View Full Version : ZAGS vs BCS

03-14-2007, 01:34 PM
Sorry for the long post on my first attempt, I've been visiting this site and previous sites for a long time.

With all the continuing chatter about Gonzaga being in a "weak" conference and only being in the dance because of that, I decided to see how the ZAGS have done against the "BIG BAD BCS" (besides, it was a little slow at work yesterday). I started my research at the 98/99 season and continued it through today, including all NCAA tournament games during that nine year span. My reasoning for that span was it comprises our current 9-yr. run of tournament appearances and the fact that the GU web site only goes back that far with game results.

Anyway, here are the numbers. Since 98/99 we are 49-36 (.577) against the BCS. That is impressive to me, especially when you consider that we only played 19 of those 85 games (less than 25%) at the Kennel or Spokane Arena, where we are 17-2 (.895, only two losses are at the Arena and both were in OT). Away from home we are 14-17 (.452, very respectable) and at neutral sites we are 18-17 (.514, impressive). Just to pile it on I checked our record against the "vaunted" PAC-10 in that same span and we are 19-8 (.704, undefeated in Spokane). It now is very clear to me why the Huskies are ducking us and why almost no one will come to the Kennel (thanks Stanford and WSU).

Maybe not Duke or NC numbers, but we have nothing to apologize for or feel bad about, especially when responding to PAC-10 posters. Looking forward to our 50th BCS victory tomorrow, GO ZAGS!!

03-14-2007, 01:37 PM
Thanks Tacoma and Welcome

03-14-2007, 01:37 PM
I really appreciate you digging up these numbers... if ever again someone talks to us about pac10 or big10 talent as a basis for their argument, I will link them to this thread.

03-14-2007, 01:50 PM
Good research TacomaZag.

Moreover, if Gonzaga played in the ACC or something, they wouldn't have to play the rigorous non-league schedule that they do. They would be allowed the luxury of losing more games within their league without it wrecking their RPI.

Gonzaga is in a position where they are now out-recruiting the majority of BCS conference teams. If you add that to their performance against BCS teams in the past with players that weren't as talented entering the program as the guys now (but, who in time, turned out to be really good players), the notion that Gonzaga would fall flat on its face in a power conference is just absurd.

Gonzaga would lose more games within league if they played in a BCS league, but this notion that GU would fall to bottom feeder status is absurd.

You might also argue that they would be more prepared for the NCAA tourney by playing in a BCS league...despite the additional losses. Be that as it may, GU has won more tournament games the past 8 years than the vast majority of BCS teams, and they are one of the few teams to make the sweet 16 or better 4 times in the past 8 years.

True, they aren't at the Duke and North Carolina level when it comes to this kind of thing, but in case anyone hasn't noticed, BCS conferences are not comprised of Duke/UNC type teams from top to bottom.

03-14-2007, 02:16 PM
I hate to be the one to stand in for the Pac 10 but Zags have mostly been scheduling UW and WSU who, til very recently, have not been good at all. We've done in Stanford a couple times too but they're not exactly at the top of the heap either. The Zags schedule compares ok with the power conferences but for us the easiest part of the schedule sends us to the NCAA tourney. The difficult non conference part is only to gain better seeding we can lose every tough matchup and still make the tourney. In the big conferences the opposite is true. They need some easier non conference foes to fatten theit W-L record but if they can't win over half of their tough conference games they aren't going anywhere.

03-14-2007, 02:29 PM
Good point VZ, but we can only beat the PAC-10 teams that are willing to play us. For the record, during that span we are 1-1 against UCLA (away and neutral) and 0-2 against Arizona (away and neutral), who I assume you are referring to as the "cream" of the PAC-10. The loss to UCLA last year still sticks in my craw, and the double overtime loss to AZ in the 2003 NCAA tournament is one of the best games I ever saw.

1-4 isn't that great but I have no doubt it would improve if any of the "elite" PAC-10 teams would come to the Kennel. Until then, we will have to continue to beat the "bottom feeders" you refer to.

03-14-2007, 02:40 PM
I wish to emphasize that even if GU has beaten up on some Pac 10 bottom feeders in the past, that there are people in this world that do actually argue that GU would be no better than those bottom feeders if they played in the Pac 10. I have seen the posts with my very own eyes.

Let me put it this way...if GU were to play in the Pac 10, they would still be going to the NCAA tournament almost every year, and they would be going in with a nice seed. They probably wouldn't win the league most years, but you don't need to do this to get a bid and a comfortable seed.

There will still be those that disagree.....

03-14-2007, 03:48 PM
Agreed, CDC. My main point is simply that until some "elite" BCS programs are willing to schedule a true home/home with the Zags, all this talk is very one-sided. Other than Virginia, Stanford, WSU, and UW, no BCS schools have been willing to do that since the 98/99 season.

By the way, my earlier post should have said 1-3 record, not 1-4. My bad.

03-14-2007, 04:31 PM
Interesting to look at the past 6 season's OOC, with (*) denoting games at home, in the Kennel.

'01/'02 OOC record 13-2 --- Illinois (L); Montana* (W); St. John's (W); Texas (W); Marquette (L); Arkansas - Pine Bluff* (W); Portland State* (W); Eastern Washington (W); Fresno State (W); Washington (W): Washington State* (W); Eastern Oregon* (W); Monmouth (W); St. Joseph's (W); New Mexico (W):

'02/'03 OOC record 10-5 --- Hofstra* (W); Utah (W); Indiana (L); Kentucky (L); Montana (W); Washington* (W); Washington State (W); Georgia (L); North Carolina State (W); Long Beach State* (W); Eastern Washington (W); Stanford (L); St. Joseph's* (L); Tulsa* (W)

'03/'04 OOC record 11-2 --- St, Joseph's (L); Denver* (W); Idaho* (W); Georgia (W); Washington (W); Maryland (W); George Washington (W); Missouri (W); Stanford (L); Washington State* (W); Eastern Washington (W); Montana* (W); Tulsa (W)

‘04/’05 OOC record 11-2 – Idaho* (W); Portland State* (W); Montana* (W); Illinois (L); Washington* (W); UMass (W); Washington State (W); Georgia Tech (W); Oklahoma State (W); Missouri (L); St. Louis* (W); N. Colorado* (W); Eastern Washington (W)

‘05/’06 OOC record 11-3 – Idaho* (W); Maryland (W); Michigan State (W); Connecticut (L); Portland State* (W); Washington (L); Washington State* (W); Oklahoma State (W); Virginia* (W); Eastern Washington (W); St. Louis (W); Memphis (L); St. Joseph’s* (W); Stanford* (W)

‘06/’07 OOC record 9-7 – Eastern Washington* (W); Rice (W); Baylor (W); Texas S.A.# (W); North Carolina (W); Butler (L); Idaho* (W); Portland State* (W); Washington State (L); Washington* (W); Georgia (L); Duke (L); Nevada (L); Virginia (L); Stanford (W); Memphis (L)
Zag's OOC record of 65 - 21 the past 6 seasons includes a total of 32 games at home and 53 games away from the Kennel (where Gonzaga is 203-11 over the past 14 seasons).

I wonder how many programs (regardless of their size/conference affiliation) in the nation could play that schedule, with 32 of 86 games at home, and go +44 games over .500? GoZags

P.S. BTW, these don't include the 20 NCAA tourney games since '99, where one could add wins over Florida, Minnesota, Indiana, Stanford, Louisville, St. John's, Virginia, Cincinnati. Xavier and others.

03-14-2007, 05:29 PM
Thanks, GoZags for the additional info. I hope all the facts in this thread don't stand in the way of continued discussion on how the Zags could never make it in a "real" conference.............