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View Full Version : Rewatching this thing is brutal....



FuManShoes
11-30-2008, 09:10 PM
Not because of anything the players are doing, mind you. Hey, hacking's their prerogative. But the officiating in this thing SUCKED ASS. I challenge an objective observer to explain these calls or lack thereof. At least the players are in better form at this early juncture ...

FuManShoes
11-30-2008, 10:18 PM
Ah, but the ending was something to behold. As Micah knocks down one last FT, Few can be seen going down the bench congratulating everyone. You know they circled this tourney as a must-win, and they got 'er done. Can't ask for much more than that (at this point in the season).

roxdoc
12-01-2008, 10:02 AM
Not to belabor the point - but just out of curiosity, where were the officials from?

Thomas_Sutpen
12-01-2008, 10:11 AM
May I respectfully disagree?

Was the officiating perfect? No, but it rarely is.

GU MADE more foul shots than TN ATTEMPTED, in a game where we didn't feed the ball into the post all that often. (20 of our 52 FG attempts were 3-point shots--that ain't the way to get to the line). TN was called for 22 fouls and we had 18. I realize that the TN total was inflated at the end when they were trying to catch up and fouling intentionally, but the box still doesn't look like an officiating travesty.

Yes, we got killed on the boards, but much of that can be attributed to playing zone D most of the game. It's hard to box out when you don't have a "man," especially when the other team is exceptionally athletic and makes a concerted effort to hit the boards like TN.

Bottom line, we should be EXCITED that we had the opportunity to play a game like this. I hope the game in Knoxville is even more physical, and I hope we react in the same way--with toughness.

We've often had trouble in the past dealing with Big 10-style (now SEC?) shoving-match games. We have no idea how games will be called in March, and the more we can build experience with rough teams and "let them play" officials, the better off we are.

In addition, I feel that whining about officiating is the hallmark of losers. [Disclaimer: not trying to offend here, but this is my opinion.] Championship teams don't whine.

Play the hand your are dealt. If the officiating sucks, deal with it. If the other team hacks, play through it. You'll be better for it.

Peace.

zagzilla
12-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Winning vs. Tennessee will be a great training aid for shoving match games. Having said that I think Tenn intentionally runs a defense that is predicated on slapping, hacking, holding and grabbing. They just don't think the refs can call all of them. Pearl prowls the sideline throwing tantrums and intimidating the officials if they do call too many fouls. Its a strategy and it usually works for them. Our guys were totally surprised by this a year ago and yesterday they dealt with it.

Another game vs. this style of defense only helps us although it is very frustrating to watch.

CDC84
12-01-2008, 10:37 AM
The poor guy who seemed to get the worst of the calls was Micah. He gets whacked in the nose in the 1st half, and then he's blatantly fouled on a break away layup in the 2nd half.

The bottom line is that the Zags didn't allow the officiating and physical play to get to their heads. I wouldn't classify Tennessee as "thugs" - they're just a physical team. It's not going to get any easier for GU when they go to Knoxville on Jan. 7. They'll be playing in front of 24,000 orange clad Vol fans whose cheering will probably inspire even more physical play.

FuManShoes
12-01-2008, 10:37 AM
@Thomas

I think it's important to separate fouling from officiating. Fouls, hacking, and all other manner of physical play are part of the game. I get that, I think most fans get that. But officiating should at least be consistent and based on what's happening on the floor and not on some preconceived notion of what kind of game ought to be played based on the setting or teams involved. I don't even claim there was some sort of favoritsism going on last night. Rather, the officials just flat out made a bunch of nonsensical calls -- see: "blarge" or Ira's clean play on a rebound -- or made no call where one was clearly justified (player's lip is cut open by opposing player right in front of zebra; A Vols over-and-back, Sacre's elbows on a rebound (or was that vs. Maryland?), etc). I think Len, Fran, Andy and other commentators would agree the officiating left a lot to be desired. The physiciality was good in that the Zags faced an obstacle and overcame it. The officiating was bad in that it didn't do justice to the level of hoops being played.

MDABE80
12-01-2008, 11:10 AM
All you who doubt it was a overly physical game need to rewatch the game. I'm not sure when "physical" becomes "thug" play but I think I saw it last night. GU won and didn't sustain inuries but that game was way too physical.........and anyone who knows me knows I'm anything BUT sissy material. The funniest part is that Tenn thought THEY got the short end of the stick when it came to the refs....

It'll be tougher in Knoxville. I'm not sure how it could be, but it will. Last time I've seen such nasty team play was last year with Tenn. Mr Spray Tan needs to end this and council his troops I think. Afterall, it's not football.......or is it?

UberZagFan
12-01-2008, 12:20 PM
If it wasn't obvious before last night, it is now: UT's game plan is to hack, harass, hand-check, reach, grab, etc. knowing that the refs can't call them all. They set a tone early that the game will be that style and the refs acquiesced. It was not until the second half that they tried to get a handle on it and by then it was too late.

It would be nice if someday a ref crew would just call fouls fouls against teams like that early on and send the message that fouls will be called. Last night, GU should have been in bonus by the second TV timeout.

JLGutrocks
12-01-2008, 12:28 PM
@Thomas

I think it's important to separate fouling from officiating. Fouls, hacking, and all other manner of physical play are part of the game. I get that, I think most fans get that. But officiating should at least be consistent and based on what's happening on the floor and not on some preconceived notion of what kind of game ought to be played based on the setting or teams involved. I don't even claim there was some sort of favoritsism going on last night. Rather, the officials just flat out made a bunch of nonsensical calls -- see: "blarge" or Ira's clean play on a rebound -- or made no call where one was clearly justified (player's lip is cut open by opposing player right in front of zebra; A Vols over-and-back, Sacre's elbows on a rebound (or was that vs. Maryland?), etc). I think Len, Fran, Andy and other commentators would agree the officiating left a lot to be desired. The physiciality was good in that the Zags faced an obstacle and overcame it. The officiating was bad in that it didn't do justice to the level of hoops being played.

2nd'd and WTF is a blarge? it's heads or it's tails.

zaguarxj
12-01-2008, 12:30 PM
I checked out the TN board and they were doing lots of crying about the refs. That kind of surprised me.

mnzag24
12-01-2008, 01:48 PM
that call on Ira was laughable.

also, i thought they missed an over and back call on them early in the 2nd half (i think). the guy stepped on the line and then blatantly went into the backcourt. Reffing seemed pretty inconsistent over all,

I do like seeing Heytvelt pulling guys in and not letting them bit*h to the refs too much, good to see he is leading. Austin needs to keep his mouth shut and play, love the kid's game but that will eventually get him into trouble.

hondo46
12-01-2008, 02:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"that call on Ira was laughable."
So true. These clowns make so much far a job soooooo poorly done they could be running an automotive company.

TuckC
12-01-2008, 02:18 PM
There were a lot of ticky tacks, but what I found funniest of all the calls/no calls was the play were Micah gets slapped in the face and starts bleeding. I loved it mainly because the ref stops play and calls an injury time out but where did he think he got the injury? Lip stigmata?

john montana
12-01-2008, 02:19 PM
I agree with Uber and a few others here. It isn't that the game was called unfairly one way or another, it is that ANY college game would be called in a manner that lets 5 defensive players simultaneously grab or slap the 5 corresponding offensive player AT ONCE! I'm all for a physical game, but when you can't dribble the ball without being at risk of having your arm chopped off, when you can't even face up on a defender without getting slapped in the face there is a problem. Blow the whistle...stop the chippy slapping and hacking which in my opinion is anything but toughness. It doesn't take a lot of toughness to slap a guy in the face.

The lesson here is our guys can respond. And they did respond in kind. There were clear instances on both sides of the court of guys slapping, grabbing, shoving all game long...but I don't believe for a second our players came out wanting to play that kind of game. They adjusted to horrible officiating, and flat out fought back.

Personally, I don't think it is a compliment when even the talking heads say your team turns a basketball game into a street fight. Kudos to the zags for responding in kind and getting the W.

vaboris
12-01-2008, 03:12 PM
Trust me - if the Zags lost that game there would be a lot of crying on this board... The refs sucked for both teams... I didn't see it one-sided at all.

Zag365
12-01-2008, 05:05 PM
JM nailed it. The officiating allowed a level of bullying and contact that is not good basketball and not within the rules. Just because TN has built a team around this style and has a coach who constantly badgers the refs to let his team play down to that level doesn't entitle TN to get away with it. Fortunately, our players adjusted to this handicap and played through it. I'm concerned, however, that if this style of play (throwback to the Pistons' "Bad Boys"?) becomes accepted at the college level, it is going to diminish the college game.

Since we have to play TN next at their house where this kind of officiating will play to the crowd, it may be the biggest factor in the outcome (and could result in someone getting injured). I think it is worth calling out the refs for the way they handled Sunday's game.

Zag4Hire
12-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Not because of anything the players are doing, mind you. Hey, hacking's their prerogative. But the officiating in this thing SUCKED ASS. I challenge an objective observer to explain these calls or lack thereof. At least the players are in better form at this early juncture ...

If you are watching it again, listen for the cries for a traveling call or the immediate UT fans right behind Pearl and the Vols to roll their arms indicating traveling. It happens quite frequently throughout the first half.

gamagin
12-01-2008, 05:20 PM
at the next game with the Vols in Tn.

My guess: there won't be enough players on the Tn team to finish the game. By the end of (what would be) the first quarter.

Zag4Hire
12-01-2008, 05:24 PM
The poor guy who seemed to get the worst of the calls was Micah. He gets whacked in the nose in the 1st half, and then he's blatantly fouled on a break away layup in the 2nd half.

I completely agree. I also though Fraschilla was riding him a lot throughout the game. What was funny was that Downs got hit in the face by Prince and no call then Prince hit Bouldin (?) in the face in the 2nd half and got called for the foul. Fraschilla made a point of it to say Downs should play through it but didn't comment when Prince was called later for the foul. Also was it me or did Len Elmore seem like he didn't want to be there?

MickMick
12-01-2008, 06:27 PM
The complaints from Vol nation are of the "ticky tac" fouls called on them. Apparently they are accustomed to watching their players whack away.

It may have been a good experience for the Zags to play through this, but it is really unfortunate that the officials let the game get out of hand like that and were forced to reclaim control in the second half.

Perhaps complaining about the referees is "for losers", but the fact of the matter is that the Zags won. So it isn't a case of sour grapes.

For those that say that the Zags will not repeat their successful perimeter shooting in the next round against the Vols, I say that perhaps that shooting percentage will not be required again if the game is called right.

HRZag
12-01-2008, 07:02 PM
Anybody else get annoyed listening to the talking heads keep saying how deep Tennesee was and never mentioned that we played nine players and they all contributed.

It was Tennesee that got tired not us.

GeorgiaZagFan
12-01-2008, 07:55 PM
I'll preface my comments with a little history!

I am from the Pac NW ... went to EWU (back when it was EWSU) but I've been in Georgia for almost 30 years and I pull for the Bulldogs (Georgia and Gonzaga) The Vols are an SEC rival and we don't particulary like them. But their basketball team has been non-existent until Pearl came along. They may be the only major college that had their women's team outdraw their men's team for a few years.

Tennessee plays a non-basketball style of basketball and Pearl whines on every call ...I believe he does intimidate many officials and I do not like that style of basketball. His players are not gifted basketball players...they are thug machines!!! But he is successful!

But on the flip side I've been able to watch many WCC games over the past 5 years and it seems like those officials go too far the other way...they call it like it's a church league...every little touch foul...and I believe at times this has hurt Gonzaga when it comes to March madness. The Zags have played really good non-conference schedules in November and December and they are tough and ready ...but then after 16 games of the WCC and it appears they "soften" up and lay an egg in the big dance!

Here's hoping they maintain the toughness they showed against UT all the way through the first week of April!!!

Birddog
12-02-2008, 04:42 AM
Anybody else get annoyed listening to the talking heads keep saying how deep Tennesee was and never mentioned that we played nine players and they all contributed.
At one point in the broadcast, I think when we were up by 18 or so, Fraschilla (I think), said "it looks like Gonzaga's 8 are deeper than the Vols 10".

Sometimes it's easy to miss stuff like that, esp when they have 3 guys sharing the load,4 if you count Katz. There were too many talking heads on the game. Two plus one is plenty. Dump Elmore, Katz does a nice job from the sideline, but then he lives College Hoops every minute of the day.

FuManShoes
12-02-2008, 06:47 AM
Fran was also somewhat incredulous when he said, "How many weapons do they (gonzaga) have?" I think this was after Daye, who had done very little all game, drained a three and GU was piling it on.