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View Full Version : WE still get no respect--how else do you explain



realtydog
09-17-2008, 07:40 AM
MSU Billings--Idaho---Portland State--USC Upstate--Texas Southern---How come we can't draw better out of conference home games--thank goodness for the four year Memphis deal (which ends now) or this would be a complete bust--someone with knowledge tell us why we can't bring in better competition???? what do we get out of playing texas Southern?? why are we so happy to be playing USC Upstate prior to the tournament?? that game will be a huge blowout---fraud---don't compare out of conference schedules with WSU UW blah blah blah---they each have at least 9 quality home games--it would be even worse for us if SD and St. mary's were not where they currently are--I never thought I would say thank goodness we have SD and STM at home--finally a decent game in Spoke---sorry for the rant, but don't we garner a little respect--do we really have to play all these great games on the road????????

cbbfanatic
09-17-2008, 08:29 AM
Standard gu fan response would often read as "they're scared of losing to us"

A more practical answer would be that spokane is a logistical nightmare for most east coast and midwest teams, and those teams definitely have numerous options for gu caliber ooc opponents much closer to them, while the pac ten teams might want to branch out more nationally for higher profile ooc games to expand their own influence and recognition. This leaves gu in a tough spot, though they've gotten some pac ten teams to play them at home recently - something I think they should pursue as hard as possible -- can they really not get home and homes with oregon?

Gu has also set a precedent that they'll do one year neutral site deals, which will make their high profile targets more willing to go that route as opposed to making the trek to spokane, since they know that option is on the table. All things considered, there just isn't enough upside or influence to draw teams to spokane - gonzaga just doesn't have that leverage with the big boys - it doesn't create enough of a marquee setting on its own, gonzaga NEEDS its opponent to make the game, gonzaga alone cannot yet do it.

I don't think you have to worry about losing the memphis deal though, that one is truly in both schools best interest and there is a mutual "need" there.

Just my two cents

gu03alum
09-17-2008, 08:30 AM
---fraud---don't compare out of conference schedules with WSU UW blah blah blah---they each have at least 9 quality home games--

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

That means that their schedule is easier since they only play 'Quality' games at home. Our out of conference schedule is one of the toughest in the nation.

TacomaZAG
09-17-2008, 08:35 AM
because no high profile program will play us in the kennel (even Memphis). We are victims of our own success in "our house", going back many years. Why are we able to get top flite competition for the BIS??? Because it isn't played at the Kennel. There is no way UConn, Tennessee, OK St., et al would ever come to the Kennel. The only way we can schedule that caliber of teams is a home/neutral or at pre-season tournament at a neutral site. Stanford, UW, and the Cougs are the only Pac-10 teams who have ventured into the Kennel in recent years and I doubt that Stanford and the puppies will be back. We are playing Arizona down there this year, but I don't know the return arrangement, or if there even is one.

Top flite competition has nothing to gain by coming into the Kennel, so it won't happen. We are approaching the status that will allow us to DEMAND true home/home arrangements but we aren't quite there yet. A Final Four would finally kick that door open, till then we do the best we can in the OOC shedule.

That's just the way it is, life isn't fair.

Go Zags.........

cbbfanatic
09-17-2008, 08:40 AM
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

That means that their schedule is easier since they only play 'Quality' games at home. Our out of conference schedule is one of the toughest in the nation.

Those 9 tough home games he mentioned are all duplicated on the road, if I'm reading it correctly as the pac ten sched. This was obvious, no?

And in all reality, the toughest ooc sched will not match a run or the mill in conference sched in the p10, big east, big 12 etc.

A very good ooc sched consists of 5 or so "challenge" games, you can pretty much double that in the big conferences. Its a reality that is often overlooked, I don't think there's a more overvalued figure in college ball than ooc sos - all that matters, or should matter, is a teams overall sos. No need for subsets of this statistic.

MickMick
09-17-2008, 09:04 AM
Here is my take.

You don't make money on student attendance (ie. McCarthy), albeit they certainly add to the atmosphere and their presence gives a great home court advantage.

You make money in Key Arena and Spokane Arena by selling tickets at premium prices to people that seize a rare opportunity to see the Zags play live.

You get what you pay for.

Free (virtually) ticket = MSU Billings

$100 ticket (or more) = Memphis/UConn.

How simple is that?

realtydog
09-17-2008, 09:21 AM
for top ranked teams to come to Spokane---but come on GU---several teams in the Mountain West, top half of WAC or bottom of the Pac-10--seem like great canidates----why can't we play NM State or oregon State...etc

former1dog
09-17-2008, 09:33 AM
Realty,

If you're a coach of a top flight team that has a lot of inexperienced talent along with veteran starters, how do you get that inexperienced talent some extended game time?

realtydog
09-17-2008, 09:45 AM
so I schedule cupcakes at home ....where these "inexperienced" payers are most comfortable---and I take them on the road to play some monsters---hey I love the made for tv games---but to stay on point---why is there no home and home with oregon State, Utah State, BSU...etc...

CDC84
09-17-2008, 09:49 AM
I'll tell you this....I would have gladly taken on a Pac 10 schedule in 2006/07 in place of Gonzaga's non-league schedule that season. It wasn't just that the sked involved games versus Baylor, North Carolina, Butler, Texas, Washington, Washington State, Georgia, Duke, Nevada, Virginia, Stanford and Memphis....it was the fact that GU had to make 3 east coast trips in the span of 1.5 months. They also had to play 5 games in 10 days at one point due to their inability to fit in the Stanford game during the months of November and December. They also played on the road or on neutral sites versus tough opponents after finals and Christmas break. That non-league schedule would have destroyed the psyche of almost every BCS team. I don't care how tough league play is in a BCS conference....it ain't nothing like what GU had to endure that season.

It is my belief that if Gonzaga really wanted to, they could probably get some home and homes going with middle of the pack BCS teams like Mississippi State who are located in remote areas and who have a real hard time getting decent teams to come play them at home. There are BCS programs who have a long history of agreeing to home and homes with programs outside of the BCS leagues. The problem - and it's a good problem to have - is that Gonzaga keeps getting invited to play in these tournaments and made for TV games versus big time, top 25 opponents - with so many of the games taking place on neutral or semi-neutral sites. It's really hard to turn down those games because: 1) Nobody outside of the BCS leagues gets those kinds of offers at the rate Gonzaga does 2) Once you develop a reputation for turning them down, the offers may not come as frequently 3) One off Neutral or semi-neutral games vs. elite opponents are a great way to gain marquee wins, and if you lose, it goes down as a quality loss. The fact of the matter is that Gonzaga is going to have to turn down some of these tournaments and made for TV games if they want to get home and homes going with schools like Mississippi State, Minnesota, Kansas State, etc. Otherwise the travel and non-league sked overall will just get too challenging. At the same time, if GU does this, their victories over Minnesota and Kansas State just aren't going to look as good as potential victories over Memphis and Michigan State.

Something else to keep in mind.....there are all sorts of elite programs like Duke who not only won't play at Gonzaga....they won't voluntarily play on the road versus any BCS team. The only reason that Duke is playing at Purdue this year is because of the Big 10/ACC challenge. It's out of their hands. The normal Duke non-league scheduling would involve them sitting at home and playing a game or two at Madison Square Garden. In other words, it's not to be taken as an insult if Duke turns down an offer to play at GU because almost everyone is getting turned down.

SteelCityZag
09-17-2008, 09:53 AM
For this reason, it is important that we lock up some home-and-homes with the likes of:

Xavier
Nevada
Butler
Southern Illinois
Drake
UNLV
Utah
St. Joes

Though our situation is unique, what would prevent schools like these, with simmilar situations, to help each other out.

Nevtelen
09-17-2008, 10:27 AM
For this reason, it is important that we lock up some home-and-homes with the likes of:

Xavier
Nevada
Butler
Southern Illinois
Drake
UNLV
Utah
St. Joes

Though our situation is unique, what would prevent schools like these, with simmilar situations, to help each other out.

I like the St Joe's games and I like the Utah series. Besides, Memphis (who i hope we keep up the series with - good for both teams) I do think GU should make an effort to have 2 Home-and-Homes going with teams like this so that K2 sees a quality game from one of these types of teams every year. I do think it would be beneficial.

I understand that there are perhaps some problems involved - while most of us might be pumped about a series with Butler or S Illinois, many more 'causal' fans might not get so excited about it. Plus, it's a little more risky - not necessarialy a 'good loss' if the Zags drop one @ wherever (depending on the team and the year) but still maybe a tough game (think about Utah this year). Plus there's the travel involved in going to Xavier or Butler or wherever - the team travels A LOT anyway in any given year and adding more to that could be very problematic (sort of like this season, perhaps) in terms of the team getting fatigued, missing class time, etc.

I still submit that 2 HnHs with teams of this caliber would be worthwhile.

cbbfanatic
09-17-2008, 10:29 AM
I agree with steelcityzag - those are good targets (with the exception of a team like drake) to maybe replace an idaho of csf type team on thw sched.

Xavier would be ideal I think, very similar situation to gonzaga

KSTATEZAG
09-17-2008, 10:45 AM
I'll tell you this....I would have gladly taken on a Pac 10 schedule in 2006/07 in place of Gonzaga's non-league schedule that season. It wasn't just that the sked involved games versus Baylor, North Carolina, Butler, Texas, Washington, Washington State, Georgia, Duke, Nevada, Virginia, Stanford and Memphis....it was the fact that GU had to make 3 east coast trips in the span of 1.5 months. They also had to play 5 games in 10 days at one point due to their inability to fit in the Stanford game during the months of November and December. They also played on the road or on neutral sites versus tough opponents after finals and Christmas break. That non-league schedule would have destroyed the psyche of almost every BCS team. I don't care how tough league play is in a BCS conference....it ain't nothing like what GU had to endure that season.

It is my belief that if Gonzaga really wanted to, they could probably get some home and homes going with middle of the pack BCS teams like Mississippi State who are located in remote areas and who have a real hard time getting decent teams to come play them at home. There are BCS programs who have a long history of agreeing to home and homes with programs outside of the BCS leagues. The problem - and it's a good problem to have - is that Gonzaga keeps getting invited to play in these tournaments and made for TV games versus big time, top 25 opponents - with so many of the games taking place on neutral or semi-neutral sites. It's really hard to turn down those games because: 1) Nobody outside of the BCS leagues gets those kinds of offers at the rate Gonzaga does 2) Once you develop a reputation for turning them down, the offers may not come as frequently 3) One off Neutral or semi-neutral games vs. elite opponents are a great way to gain marquee wins, and if you lose, it goes down as a quality loss. The fact of the matter is that Gonzaga is going to have to turn down some of these tournaments and made for TV games if they want to get home and homes going with schools like Mississippi State, Minnesota, Kansas State, etc. Otherwise the travel and non-league sked overall will just get too challenging. At the same time, if GU does this, their victories over Minnesota and Kansas State just aren't going to look as good as potential victories over Memphis and Michigan State.

Something else to keep in mind.....there are all sorts of elite programs like Duke who not only won't play at Gonzaga....they won't voluntarily play on the road versus any BCS team. The only reason that Duke is playing at Purdue this year is because of the Big 10/ACC challenge. It's out of their hands. The normal Duke non-league scheduling would involve them sitting at home and playing a game or two at Madison Square Garden. In other words, it's not to be taken as an insult if Duke turns down an offer to play at GU because almost everyone is getting turned down.

Hey bubba...what's wrong with Kansas State ;)

Rubbadub
09-17-2008, 11:00 AM
St. Joe's was fun. Beautiful campus. I wouldn't mind going up there every other year to catch a GU game. The only difficult thing was getting a ticket. That little gym was PACKED.

I'd almost rather we play larger state schools at a neutral court just so I can get a ticket for less than $120 or whatever it was I paid.

MJGoGaels
09-17-2008, 12:35 PM
MSU Billings--Idaho---Portland State--USC Upstate--Texas Southern---How come we can't draw better out of conference home games--thank goodness for the four year Memphis deal (which ends now) or this would be a complete bust--someone with knowledge tell us why we can't bring in better competition???? what do we get out of playing texas Southern?? why are we so happy to be playing USC Upstate prior to the tournament?? that game will be a huge blowout---fraud---don't compare out of conference schedules with WSU UW blah blah blah---they each have at least 9 quality home games--it would be even worse for us if SD and St. mary's were not where they currently are--I never thought I would say thank goodness we have SD and STM at home--finally a decent game in Spoke---sorry for the rant, but don't we garner a little respect--do we really have to play all these great games on the road????????

Sounds like your gripping as a FAN instead of as a Basketball coach of a top 20 team, which is okay, but doesn't mean very much in terms of the art of scheduling for RPI, seeding in the NCAA and making sure that the team can handle the demands of travel, school work and confidence of the team.

I think GU does an amazing job in its negotiations all things considered. SMC is having an extraordinarily difficult time in getting any OOC home games. We have 4 home games confirmed and that is it. We even have offered $100K guaranty to smoke out some teams and have not had takers. We'll be lucky if we get 6 OOC home games this season. Success creates new challenges for SMC and playing as a top 40 team (according to most pundits) who is truly in the growing pains as a small college (financial status) playing among the BCS powers.

While GU has arrived and STAYED at the top for over 10 years, one cannot escape the laws of economics and the well earned reputation as a giant killer. Negotiating Seattle or Spokane Arenas are great opportunities to have more fans see a GU game, expanding fan base, and create additional revenue (assumption on my part). The season ticketholder income is the same whether there is 16 home games or 12 (sans the consession revenues) so if having 4 more games in neutral sites gets more money and better opponents into the state of Washington - I would say that is smart, strategic and advantegous coaching and adminisration of a money making sports program for GU, which enables more budgetary dollars to be spread among the entire athletic program.

Thus, its not about respect - GU is well regarded nationally, I think coaches and AD respect the home court advantage by staying away from K2, unless they are coming to K2 for a paycheck and a beat down

23dpg
09-17-2008, 12:51 PM
MJ, You make many very persuasive points. Well stated. Especially when compared to some who come on here with nothing but pith and backhanded compliments.

Zagdawg
09-17-2008, 01:07 PM
Ditto what 23 said about the good points--

realtydog
09-17-2008, 02:00 PM
if you are NM State, UNLV, Boise State etc...You jump on a chance to do a home and home with Duke, UCLA, Kentucky..etc etc---we offer a home and home and it is not the same for them-----and from a previous post---I would do what Duke does also--play in a preseason tourney..maybe--cupcakes at home---maybe one road game with another top team-----because I play most of the season in the ACC----we know Portland gets up to play GU---but have you ever been to a college game outside of the NW---you should see how other foes "get up" for the Dukes, UCOnns and the like

realtydog
09-17-2008, 02:01 PM
??who is the ranked team---not to mention they have GU at home also

former1dog
09-17-2008, 02:54 PM
??who is the ranked team---not to mention they have GU at home also

Utah is located in Salt Lake City. Travel is very easy, all direct flights in and out.

I do agree that that is a top notch schedule for UTAH, though. Maybe I'll have to go to more than just the GU game. :)

CaliforniaZaggin'
09-17-2008, 03:01 PM
Here is my take.

You don't make money on student attendance (ie. McCarthy), albeit they certainly add to the atmosphere and their presence gives a great home court advantage.

You make money in Key Arena and Spokane Arena by selling tickets at premium prices to people that seize a rare opportunity to see the Zags play live.

You get what you pay for.

Free (virtually) ticket = MSU Billings

$100 ticket (or more) = Memphis/UConn.

How simple is that?


Well said. For better or worse, college sports are big business. Having two well-known, competitive college basketball teams play in small venue isn't good business.

MickMick
09-17-2008, 03:06 PM
It really boils down to dollars and schedule. The Zags are going to schedule roughly a dozen games in the state of Washington.

They need a nice mix of games that appease the student body at a reasonable cost to lure the opponent in. They also need a few games to generate income, satisfy FSN/ESPN2, and expand the fan base. There is a history of bringing in the likes of Georgia, Stanford, Virginia, etc. To expect it all to mesh perfectly for every season is asking a bit much.

MJGoGaels presented all of this beautifully. Further, he demonstrated the difficulties for SMC of bringing (buying) teams into their place. Mark Few once described scheduling as "more difficult than recruiting." Imagine if he didn't have the friendships/connections with the likes of Barnes of Texas or the St. Joseph coach?

Randy Bennett will make connections along the way. That is the reason why continuity is so important. Constant turnover and turmoil raises havoc with more than just recruiting. It takes a toll on the scheduling as well.

CDC84
09-17-2008, 03:45 PM
Keep in mind that Utah plays in a 15,000 seat on campus basketball facility and is also a football school. I don't think any Pac 10 arena seats that much. Lots of revenue.

dim4sum
09-17-2008, 08:22 PM
I think the schedule represents a nice blend of patsies at home and goliaths on the road. I'd rather that they scheduled a Seattle University or Eastern, which would have created some regional interest. This is Seattle U's first crack in many moons with a semi-Div. 1 schedule. They are likely to join the WCC at some point, so a game with the Zags could be a marker for how far they have to come.

krozman
09-17-2008, 09:16 PM
I think the schedule represents a nice blend of patsies at home and goliaths on the road. .

Tell that to the season ticket holders who would actually like to witness a few competitive non conference games!

CDC84
09-17-2008, 10:20 PM
Tell that to the season ticket holders who would actually like to witness a few competitive non conference games!

I think that's the central argument here. Should Gonzaga say no to some preseason tournaments and neutral "made for TV" games versus elite teams in order to bring some teams like Xavier or Mississippi State into K2? It's one or the other. If you add the home and homes without subtracting from the tournament/made for TV games, the schedule is just going to be too tough to handle. There is something to be said for keeping season ticket holders happy.
Needless to say, if the WCC keeps getting better, this might alter Gonzaga's scheduling philosophy to a degree.

LongIslandZagFan
09-18-2008, 06:35 AM
I am sure that I'd have a different opinion if I were living in Spokane and had season tix. But I'd rather have the schedules we have with a good balance of really tough teams and some "filler" than to get home and homes with middle of the pack BCS and strong non-BCS teams. BCS schools aren't leaving the friendly confines of their own courts unless there is money involved and the Kennel just doesn't offer that revenue that makes it worth their while to come out to Spokane.

cjm720
09-18-2008, 06:46 AM
RealtyDog, you have it backwards!

My take is that it's the ultimate respect for teams unwilling to play and lose in K2. Beyond dollars, scheduling, and travel there are a lot of high-majors that simply don't want to lose to a mid-major conference level school. Period. This has been the case for years, because the Kennel is so notorious. In my recollection, we've held two of the longest home win streaks in the nation at different times over the last 15 years or so.

"Not in our House" comes to mind here.

GO ZAGS!!!!!

Zagdawg
09-18-2008, 08:41 AM
I like both "Not in our House" and "Anybody Anywhere"--

These mindsets have put the Zags on the map (along with a few good players and teams and a little bit of luck......)

229SintoZag
09-18-2008, 09:07 PM
My thoughts;

Our home schedule this year is an embarrassment and a disservice to the fine team we have put together--probably our most talented ever--and to the season ticket holders. There is no putting lipstick on this pig.

CDC, I strongly disagree with your post. Classic false dichotomy.

Here's an idea: how about if instead of dropping UConn or Memphis or Arizona to do a quality home and home, we drop any one of the following instead?

USC Upstate
Montana State Billings
Texas Southern
Idaho
Portland State

I will say it again: our home schedule this year is an embarrassment to Gonzaga, an insult to the team (none of whom turned down BCS offers to play USC Upstate as their homecoming game), and a huge letdown to the fans that support the program with actual money (i.e., the season ticket holders).

I know as an undisputed, ironclad fact that I am not the only season ticket holder who feels this way.

zagporvida
09-19-2008, 05:22 AM
for those season ticket holders are upset maybe you should not renew them for next year and give those of us on the waitlist a shot at watching some (hopefully) easy wins in our kennel.

i personally don't mind watching a fun, high scoring, all players get to play type of game in our arena. we will have enough competition on the road or at neutral sites to get our guys up for the tournament.

just my 2 cents

zag70
09-19-2008, 08:11 AM
It is not a question of renewal. It will be a question re donations in the future. The mandatory building fund contribution expires with this season. The result: A decrease in ticket price to every season ticket holder. The costs for maintaining McCarthy Center continue. Donations in 09-10 will be voluntary. If in fact there is not a more challenging/interesting schedule in 09-10, the donations will not be there. Why should one donate $5000. to see a program play the likes of the 08-09 home schedule? Not all of us can travel to see games in Orlando or Maui. Just food for thought re the future.

229SintoZag
09-19-2008, 10:07 AM
I actually am concerned that this is starting to be a potential recruiting issue.

Seriously. We play nobody at home on our own campus. How many top recruits want to sign up when all quality games against top 25 caliber teams will be on the road?

No disrespect to our fine WCC brethren like St. Mary's, but getting to play the Gaels on our campus is not much of a selling point when recruiting against BCS teams who all will play their entire conference at home every year.

As for BCS teams that have come to K2, someone mentioned WSU, UW, and Stanford, but forgot to mention Virginia.

One final thought: I concede it is no easy task to get top 25 type BCS teams here, and it will usually involve something like what was at play in Virginia (a deal to play in their new arena in return) and Stanford (Gameday). That said, I am not at all convinced--not even close--that we have made efforts to get teams like Creighton, Southern Illinois, and Xavier to do home and homes (as just a few examples). And even if not them, we should do the middle of the road BCS teams like Miss St. rather than USC Upstate.

Scheduling Texas Southern and USC Upstate has the acrid stench of procrastination about it. We need to be more proactive in getting decent (but perhaps not great) teams on our schedule earlier, rather than filling a bunch of slots with these also rans at the last minute. No matter what we do this year this is going to be a huge anchor on our RPI. We may well have 3 or 4 teams with 300+ RPIS just in our OOC, not to mention what we might see at the bottom of the WCC.

That said, I understand how tough scheduling is and all in all I am impressed with the overall caliber of our schedule in terms of the number of decent opponents. Whether at K2 or elsewhere I expect a great season. Go Zags.

229

Nevtelen
09-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I actually am concerned that this is starting to be a potential recruiting issue.

Seriously. We play nobody at home on our own campus. How many top recruits want to sign up when all quality games against top 25 caliber teams will be on the road?

No disrespect to our fine WCC brethren like St. Mary's, but getting to play the Gaels on our campus is not much of a selling point when recruiting against BCS teams who all will play their entire conference at home every year.

As for BCS teams that have come to K2, someone mentioned WSU, UW, and Stanford, but forgot to mention Virginia.

One final thought: I concede it is no easy task to get top 25 type BCS teams here, and it will usually involve something like what was at play in Virginia (a deal to play in their new arena in return) and Stanford (Gameday). That said, I am not at all convinced--not even close--that we have made efforts to get teams like Creighton, Southern Illinois, and Xavier to do home and homes (as just a few examples). And even if not them, we should do the middle of the road BCS teams like Miss St. rather than USC Upstate.

Scheduling Texas Southern and USC Upstate has the acrid stench of procrastination about it. We need to be more proactive in getting decent (but perhaps not great) teams on our schedule earlier, rather than filling a bunch of slots with these also rans at the last minute. No matter what we do this year this is going to be a huge anchor on our RPI. We may well have 3 or 4 teams with 300+ RPIS just in our OOC, not to mention what we might see at the bottom of the WCC.

That said, I understand how tough scheduling is and all in all I am impressed with the overall caliber of our schedule in terms of the number of decent opponents. Whether at K2 or elsewhere I expect a great season. Go Zags.

229

I think you're making this much much bigger than it is. It will never be a recruiting issue. We probably have 2 300 + RPI teams on the schedule (Texas S and USC Upstate, with Idaho probably in the mid or upper 200s at a guess) and *maybe* 1 in the WCC (with a couple in the high 200s in all probability). Not worse than most BCS teams.

I do think that a couple of the worse games could be against better teams - sure you need 1 Idaho-type game, but the others could be at least middle of the road mids instead of very low majors.

OTOH, honestly, you should just get used to it because it will not ever change. I'm pretty convinced its a money issue, period, and that just isn't going to change. Besides regional rivalries, no BCS team has set foot in K2 except for Stanford for Game Day (or 1 special case like Virginia). Unless we somehow manage to have a Game Day every year, no decent BCS team will come because they can make a lot more $$ staying home or playing in some neutral site tourney. Period. How many BCS teams go on the road and play other BCS teams at home outside of conference? Very very few in any given year (unless there's some challenge involved, like the Big 10/ACC).

zagporvida
09-19-2008, 05:03 PM
Maybe we should do a WCC/WAC challenge every year or with another conference.

MJGoGaels
09-19-2008, 05:38 PM
if you are NM State, UNLV, Boise State etc...You jump on a chance to do a home and home with Duke, UCLA, Kentucky..etc etc---we offer a home and home and it is not the same for them-----

Dog thanks for the nod. However, no top 20 or BCS power negotiates a pure home and home with a MWC, WAC or MVC (name your mid-major). If they do a home and home, the first home game always starts at the top dog, ie, @ UCLA. Second, there's a penalty clause of $50-100K, which UCLA will pay and not return to the lucky mid-major team such as NM State. So really what you have is a guaranteed game disguised as a home and home through contractual escape clauses for a penalty. If you know a true home and home game series that are regularly honored and fulfilled, please so indicate otherwise I must doubt the reality of your proposition, ie, that UCLA plays home and home with NM State. Economically, it just does not happen. UCLA is better off paying the penalty and having one more home game (more revenue to off-set penalty) with the next mid-major, eg, Boise State who will negotiate the same thing as NM State.

Let me give you some nitty gritty about SMC scheduling. Last year SMC got extremely blessed in big name opponents coming to Moraga because of skillful and some lucky negotiating the year before that.
Seton Hall and Drake were return games because the year before SMC started on the road and waited until other teams were desparate. Oregon was a special favor by Ernie Kent to SMC, we also return to Oregon this year and return next season as well. The second return though is a guaranty game approaching six figures. Kent State - was a bracket buster because we have good connections with ESPN and have hosted now 3 years in a row as a way to get at least one more home game with a great competition. We also have to return this year on the Kent State game, but are also hosting again a bracketbuster, which should be a great game given are expected performance level.

Someone else mentioned continuity of staff, well, SMC lost Daniel Shell to IMG via Stanford. Shell did the scheduling and his hard work and negotiating showed in the scheduling. Shell is gone and now we are suffering a bit in getting more home games. Although, something suggests to me that Shell's relationships had a hand in getting 5 neutral games - two Wooden games and the espn www.anaheimclassic.com for 3 games against 6 BCS potential opponents is huge for a true mid-major team like SMC.

Bottom line scheduling is an art and some times people don't like the product. So getting Stanford to Spokane on a return was huge and you should truly appreciate the business negotiated by the GU staff.

roxdoc
09-19-2008, 08:02 PM
Having read the comments above. There is something to be said for trying to get home and homes with solid mid-majors. However, I really don't think this should be done at the expense of the high profile/high financial return we enjoy now.

Complaints by some season ticket holders who want program sacrifices to be made just so that they can raise their advantage to an even higher level don't cut it with me. If they don't like it there are quite a few people around that would be very happy to "donate" $5000 to fill their seat. Bless their hearts, they were smart enough, forward thinking enough, rich enough, etc etc etc to have placed themselves in the cat bird's seat for a number of years. But to whine now about the quality of games they exclusively get to see sounds like the rantings of a spoiled child.

JMHO

MJGoGaels
09-20-2008, 11:11 AM
Maybe we should do a WCC/WAC challenge every year or with another conference.

Agreed. but how about either the A-10 or MVC or MWC?

HOOTER
09-20-2008, 12:37 PM
Complaints by some season ticket holders who want program sacrifices to be made just so that they can raise their advantage to an even higher level don't cut it with me. If they don't like it there are quite a few people around that would be very happy to "donate" $5000 to fill their seat. Bless their hearts, they were smart enough, forward thinking enough, rich enough, etc etc etc to have placed themselves in the cat bird's seat for a number of years. But to whine now about the quality of games they exclusively get to see sounds like the rantings of a spoiled child.


Ouch! :clap:

I'd love season tickets. I would never get tired of watching the Zags whoop up on sub-par competition, not to mention all of those great conference match-ups. Besides, if the Zags were to play the teams they play in the arena or in the BIS in K2 instead that would take away some great opportunities for people like me to see games in person. The small size of McCarthy is something to consider in this whole equation as well, not that I want to go there again.

Nevtelen
09-20-2008, 12:59 PM
Agreed. but how about either the A-10 or MVC or MWC?

Travel might be an issue in playing the A-10 any given year (though I do generally like the fit otherwise), but I think an MVC or an MWC game would also be a nice addition to the non-conf slate for any WCC team. It would help solid programs like us, St Mary's, and USD get reasonably good games, as well as make sure the cellar-dwellers at least have some decent RPI games on their slate. With the WCC being up and in the spotlight in a pretty big way this year, now would be the time to strike in terms of negotiating something with another conference.

Edit: Just a random thought, but since the WCC is generally good in a few sports, maybe some leverage could be applied if it was a cross-sport deal with soccer or volleyball thrown into the mix, too.

229SintoZag
09-20-2008, 03:55 PM
I am going to put my money where my mouth is.

I refuse to show up for Texas Southern. I just cannot pretend that this is a legitimate game for us, and I won't be associated with the insult by lending my personal presence to the fiction that this is anything other than a total embarrassment and scheduling capitulation.

Who wants to go (and warning to the wise--you have to sit next to El Voce?)

This is not worth my time so all of you who are complaining that I am a spoiled whiner, let me know and the tickets are yours. I will not even charge you for them (in good conscience, how could I? I could be prosecuted for larceny).

Great opportunity to see the Zags ruthlessly abuse a team that will have no business being on the same court, just before WCC conference play. This will doubtless be a great opportunity to see our walk-ons get some minutes. My guess is there may even be a free Wendy's burger or three by game's end as a bonus.

Have at it folks. Tickets go to the person who pms me with the best explanation for why watching Gonzaga abuse Texas Southern is not a bigger waste of time, and only slightly less fun, than watching paint dry while getting a root canal.

wiszag
09-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Prosecuted for larceny, now THAT'S funny. Have at it Sinto!

MickMick
09-20-2008, 05:20 PM
I need some further education. I have a few questions as well as some verification of a few points I have read here.

1) What do students pay for tickets? What number of tickets are reserved for students? What percentage of the total seating is reserved for students? If those students payed the same amount as season ticket holders, what would the revenue be?

2) Is the $5000 donation "segregated"? In other words, is the money intended to be a donation by boosters to help pay for a new gym as opposed to a means to pay BCS level teams to come to K2?

3) What kind of revenue does BIS bring in? Is it enough to regularly lure in top teams? How much money is raised for a good cause (Ronald McDonald House) in the Spokane arena? On a side note, thank you Memphis for helping the good cause as well.

I'm sure the specifics are not matters that GU would like to make public. But I'm also sure that it is a little more complex than people might imagine.

ZagNut08
09-20-2008, 09:25 PM
I am going to put my money where my mouth is.

I refuse to show up for Texas Southern. I just cannot pretend that this is a legitimate game for us, and I won't be associated with the insult by lending my personal presence to the fiction that this is anything other than a total embarrassment and scheduling capitulation.

Who wants to go (and warning to the wise--you have to sit next to El Voce?)

This is not worth my time so all of you who are complaining that I am a spoiled whiner, let me know and the tickets are yours. I will not even charge you for them (in good conscience, how could I? I could be prosecuted for larceny).

Great opportunity to see the Zags ruthlessly abuse a team that will have no business being on the same court, just before WCC conference play. This will doubtless be a great opportunity to see our walk-ons get some minutes. My guess is there may even be a free Wendy's burger or three by game's end as a bonus.

Have at it folks. Tickets go to the person who pms me with the best explanation for why watching Gonzaga abuse Texas Southern is not a bigger waste of time, and only slightly less fun, than watching paint dry while getting a root canal.


You may want to re-consider as this game will likely be senior night. But, if you want to pass on a chance to say thank you and goodbye to pargo, josh, micah, ira, and sorenson...then feel free to to not waste your time thanking them for all their effort. It's a shame we can't bring in a top notch team to watch ira and andrew sit on the bench for the whole game instead of letting them get out there and play some serious minutes in front of the home crowd

Bing
09-20-2008, 09:30 PM
I am going to put my money where my mouth is.

I refuse to show up for Texas Southern. I just cannot pretend that this is a legitimate game for us, and I won't be associated with the insult by lending my personal presence to the fiction that this is anything other than a total embarrassment and scheduling capitulation.

Who wants to go (and warning to the wise--you have to sit next to El Voce?)

This is not worth my time so all of you who are complaining that I am a spoiled whiner, let me know and the tickets are yours. I will not even charge you for them (in good conscience, how could I? I could be prosecuted for larceny).

Great opportunity to see the Zags ruthlessly abuse a team that will have no business being on the same court, just before WCC conference play. This will doubtless be a great opportunity to see our walk-ons get some minutes. My guess is there may even be a free Wendy's burger or three by game's end as a bonus.

Have at it folks. Tickets go to the person who pms me with the best explanation for why watching Gonzaga abuse Texas Southern is not a bigger waste of time, and only slightly less fun, than watching paint dry while getting a root canal.

I'm curious as to why you haven't posted what Mike Roth has said to you about home scheduling in the Kennel.

Surely you've had an ongoing dialogue with him. Why not share his responses to your continued questions? And I hope you've had these dialogues and asked him your questions. You know -- actually doing something about your concerns.

229SintoZag
09-21-2008, 10:02 AM
I would never post my private communications with anyone on a public message board, be they with Mike Roth or anyone else, without securing their permission. If Mike Roth wants to chip in I am sure he is aware of this board and I have no doubt his computer has a web browser.

Good point about senior night--for some reason, I was under the impression that USC Upstate was senior night. Regardless, I always try to make senior night, even if we were playing an exhibition against Gonzaga Prep. So the above post applies to whichever of the two is not senior night.

Nevtelen
09-21-2008, 11:11 AM
I would never post my private communications with anyone on a public message board, be they with Mike Roth or anyone else, without securing their permission. If Mike Roth wants to chip in I am sure he is aware of this board and I have no doubt his computer has a web browser.

Good point about senior night--for some reason, I was under the impression that USC Upstate was senior night. Regardless, I always try to make senior night, even if we were playing an exhibition against Gonzaga Prep. So the above post applies to whichever of the two is not senior night.

I'm pretty sure USC Upstate is senior night and Texas Southern is in December. Besides just looking at the schedule, it makes sense - an independant is more likely to play us in the conference season when it's harder for them to get games vs Texas S who will be more worried about their league race (theoreticaly).

ZagNut08
09-21-2008, 11:24 AM
My mistake, sinto, I thought I read warmup for wcc tourney...but you said wcc play. guess it won't be senior night, in which case, feel free to unload your tickets, I was just trying to make sure you didn't give em away without realizing which game it was