be more concerned about the rebounding if Gonzaga weren't holding teams to below 34% shooting. I think the Zags are concentrating so much effort on guarding the shot that the rebounding is suffering a bit. This isn't to say that it couldn't get better. But as long as teams keep missing shots against that defense, I can live with substandard rebounding margins.

cggonzaga
12-11-2008, 09:31 AM
Great point.

Zag-in-SD
12-11-2008, 09:33 AM
Pitt doesn't play decent teams either. A win over UMBC or Sienna doesn't prove much. A win over UA would prove much more. We should jump 'em.

hockeyzag
12-11-2008, 10:24 AM
I would be more concerned about the rebounding if Gonzaga weren't holding teams to below 34% shooting. I think the Zags are concentrating so much effort on guarding the shot that the rebounding is suffering a bit. This isn't to say that it couldn't get better. But as long as teams keep missing shots against that defense, I can live with substandard rebounding margins.

I second that great point. I have been a bit worried at Heytvelt's rebounding numbers as of late, but obviously I need to get my head on straight and stop worrying about these things. Our team is winning, playing unbelievable defense, and our boy Heytvelt is a huge part of why these things are happening. What a game he had last night.
Thanks for the perspective CDC.

FrahmfortheWin
12-11-2008, 11:00 AM
The rebounding will become an issue once the team gets into a close game. I think this team has all the potential but the key is realizing it. Until we are a little more consistant on the boards and with free throws I'll remain cautiously optomistic.

To stay on topic with the original thread, I see us remaining at #4 for now. Gonzaga is still viewed by the majority of the east coast/midwest as a cinderalla type. Until we make another deep tourney run (or take the whole thing!) it will be tough to get the benefit of the doubt from the polls.

GonzagaDynasty
12-11-2008, 11:12 AM
You guys are brainwashed by the BCS system. You cant loose positions in college basketball by winning. Very rare. its a system that is actually FAIR.

gamagin
12-11-2008, 11:26 AM
I would be more concerned about the rebounding if Gonzaga weren't holding teams to below 34% shooting. I think the Zags are concentrating so much effort on guarding the shot that the rebounding is suffering a bit. This isn't to say that it couldn't get better. But as long as teams keep missing shots against that defense, I can live with substandard rebounding margins.


our game plan should not, imo, count on the other guy missing.

it should count on us rounding out our game, our weaknesses and Nevtelen nailed it.

On another point, I know there are divisions between those who love to see JH on the perimiter sinking threes. They make me cringe. We have perhaps the best lineup of shooters ever and our big guy at the top of the key ? If we could put Matt underneath, and not suffer any height loss, that might be different. But what we get is a void.

WTF is THAT about ? Sort of like letting the center play quarterback at the end of a game. So what if he can pass ? He's a Center. I sure as hell don't want to see him playing QB in the first quarter.

The first team to beat us, I predict, will be the one that sets up underneath, dominates the space and puts the pressure on us to beat them from downtown.

With that said, we might just get away with it because we are capable of beating anyone this year, given our talent pool. It all depends on whether we get flustered, like WSU did with its gameplan last night.

But the better teams won't get flustered, imo. they will exploit that glaring weakness and try to get us out of our game. JH could average 20 plus each night and 14 of those points could be layups and the other 6-10 free throws.


At least layups are higher percentage shots, and more predictable. Not to mention a much smarter and less stressful way to beat our opponents.

tobizag
12-11-2008, 11:39 AM
fwiw, my co-worker is a pitt fan (his father works at the university) and he is as crazy about pitt as i am about gonzaga. we spoke this morning about the wsu game, and he said that at this point in the season, he doesn't see why we shouldn't be ranked above pitt.

that being said, the difference between being ranked 4 or 3 imo is negligible. we just keep taking care of business, we'll get a fantastic seed come tourney time.

cggonzaga
12-11-2008, 11:43 AM
our game plan should not, imo, count on the other guy missing.

it should count on us rounding out our game, our weaknesses and Nevtelen nailed it.

That's not at all what CDC or myself was saying. We aren't "counting" on the other team missing. We are playing great defense thus the 34% fga. We are also making opponents turn the ball over more than previous years, +6 a game. Also, we still have a +4 rebounding margin per game and that includes a -25 game against Tenn (a game we handily won). You can have all the conerns you want and if we lose a game because of rebounding I'll jump on your bandwagon. Until that happens (and I don't believe it will) these concerns are nothing more than trying to find something wrong with the team.


On another point, I know there are divisions between those who love to see JH on the perimiter sinking threes. They make me cringe. We have perhaps the best lineup of shooters ever and our big guy at the top of the key ? If we could put Matt underneath, and not suffer any height loss, that might be different. But what we get is a void.


That was the first game we consistently saw Josh out there and I believe it was on purpose as the coaching staff picked up that the Cougs bigs don't guard the perimeter very well. We just happened to have a big that can step out and knock those shots down. I would also liked to see this used against UConn if Thabeet is guarding Josh. Not only is a hard guard for Thabeet but it will also take him out of the key.

NotoriousZ
12-11-2008, 12:33 PM
%100 correct cggonzaga. No one is suggesting that Josh should hang out on the 3 point line all game, you have to change things up to give the opponent something else to defend. When Josh is square to the basket and is open, I would want him to shoot that almost every time. In case you haven't noticed, he's nailing the 3's....big time. As for rebounding, I am also in total agreement with cg. We're getting our share. If you want a perfect game, that's nice but it ain't ever going to happen; not by GU or anybody else. I guess if you feel the need to complain you could always harp on free throws, but I think we were 6-7 last night. I suppose you could rip on Gray for missing one.

I'm sorry, I don't care for the negativity--we got something good here.

gamagin
12-11-2008, 01:01 PM
I don't agree with you if, indeed, you all think as one.

I undersand the percentage angle, cg, it's just not a good strategy. Is jerry krause running the percentages during the game to adjust, for e.g.?

the whole issue might be moot given the tremendous athleticity we have. But at the first sign of pressure like we have visited upon our foes so far, we need our ducks lined up, willing and able, imo. I don't see it. and winning against weaker teams who are still busy finding their own games does not make me comfortable that our weakness never got challenged. It will, in time.

Imo, a good team will blow us out while we try and adjust on the fly, just like we blew wsu out while they tried to adjust to us and got pulled out of their game Tuesday. And since JH hasn't really spent much time in two years under the basket (versus on the periphery), well, it's not like its home base for him. that's what I see, at any rate.

You set a game plan, which generally centers around your strengths, and stick to it -- especially at crunch time. when you rewind, you should see the same types of players nearer their work stations.

If the gameplan is JH atop too often (imo), or it's okay for him to drift up top, or set up atop the key, we're going to get stung. It's a weak spot, imo. the first good team we play will attempt to exploit it. we should be ready.

we'll see as the season plays out where our tallest player, our slam dunker, our one-time really good free throw shooter and our mature senior, who used to make his living w/putbacks and ft's two years ago, belongs.

It's not a religion we're discussing. It's a point that will be around all season because JH is a pretty good shooter. So are Gray, Pargo, Daye, Downs & Bouldin, but they don't have JH's tie breaker -- height (as in heydtfeldt). the question to me is where to we want JH and the rest of them shooting from ?

And who gets the putback or draws the foul or generally makes a one and done into a 2-3 shot rebounding battle and two points, which we used to do. Whoever gets his share underneath, as the season wears on, imo, will win at the end of the season when it really counts.

007Zag
12-11-2008, 01:48 PM
... that josh shooting threes makes me uncomfortable. a great shooter he may be, but should our center really be shooting 6 threes in a game? 6! that puts us in a bad position on the boards. did anyone else see daye and heytfelt run a little handoff and screen up outside the three point line? it's amazing that they're capable of that stuff, but especially in these games we need to take advantage of the opportunities to pound it in low as often as possible. the more often josh shoots threes, especially against inferior opponents, the more likely he will settle for outside shots against teams that will really give us a run for our money. and we can't afford to get pushed out of the interior.

OTOH, 3 of 6 from three-point land for a center?!? hot damn!