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View Full Version : OT: Josh Childress bolts from NBA



BobZag
07-22-2008, 05:13 PM
to pro ball in Greece.

More $$$$.

Is there a possible trend in the future?

Akzag
07-22-2008, 05:26 PM
It wouldn't surprise me ... look at what is happening to the NHL. Or even Beckham in futbol.

But until they can lure away a couple all-stars, perhaps bring home their Euro stars, the NBA still has the allure.

krozman
07-22-2008, 06:06 PM
Saying the NBA has allure is even saying a lot.

thespywhozaggedme
07-22-2008, 06:56 PM
It wouldn't surprise me ... look at what is happening to the NHL. Or even Beckham in futbol.

But until they can lure away a couple all-stars, perhaps bring home their Euro stars, the NBA still has the allure.

The difference is Beckham is a washed up has been (playing ability wise) where as JC is 25 years old in the prime of his career. The owners of the Russian and Greek Euroleague teams have more money then Bill Gates, well not really, but not too far off. The Euro is worth 1 1/2 x's more then the greenback, it very well may be a trend. Rumor is CSKA Moscow will over LeBron 50million/year in '10, when he becomes a UFA. I'll see it when I believe it though.

Nevtelen
07-22-2008, 09:07 PM
It seems like every American player in Europe whose story I've heard has at least one "they still owe me a lot of money" story. Until the European bball clubs as a whole (I'm sure there are some that are honest and upfront) stop the financial BS, I doubt there will be a serious talent drain from the NBA.

theothegreat21
07-22-2008, 09:45 PM
It seems like every American player in Europe whose story I've heard has at least one "they still owe me a lot of money" story. Until the European bball clubs as a whole (I'm sure there are some that are honest and upfront) stop the financial BS, I doubt there will be a serious talent drain from the NBA.

This is true with many of the smaller clubs and certain countries....but Olympiacos or the other big clubs that have the ability to lure over the NBA players will pay their athletes on time. I am a huge Josh Childress fan, and I really cant blame him for doing this. He has his housing and cars payed for, and will get taxed much less then he would in this country. Great decision by Josh, and I wouldnt be surprised if we saw more of this

ZagNut08
07-22-2008, 10:38 PM
the salaries they quote the payers are after taxes. So 9 Mil euros is equal to around 20 mil in the US

deathchina
07-22-2008, 10:40 PM
This is by no means a done deal.

zaguarxj
07-23-2008, 08:48 AM
It would be cool if the European pro leagues get good enough that a basketball version of soccer's "champion's league" tournament can be established. This is a tournament where the top 2-3 teams from the top European soccer leagues play a tournament at the same time they are playing regular league games.

thespywhozaggedme
07-23-2008, 08:48 AM
It seems like every American player in Europe whose story I've heard has at least one "they still owe me a lot of money" story. Until the European bball clubs as a whole (I'm sure there are some that are honest and upfront) stop the financial BS, I doubt there will be a serious talent drain from the NBA.

What do you mean by that? Seriously? It's in no way, shape or from illegal to pay the taxes of a player or have it built into their contract. If someone is willing to pay you millions more to do what you love and live in an amazing country like Greece, why wouldn't you? Athens or Atlanta? You make the call.

Qhall43
07-23-2008, 08:52 AM
It is now...


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3501488

Once and Future Zag
07-23-2008, 09:07 AM
What do you mean by that? Seriously? It's in no way, shape or from illegal to pay the taxes of a player or have it built into their contract. If someone is willing to pay you millions more to do what you love and live in an amazing country like Greece, why wouldn't you? Athens or Atlanta? You make the call.

I think he means that the Euro clubs stiff the players on the money the clubs owe them.

I've seen that a lot

From a previous thread (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showpost.php?p=106956&postcount=1) regarding Matt Santnagelo


However, he did want to talk about the state of basketball in Europe. And he said it is almost universally bad. he said he played in six (or seven) different countries for that many different teams and generally none of them paid him what they promised.

He said he did not think his case was unique. In fact, he said it is terrible in general. His first contract (Spain) was for three years but only lasted until his first paycheck was due, which is to say about a month. He did not get it and moved on.

There were bonuses for signing, but it was the agreed upon salaries that just don't show up as promised.

He said every single team he played for still owes him money.

thespywhozaggedme
07-23-2008, 09:24 AM
I think he means that the Euro clubs stiff the players on the money the clubs owe them.

I've seen that a lot

From a previous thread (http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showpost.php?p=106956&postcount=1) regarding Matt Santnagelo

How did you get that out of what he said? I know a lot about international bb. We are talking about Olympiakos, one of, if not the most prestigious and financially stable teams in all of Europe. They play in the domestic Greek league but also participate in Euroleague, the 2nd best league in the world. Euroleague now consists of 16 "franchises" that have to abide by a proscribed standard of rules, i.e 10k minimum seating capacity, tv deals, merchandise, etc. Unfortunately the team Matt was with was equivalent to an old CBA team, thus much less stability. I'm as pro American as anyone but we can be myopic at times and think that the sporting universe revolves around the USA. The owners of the Greek and Russian Euroleague teams are as wealthy as Mark Cuban. The Euro is worth much more than the US Dollar and these teams are paying players millions more then what the NBA is willing to pay them; plus free car, free housing and taxes paid. Why wouldn't a player do this?

Ezag
07-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Well Put

thespywhozaggedme
07-23-2008, 09:46 AM
This is Euroleague:

http://www.euroleague.net/

This is where the Euroleague wil be holding it's championships next season:

http://www.o2world.com/index.php?id=91

Matt never set foot in an arena like this while playing in Europe.

Keep in mind that Matt's situation, while rare does happen. That's why it's so important, like anything in life to do ones due diligence. Josh Childress and his agents weren't going to invest their time and energy on a team that may not pay it's players. With all due respect to MS, his situation wasn't even close to that of Childress.

What's going on now is very interesting and worth studying. We now have more then 1 example of 1st round players from Europe, who were drafted by their respective NBA teams(1st round, guaranteed contract, mind you) and rebuffed them to stay in Europe for much, much more money; Fran Vasquez and Tiago Splitter. We now have decent European players that have had success in the NBA going back to Europe in the prime of their career for much, much more money; Bostjan Nachbar, JC Navvaro and Nenad Kristic. Next year will be the big case study; Ricky Rubio, the second coming of Pete Maravich, a 17 year old freak who is already on the Spanish national team, is projected to go #1 or 2 in the draft. If a Euroleague team offers him more money to stay over there, then sound the alarm, all bets are off. The next few years will be quite interesting to observe.

IrishZag
07-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Bob,

I definitely think this is going to become a trend. With salary caps, luxury tax, and a weakening dollar the NBA is going to find itself competing for mid level NBA talent. It will not be a sudden shift with significant superstars leaving to play in Europe, but we will see a lot more restricted free agents and other players with salary limits moving to Europe.

What will be more common are European and other international players going back to Europe or simply not coming over because they are getting paid far better to play a more prominent role. Why would Navarro, Delfino, or Nachbar take less money to be the 8th - 12th man on a mediocre NBA franchise, when they could be a star of a European team competing for championships and making significantly more money. On top of that I would much rather live in Barcelona or Athens vs. Milwaukee or Oklahoma City.

Thiaggo Splitter from Brazil is another example, because of his draft position San Antonio were not able to pay him anywhere near the amount of money he was making at Barcelona, so Splitter is staying in Europe and San Antonio is handcuffed by the whole situation.

Unlike many of the teams that Richie, Matt and others played on, top level European sporting clubs like Olympiakos, CSKA Moscow, Real Madrid, S.C. Barcelona, etc. can and will pay for high level talent.

BobZag
07-23-2008, 10:00 AM
Matt finished up playing for Benetton Treviso.

IrishZag
07-23-2008, 10:19 AM
This is Euroleague:


What's going on now is very interesting and worth studying. We now have more then 1 example of 1st round players from Europe, who were drafted by their respective NBA teams(1st round, guaranteed contract, mind you) and rebuffed them to stay in Europe for much, much more money; Fran Vasquez and Tiago Splitter. We now have decent European players that have had success in the NBA going back to Europe in the prime of their career for much, much more money; Bostjan Nachbar, JC Navvaro and Nenad Kristic. Next year will be the big case study; Ricky Romero, the second coming of Pete Maravich, a 17 year old freak who is already on the Spanish national team, is projected to go #1 or 2 in the draft. If a Euroleague team offers him more money to stay over there, then sound the alarm, all bets are off. The next few years will be quite interesting to observe.


You mean Ricky Rubio, check out his highlights. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KqLGzkhRHN8

He has been playing full bore professional basketball in Spain since he was 15, and at 17 is playing on the Spanish National team in the Olympics. He is a 6'4" point guard. Think Manu Ginobili with a better handle, or a skinny version of Deron Williams. Gets to the hole off pick and rolls and knows how to pass.

thespywhozaggedme
07-23-2008, 10:25 AM
You mean Ricky Rubio, check out his highlights. http://youtube.com/watch?v=KqLGzkhRHN8

He has been playing full bore professional basketball in Spain since he was 15, and at 17 is playing on the Spanish National team in the Olympics. He is a 6'4" point guard. Think Manu Ginobili with a better handle, or a skinny version of Deron Williams. Gets to the hole off pick and rolls and knows how to pass.


yea, Rubio. Ricky Romero is an awful AAA pitcher for the Blue Jays. Doh!:o

Nevtelen
07-23-2008, 12:26 PM
What do you mean by that? Seriously? It's in no way, shape or from illegal to pay the taxes of a player or have it built into their contract. If someone is willing to pay you millions more to do what you love and live in an amazing country like Greece, why wouldn't you? Athens or Atlanta? You make the call.


What I meant was that, yes, I'm sure there are teams that are every bit as honest and scrupulous about money as any major organization anywhere. But, as Santagelo's story, recent warnings directed towards Brandon Jennings and other stories I've heard/read indicate, every team isn't Olympiakos or CSKA Moscow. Yes, indiviual players may certainly decide (and clearly have decided) that European teams are more beneficial to their goals, fun to play on, or whatever. But the conversation was about a major trend in the future. A major trend indicates more than a few teams. I would say that until either the Euroleague expands or more teams get their act together, no significant trend of NBA players to Europe will happen. Please read what I wrote before overreacting.

DrDrivel
07-23-2008, 12:31 PM
Greece is modernizing, but most of it exists in essentially third-world conditions. Just sayin'...

asoc
07-23-2008, 01:42 PM
The difference is Beckham is a washed up has been (playing ability wise) where as JC is 25 years old in the prime of his career. The owners of the Russian and Greek Euroleague teams have more money then Bill Gates, well not really, but not too far off. The Euro is worth 1 1/2 x's more then the greenback, it very well may be a trend. Rumor is CSKA Moscow will over LeBron 50million/year in '10, when he becomes a UFA. I'll see it when I believe it though.

I hate to break it to you, Beckham can still start and play in any league he wants.

He is still one of the best in the world at the skills he is known for. His free kicks and passing are nothing short of amazing. He never had pace to begin with. He plays hard and does whatever he can for his team to succeed.

The concept that he is some washed up has been is put forward by people who have an axe to grind or simply don't know better.

The NBA should feel threatened by European leagues. It is something that will take time to develop, but watch out when it finally does. If European teams and organizations can prove to the young talent in the US that they can develop players for a professional career just as well as colleges can, watch out. With the age limits in the NBA, I wouldn't be surprised to see players skip the one year of college and go abroad for a couple years then head back to the NBA. At least they would get paid. This is also a threat to College basketball. I am happy I went to college and I am happy with what I got out of college, but I also know college isn't for everyone.