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caduceus
03-12-2007, 08:08 PM
Interesting, well researched article just posted in the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/sports/ncaabasketball/13gonzaga.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

=caduceus=

treehorn
03-12-2007, 08:19 PM
Thanks. Great article by the world's best newspaper.


Then the phone rang at 6 a.m. Feb. 10. By 6:30 a.m., the local news was broadcasting from the Spokane County Jail. By 10 a.m., the former Gonzaga player J. P. Batista was calling from Lithuania. Few finally recognized how far his program reached.

RebornZag
03-12-2007, 08:33 PM
The best article on Josh and the Zags that I've read. But of course it's the New York Times. I think it is such a privledge to have had that written because it's truly a very classy article. The thing I liked the most in it was the script about Lute Olson and Roy Williams calling Mark Few to support him and share their knowledge of situations like the one Mark Few faced for the first time. I think sometimes we fans forget about the true brotherhood which exists in athletics....Between coaches, players and (well maybe not so sure about the fans) :lmao: .....

It's interesting to see Few's desire for reconciliation between Josh and the players....I believe that he thinks it will be best for the SPIRIT of the team and I agree.....

I also like the line in the article which said that all teams at some point experience this kind of problem but that the classy teams overcome the problem (or something like that...I think that's a pretty lousy paraphrase).

brasszag
03-12-2007, 09:04 PM
It will be interesting to see what changes are wrought on Josh through this.

It may humble him to just be a "cog" in the wheel for the year, and wait for his Senior year to take charge... or he may go all Ammo-rage on the B-Ball world.

Hopefully for his growth as a person it doesn't "break" him, or make him turn resentful.

devod
03-12-2007, 09:33 PM
It will be interesting to see what changes are wrought on Josh through this.

It may humble him to just be a "cog" in the wheel for the year, and wait for his Senior year to take charge... or he may go all Ammo-rage on the B-Ball world.

Hopefully for his growth as a person it doesn't "break" him, or make him turn resentful.

If you are referring to next season, Josh will be a RS Junior. He will have two more seasons of eligibility.

UberZagFan
03-12-2007, 09:57 PM
This is why college basketball fans fell for the Bulldogs in the first place — their toughness, their resilience, their willingness to spill their guts.

This is what I look forward to seeing on Thursday.

Nevtelen
03-12-2007, 09:58 PM
Great article - brutally honest and just informative by turns.


The Gonzaga Bulldogs practice in a new campus arena filled with luxury suites, video screens and advertisements for Toyota and Pepsi.

Forward Josh Heytvelt works out next door in an old gym.

For me, that sort of sums up the situation with an image - the team together, Josh on the outside looking in, working hard, hoping to come back. Ah, once an English major, always an English major I guess...

94zagoldwomanasherdsmen
03-12-2007, 11:20 PM
"Interesting, well researched article just posted in the New York Times."

"He retreats to the Spokane River or Coeur d’Alene River, where he is as famous for catching steelheads as he is for drawing up plays."

Not to be nit picky, but as a bit of a flyfishing geek....I don't think so, I grew up on the Coeur d'Alene fly-fishing with my dad....nope, no steelhead - don't think the Spoketoxin's got em either...but otherwise, good article - don't really expect much fishing savvy coming from New York City, no offense to the folks over there.

jazzdelmar
03-13-2007, 05:28 AM
Assuming they are accurate, DR's comments abt JH seem harsh, esp after all this time has past. Compare them w David's, which are more conciliatory and resonate leadership.

BSUZagVike
03-13-2007, 05:33 AM
"Arizona Coach Lute Olson and North Carolina Coach Roy Williams called with words of encouragement and tips about crisis management. College basketball, after all, has plenty of experience with drug arrests."


That just shows what class these guys have. That was a very fine gesture on their part. This was a very well written article

FuManShoes
03-13-2007, 05:52 AM
Assuming they are accurate, DR's comments abt JH seem harsh, esp after all this time has past. Compare them w David's, which are more conciliatory and resonate leadership.

DR's comments struck me the same way at first, but when you consider he's a senior who's seen his final campaign thrown for a loop and the win streak ended on his watch, perhaps he has the right to be resentful. Luckily the team isn't using Josh's suspension as an excuse and has coalesced around the idea that they can go just as far on their own. Bottom line: Pendo will likey play with Josh again; DR won't.

brasszag
03-13-2007, 05:53 AM
If you are referring to next season, Josh will be a RS Junior. He will have two more seasons of eligibility.

Yeah - I was trying to say he may "lay low" as a personality for a year before re-asserting himself as a senior on the team.

DenDiegoZag
03-13-2007, 07:09 AM
I think that the whole article is a testament to the class and dignity of the program that starts with the dedication and respect emulated by the players and coaches...

On another note, what a very nice little quote for the coaches to present to some PSA "This season, the Bulldogs were on ESPN more than any team except Duke." GO ZAGS!!!

GonzagasaurusFlex
03-13-2007, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the link caduceus....I too like this article a lot. My favorite quote:
Gonzaga has kept its personality while improving its talent.

As for DR's comments, I think it's completely understandable that he seems eager to have Josh back over at the old gym so the team can just get on with practice. This is his last dance. At the same time, I was happy to hear Pendo's perspective being more open-minded re: Josh's future role on the team because, as someone else already pointed out, Pendo will have to play w JH again. Pendo and Pargo will be the key leaders next year and those two will have to set the tone as to how JH is integrated back into the team....DR need not worry about that, just focus on his last dance!

Speaking of which, as much as I enjoyed this article and am happy to hear how JH and TD are moving forward I'm ready to lock-in on Indiana and March Madness '07 and enjoy seeing how DRav and Mallon finish up their fine careers...these two are today's news, not JH and Theo.

IrishBulldog
03-13-2007, 08:05 AM
Assuming they are accurate, DR's comments abt JH seem harsh, esp after all this time has past. Compare them w David's, which are more conciliatory and resonate leadership.

I agree with FuManShoes. Raivio's comments are completely understandable given that Josh's behavior had the potential to ruin DRav's senior season. These guys make incredible sacrifices--from all of the off-season conditioning and work, to the grind during the season--and must trust and depend upon one another to succeed. Josh's actions exhibited a betrayal of that trust--trust which he'll have to earn back to join the team next year.

former1dog
03-13-2007, 08:15 AM
Regarding Raivio's comments:

From my student/athlete days I recall an incident where a teammate let me down during my senior year. A freshman standout on our team decided to give blood to the red cross just a few days prior to the conference championship. A very dumb move, to say the least. It was no where near as dissapointing an incident as the Heytvelt situation, but at the same time I recall being very, very angry. If a reporter had asked me, I suspect I would have been much more severe in my comments about this freshman than DRAV was about Heytvelt.

Luckily, our team finished the same as it would have otherwise had this teammate not given blood. Of course, he finished well below expectations. KNUCKLEHEAD! He could have given blood any time!

treehorn
03-13-2007, 08:21 AM
94zagoldwomanasherdsmen wrote: ... don't really expect much fishing savvy coming from New York City, no offense to the folks over there.

As I recall there is a casting pond in Central Park, and NY fishermen are an ingenious lot:


That reminds me of the guy I read about who used to fly-fish for rats in Central Park. As I recall, he was fishing or practice-casting at a Central Park lake when a rat grabbed his backcast as it lay on the ground. This gave him the idea of casting bright-colored flies into ratty areas of the park and seeing what he came up with. He caught a lot of rats. Sometimes a hooked rat ran away from him, sometimes it ran at him. Sometimes a big one took quite a bit of line before he could reel it in. The unhooking process was dicey and involved oven mitts and corn tongs.

Ian Frazier, Outside Magazine (http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/0697/9706newyork.html). (Frazier's book, The Fish's Eye, Essays About Angling And The Outdoors, is a good read, BTW).

DawgZag
03-13-2007, 01:16 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/sports/ncaabasketball/13gonzaga.html?em&ex=1173931200&en=6ef43233ba4173ea&ei=5087%0A

MedZag
03-13-2007, 01:23 PM
Assuming they are accurate, DR's comments abt JH seem harsh, esp after all this time has past. Compare them w David's, which are more conciliatory and resonate leadership.

Josh, until his apology following his trial when he got invited to rejoin practice, had pretty much avoided confronting any of the members of the basketball team, especially the seniors in Rav and Mallon. This included walking past them on campus.

Yeah, I can see where Derek was coming from.

soonerterp
03-14-2007, 01:14 AM
I agree with FuManShoes. Raivio's comments are completely understandable given that Josh's behavior had the potential to ruin DRav's senior season. These guys make incredible sacrifices--from all of the off-season conditioning and work, to the grind during the season--and must trust and depend upon one another to succeed. Josh's actions exhibited a betrayal of that trust--trust which he'll have to earn back to join the team next year.

What he said.

That was a great article, though.

yourmom
03-14-2007, 02:11 AM
Yeah, I can see where Derek was coming from.

As can I. There's no love lost between those two, and I'm sure DR has more things to say that aren't exactly appropriate for the newspaper.

jazzdelmar
03-14-2007, 06:14 AM
Lotsa insinuations that DR's tude tow JH is justifiable, but no facts...Anyone care to offer some?

sonuvazag
03-14-2007, 07:05 AM
Lotsa insinuations that DR's tude tow JH is justifiable, but no facts...Anyone care to offer some?

Yes, I am Derek Raivio and my attitude is justified. That's a fact, Jack.

ZagPants
03-14-2007, 07:16 AM
Yes, I am Derek Raivio and my attitude is justified. That's a fact, Jack.

Wait one damn minute. I thought I was Derik Ravvio!

Oh sorry, that's my porn name.

MedZag
03-14-2007, 10:39 AM
Lotsa insinuations that DR's tude tow JH is justifiable, but no facts...Anyone care to offer some?

Those sorts of "facts" would be deleted on this message board due to the fact that nothing like that would ever work its way into an article or news quote. But there's plenty of them.

pdxzagfan
03-14-2007, 11:36 AM
I don't think it's hard to put two and two together....but I also don't think it's an appropriate topic for this message board.

yourmom
03-14-2007, 05:31 PM
Exactly, they're not appropriate for a message board, but they are out there. So DR's attitude is justifiable.