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vparcher
03-12-2007, 04:02 PM
No trial, keeps his nose clean for a year and all is well.

Bocco
03-12-2007, 04:04 PM
Link? Source?

TheZagPhish
03-12-2007, 04:07 PM
http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6216687

vparcher
03-12-2007, 04:08 PM
Krem news at 5

zagmantis2001
03-12-2007, 04:13 PM
Someone I know sat in on the hearing. He will do 240 hours of community service, random testing and issued an apology.

MDABE80
03-12-2007, 04:18 PM
This the usual and customary sentence for ALL 1st time offenders. Has nothing to do with being a good or bad basketball player. It's been this way since one of our own grads founded the "Drug Court" years and years ago. So now, Josh and Theo are off for the rest of the year . Exactly what was predicted. Abe

beatProgram
03-12-2007, 04:24 PM
That's good news. Glad to see that the Spokie locals didn't decide to make an example of either of these kids.

Though I'd suspect most people feel like favoritism would come into play when the University came up to the plate to issue their consequences.

I'll be interested to know what happens with that. Theo could well be let off, but if Josh is I can think of at least two prior GU students who should take issue, perhaps legally, with the University over prematurely terminating their stay at Gonzaga.

zagmantis2001
03-12-2007, 04:28 PM
I'm a "spokie local" whatever that means. People here are generally open-minded and support giving the kid another chance.

OregonZag5
03-12-2007, 04:38 PM
In Oregon we have drug court and the person must make regualr appearences, have randon ua's and attend some classes- if they fail at any of that then what happens the matter is set for trial on the original drug charge. What happened to Josh is what would happen in Oregon with a person with no record- and he was not selling etc but rather charged with possession. I wish him the best as he may think the year will be easy but one would be surprised in how many people screw up the chance.

beatProgram
03-12-2007, 04:45 PM
I'm a "spokie local" whatever that means. People here are generally open-minded and support giving the kid another chance.

I was referring to the "justice system" rather than the community on this one. Sorry for the confusion.

Angelo Roncalli
03-12-2007, 04:54 PM
Theo will have the opportunity for a misdemeanor first time offender diversion program with much less strenuous obligations.

If things go as anticipated, neither will have a criminal conviction.

SageOfZagville
03-12-2007, 06:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2796442

Spike94
03-12-2007, 06:09 PM
I know that I might be in the minority with this opinion, but as I try to teach my students, you should alway express what you believe in no matter how unpopular. I don't think reinstating Josh or Theo says the right thing about GU. I think it does show favoritism. I say this for this reason. When I attended GU, Josh and Theo would have been asked to leave immediatly and told not to come back. And with that ending their time on the basketball team. I am all for second chances, God knows I made mistakes, but GU needs to be consistent. I also want to make it clear that I will ALWAYS be a Zag lover with or without Josh and Theo. But, I just wanted to express my reluctance to them coming back.

Peace

Zagdawg
03-12-2007, 06:42 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion--

This is one of those situations that no parent would ever want to go through-- but-Spike-- if Josh were your son-- would you feel the same way?--

We Zag fans are family-- I am willing to give Josh another chance---

23dpg
03-12-2007, 06:44 PM
Spike,

I disagree with your position but I really admire the fact that you posted it knowing that it would be unpopular.

I believe in second chances with provisions that must be absolutely met. If they are, I will support Josh and Theo coming back.

I didn't think they would ever play for GU again. But after hearing Few on ESPN tonight, I think they will.

wazZag
03-12-2007, 06:46 PM
It is good news. If Josh complies with all of the requirements which I'm confident he will, he deserves to rejoin the team. I think his future just got much brighter.

former1dog
03-12-2007, 06:49 PM
All due respect to Coach Few, but it isn't all up to him. Student Life will have a say in this one as well.

Time will tell. I have a feeling they will be back on the team and I hope that Coach Few is correct that it will end up being a great story.

I also hope that most of Josh's community service is speaking to teenagers about the dangers of drug use. Hopefully he'll make an impression on someone so that they do not repeat his mistakes.

Second hardest part of Josh's potential comeback will be going on the road. All of those fans will be accutely aware of his past and will not let him or the team forget. It will be rough. Hardest part, of course, will be earning back the trust of his team.

SteeleMan
03-12-2007, 06:55 PM
Has Coach Few issued a statement on this?

I'm not sure what to think. I surely hope a "lesson" has been learned and JH can come back clean and sober and focus on his responsibilities (family(s), school, team) and become a better person.

I would hate to see his arrival back break up any chemistry the remaining Zags have developed over the last month or so. DR graduates, so Pargo/Bouldin/Pmac can look to send JH the ball down low.

former1dog
03-12-2007, 07:00 PM
Has Coach Few issued a statement on this?



Several statements.


http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=13860#post13860

NorthoftheBorder
03-12-2007, 07:02 PM
I'll be interested to know what happens with that. Theo could well be let off, but if Josh is I can think of at least two prior GU students who should take issue, perhaps legally, with the University over prematurely terminating their stay at Gonzaga.

BeatProgram,

Were these two GU students caught with drugs on campus or off-campus? Can you give us some more details of their situations?

Spike94
03-12-2007, 07:04 PM
I guess I would want my kid to have a second chance. I just love GU so much that I don't want to be looked at as sell outs to basketball. As much as I love GU basketball, I love GU more and I want to make sure it stays that very special place that it is to all of us. I guess as long as he is made to conform to some really serious regulations that will be OK. In any event I will alway bleed Zag blue. No matter what happens.

Peace

beatProgram
03-12-2007, 07:09 PM
I also hope that most of Josh's community service is speaking to teenagers about the dangers of drug use. Hopefully he'll make an impression on someone so that they do not repeat his mistakes.



Not to be contrary, but wouldn't that message be a lot more effective if he were allowed to stay at Gonzaga to finish his education and try to carve out a nice life for himself, but not be allowed to play on the basketball team?

Otherwise the effect would seem to be negated by a wise teenager saying, "Dangers? What dangers? You did drugs, got caught by the police, were in the national media for it, had basically nothing happen except being forced to come here and talk to me, and then got to go on to play more college ball and probably get to the NBA."

beatProgram
03-12-2007, 07:12 PM
BeatProgram,

Were these two GU students caught with drugs on campus or off-campus? Can you give us some more details of their situations?

If I recall correctly. They were caught off-campus, indirectly. Which gave Student Life reason to search their room on-campus. A combination of the events that transpired led one student to be explicitly expelled. The other student was forced out, but without putting expulsion on his transcript/record.

roxdoc
03-12-2007, 08:35 PM
In my mind the real issue is not Christian forgiveness, its putting next years terrific team in jeopardy if JH falls off the wagon. Lot at stake here folks.

Wordfixer
03-12-2007, 08:54 PM
Has Coach Few issued a statement on this?

I'm not sure what to think. I surely hope a "lesson" has been learned and JH can come back clean and sober and focus on his responsibilities (family(s), school, team) and become a better person.

I would hate to see his arrival back break up any chemistry the remaining Zags have developed over the last month or so. DR graduates, so Pargo/Bouldin/Pmac can look to send JH the ball down low.

I'm a California relative of JH's. He deserves another chance. I'm very familiar with his background and that of all his relatives. His extensive family tree is full of nothing but good, GOOD people---long, strong marriages, very respectable occupations, loving children, generous and faithful to their friends and families---a very "Norman Rockwell" group. It would amaze me if he did not take this lesson as a very serious corrective sign on how to lead a good life. I want to see him on the court again next year. He won't let GU down again.

RebornZag
03-12-2007, 09:02 PM
Glad you have your opinions, and Im glad you can share them. I agree that openness, honesty and truthfulness are good things to teach students. So are forgiveness, love and reconcilation. Reconciliation is somewhat of a new idea...Well it's really an old idea that is making it's way back into the modern world....It's easier, I think to judge (and be honest about your judgement) then it is to forgive......But it is a better way I believe.

GU, imo, has not been hurt from this event at all, and if they followed your adivice I believe they would have created a very long lasting problem for the University and the team......The world today is much different then a lot of people think it is. I am glad you speak your opinions, but more glad that GU is following the advice of others who think much differently then you do.

I have seen more people devastated by people who speak "The Truth." then you would think. Speaking the truth to someone is often done with the intention of hurting them, and in this sense it's a huge weapon that people use against another. Truth in the wrong hands is evil....And this is NOT an opionion...and I don't want to list all the books that deal with this subject right now. But this information was passed on to me at a time in my life when I was ready to receive it, and I'm glad someone shared it with me, and I hope you understand that I share this in the spirit of love and brotherhood....as a teacher, and as a Zag!!!

GonzagaLove
03-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Please don't demote me to a Junior Member!!:o

USF
03-12-2007, 09:46 PM
"GU, imo, has not been hurt from this event at all, and if they followed your adivice I believe they would have created a very long lasting problem for the University and the team......"

It's one thing to be loyal and another to bury your head in the sand.

Do you really think that GU has not been hurt "at all" by the arrests of 2 of your players? That's almost comical.

Of course GU has been hurt. There have been countless national stories about what happened and they were not at all flattering towards your program. Further, this story will continue at every away game next year when opportunistic student sections will make it their mission to never let either kid forget what they did. AND, if GU decided to expel the kids, I think many would have applauded the decision. Than includes many of your own fans. Expelling them would have sent a very strong message about what you expect from your student athletes.

That said, I agree with the legal adjudication. As a first offense, the punishment is appropriate.

And please don't respond talking about love and all of that. I don't understand why you even use that word on a basketball message board.

GonzagaGurl08
03-12-2007, 11:48 PM
Here's a link from the Gonzaga Bulletin.
:link: http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/user/index.cfm?event=displayregistrationprompt&requiredregistration=1&thereferer=http%3A//media.www.gonzagabulletin.com/media/storage/paper375/news/2007/03/09/News/Posted.31207.At.927.P.m.Heytvelt.Strikes.Deal.To.A void.Prosecution-2773573.shtml

Symi81
03-13-2007, 02:41 AM
The word love is entirely appropriate for a Gonzaga message board. As a Catholic Christian school, Gonzaga incorporates Jesus' Gospel of love and charity into all aspects of the University, including basketball. If you have a problem with that, you picked the wrong school to be a fan of.

Peace and love to all. :)

RebornZag
03-13-2007, 05:56 AM
"And please don't respond talking about love and all of that. I don't understand why you even use that word on a basketball message board."

I'm sorry the word LOVE bothers you when used in the world of basketball. I like the word myself, and as a matter of fact it's my FAVORITE word, and I am proud to use it here, especially in a thread that is in need of the concept, in my opinion....It's just my opinion USF....

"There's no greater love then when a man lays down his life for his brother." This concept is a concept that helps create a champion!!! Also when I said that Gonzaga has not been hurt by the incident I did not mean to imply that we (Gonzaga family) of course were very hurt (including me). It was a dark week for us all. The fact of our popularity around the country and world deepened the wound initially. What I implied in my statement is two things: First, that the Gonzaga image, overall, has not been tarnished. I think most people agree with the course that Gonzaga is taking, and has taken. Like I said, to have taken a different course could have caused greater damage to the image of Gonzaga, which afterall, is Jesuit University. I would assume that you don't know much about the Jesuits, and I understand that. The Jesuits are not a MAIN STREAM priestly order.

I appreciate your insight and vision as well, and I'm glad you responded here. I'm one who thinks everyone should talk here, and be heard...and we all have the great freedom to disagree with each other. Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to hearing from you often. I do like reading your posts, and always get something out of them...as I do on this one too....It's ok for us to disagree!!!

Peace!!! I hope we can agree on one thing, and that's to pound IU Thursday.

Angelo Roncalli
03-13-2007, 06:00 AM
"That said, I agree with the legal adjudication.

Maybe you should learn what the word "adjudication" means so that you can use it properly.

Zag509
03-13-2007, 06:07 AM
I would love to see Josh turn it around and help us next year, but i am so worried that is not the case. Hopefully i am wrong, but i just see this as a distraction next year. Everywhere we go it will be "Mr. Mushroom" chants and others much worse. We were hoping his child turned Josh around, and now we are hoping it was the drug bust? I hope im wrong guys, im praying Josh has really turned it around this time, but im far from sold on the idea.


That being said, if he does play next year, you have to forgive and forget and treat Josh like i never happened.

I think he looks good with a shave btw.

englishzag
03-13-2007, 07:23 AM
My 2nd year at GU I got caught cheating. Looking back I can't believe I would have ever been so stupid, but I was and I did it. After many meetings with numerous people I was put on academic probation and eventually graduated on time.

I appreciate this is not an AA meeting and confessions are not necessary, but GU could have easily expelled me and left me with little to no chance of getting into another school with an "expelled for cheating" on my transcript. Instead they made me change my outlook on many things and the day I graduated seeing my parents cry I realized just how much that second chance was truely worth. Not just to me as I already knew that but to my friends and family.

I am sure that the same lesson will be learned by these two and that is one of the reasons that parents can only hope their children look at GU when choosing colleges.

sonuvazag
03-13-2007, 07:38 AM
Want to throw my cents in on this one... and my statements include Theo as understood in this.

It doesn't sound like anyone who truly has a say on the inside has decided for Josh what his outcome will be... It sounds like they are setting up requirements for him to fulfill in order to "redeem" himself to the basketball team... He can either live up to these requirements as a sign of his commitment or not... I've also heard via Few's statements that he has apologized to his teammates which brings me relief.

I don't believe we should look at this like: I forgive you or don't forgive you Josh. Forgiveness is really up to God and that's a good thing because we're all dealing with our own anger and prejudices.

We should look at it as: this is the mountain you have to climb to be a part of the team again... are you willing to climb it? And then we welcome him back if he makes the effort. This would be sanity and this attitude would take the burden off of those of us who feel we need to make a judgement for him.

I respect GU for its position. They are giving him a chance, not a free ride. Redemption, I was taught, means to buy something back. It includes paying a toll.

ZagNative
03-13-2007, 08:11 AM
Want to throw my cents in on this one... and my statements include Theo as understood in this.

It doesn't sound like anyone who truly has a say on the inside has decided for Josh what his outcome will be... It sounds like they are setting up requirements for him to fulfill in order to "redeem" himself to the basketball team... He can either live up to these requirements as a sign of his commitment or not... I've also heard via Few's statements that he has apologized to his teammates which brings me relief.

I don't believe we should look at this like: I forgive you or don't forgive you Josh. Forgiveness is really up to God and that's a good thing because we're all dealing with our own anger and prejudices.

We should look at it as: this is the mountain you have to climb to be a part of the team again... are you willing to climb it? And then we welcome him back if he makes the effort. This would be sanity and this attitude would take the burden off of those of us who feel we need to make a judgement for him.

I respect GU for its position. They are giving him a chance, not a free ride. Redemption, I was taught, means to buy something back. It includes paying a toll. Great post. Thanks
G

USF
03-13-2007, 10:09 AM
ad·ju·di·ca·tion –noun

1. an act of adjudicating.
2. Law.
a. the act of a court in making an order, judgment, or decree.
b. a judicial decision or sentence.
c. a court decree in bankruptcy.

Didn't I use that term right? A "judicial decision". Isn't that what happened?

Angelo Roncalli
03-13-2007, 10:16 AM
There was no adjudication in this case. An adjudication is a judicial decision on the merits (judgment, verdict) as your definition points out. This case never reached the adjudication stage; there was a not guilty plea followed by a diversion agreement. The diversion criteria are not a sentence, a sentence cannot be imposed until there is an adjudication. If the diversion agreement requirements are met, the charges will be dismissed, with prejudice, and without an adjudication.

ZagPants
03-13-2007, 10:18 AM
I am so relieved that all this has been sorted out. I'm going to go adjudicate some lunch.

GU69
03-13-2007, 04:09 PM
I'm a California relative of JH's. He deserves another chance. I'm very familiar with his background and that of all his relatives. His extensive family tree is full of nothing but good, GOOD people---long, strong marriages, very respectable occupations, loving children, generous and faithful to their friends and families---a very "Norman Rockwell" group. It would amaze me if he did not take this lesson as a very serious corrective sign on how to lead a good life. I want to see him on the court again next year. He won't let GU down again.

Wordfixer,
I hope so.
Your comments are the most positive that I have seen in a while about Josh. I know nothing about him other than what I read here and on other boards, and I am aware that I have no way of verifying the accuracy of any of these internet posts (including yours).
However, the random gossip has suggested to me that Josh may be an immature young man who has made several poor decisions. I would be cautious about trusting him.
On the other hand, I trust Mark Few. And if Mark Few can reach a point where he can trust Josh enough to let him back on the team, then that is enough for me.

Fonebone
03-13-2007, 07:06 PM
I was told today by someone who is "periferally" connected to the program, that they let Josh shoot around with the team before practice starts, but once practice starts he has to leave. If true, I like it - it keeps everyone connected but allows them to practice without distraction. When there is an awkward or difficult situation, a lot of time the best thing is to just keep interacting with the person, over time the internal feelings and issues tend to get smoothed out and loosened up by actually interacting with them.

TheZagPhish
03-13-2007, 09:41 PM
I don't know Josh and I certainly don't know basketball like most of you, but I can't help but recognize that Josh really chose a tougher path here. No one knows more than him that the taunts and jeers will ring in gyms for a long, long time. No one knows more the forthcoming task of picking up the pieces and earning respect slowly, tenuously. He didn't bail and there would have been no easier time to do so.

Also, it seems to me that Few is offering him the clearest shot at the dream life Josh has imagined and worked toward. I believe that Josh knows this all too well and will be eager to do whatever is asked of him. The prize is worth it and it very nearly slipped away.

I am rooting purely for today's team, mighty warriors (in Reborn parlance) and honorable men who did repeatedly what many didn't think they could do at all. But later this spring I'll start looking forward to a humbler, clear-headed Heytvelt focusing his deep talent to deliver monstrous plays in '07-'08.

This may yet turn into one of GU's greatest stories of grace, faith and guidance - and that's something everyone will feel good about.

former1dog
03-14-2007, 07:51 AM
In regards to bringing Josh and Theo back into the fold:

Having experienced situations in my life where people I love have messed up like Josh and Theo, a healthy amount of tough love is required when bringing these folks back into your life.

Josh has obviously had some travails in his young life and is learning about responsible, adult behaviour the hard way. Forgiveness is essential in any circumstance IMO as a Christian. Forgetting, well that is another issue all together.

In my opinion, the Gonzaga community does a disservice to these young men if there is not a healthy amount of skepticism about their actions and intent. They do need to walk on eggshells for awhile before they can regain our trust. Regaining our trust the right way will ultimately teach them the life lessons that will serve them well.

If student life, Coach Few and ultimately the team brings them back into the fold, we should as a fan base support those decisions collectively. BUT, let us not be naive. Let us not trust unconditionally. Let these young men prove themselves worthy of that trust over the long haul.

Tough love, my fellow Bulldog Brethren is the right kind of love to show.

Peace.

ZagPants
03-14-2007, 08:19 AM
In regards to bringing Josh and Theo back into the fold:

The spoons...in my eyes...they do nothing!

Zag79
03-14-2007, 10:01 AM
LOL. a few of your holy posts crack me up. the college kid got caught with some dope. learn from it, grow, and man up. thats it. the dont need you God-like forgiveness or need to earn your trust back. they need to stay away from the dope, play ball and go to class, and be good people in general. thats it.

jbslicer
03-14-2007, 10:14 AM
I say give him a second chance. The perjurer-in-chief has had several second chances. So why not Josh.

Wordfixer
03-14-2007, 10:17 AM
I don't know Josh and I certainly don't know basketball like most of you, but I can't help but recognize that Josh really chose a tougher path here. No one knows more than him that the taunts and jeers will ring in gyms for a long, long time. No one knows more the forthcoming task of picking up the pieces and earning respect slowly, tenuously. He didn't bail and there would have been no easier time to do so.

Also, it seems to me that Few is offering him the clearest shot at the dream life Josh has imagined and worked toward. I believe that Josh knows this all too well and will be eager to do whatever is asked of him. The prize is worth it and it very nearly slipped away.

I am rooting purely for today's team, mighty warriors (in Reborn parlance) and honorable men who did repeatedly what many didn't think they could do at all. But later this spring I'll start looking forward to a humbler, clear-headed Heytvelt focusing his deep talent to deliver monstrous plays in '07-'08.

This may yet turn into one of GU's greatest stories of grace, faith and guidance - and that's something everyone will feel good about.

Well said! My feelings exactly. Thanks.

thickman1
03-14-2007, 10:36 AM
So what's the deal with Theo? Is he back with the team? Does he practice with them now or is he still suspended indefinitely? He seems to have been lost in the shuffle here..