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FuManShoes
03-09-2007, 09:36 AM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/sullivan/20070309-9999-1s9sullivan.html

“It's challenging to attract great athletes who have great grades because the market is small,” Holland said. “And we're not the only really good university that plays college basketball.

“Whoever takes over this program has a tough task of getting the kind of athlete with the requirements here to win a conference championship. That's very difficult to do. . . . I will tell you this: It's not apples-to-apples for every school in our league and who they can get in.”

thickman1
03-09-2007, 09:38 AM
sour grapes...boo hoo.

former1dog
03-09-2007, 09:40 AM
Somebody, please quickly look up the number of members of the all academic team that are on USD's team vs our own.

Then, send that info to Blanchette or someone so they can write a scathing editorial.

This crap is getting real old.

TexasZagFan
03-09-2007, 09:40 AM
sour grapes...boo hoo.

If you can't recruit a kid to a campus in San Diego, then you can't recruit.

thickman1
03-09-2007, 09:41 AM
If you can't recruit a kid to a campus in San Diego, then you can't recruit.

Exactly.

IrishBulldog
03-09-2007, 09:49 AM
The "admissions card" is a cop-out and a veiled cheap shot at GU. Tons of unsuccessful coaches make the same argument to justify their inability to recruit. It's disingenuous and insulting to the Univeristy and its admissions department.

If Holland really wants to claim that USD's admissions standards handcuffed him, then he needs to identify specific kids who he tried to recruit but couldn't due to academics. My guess is that he can't and, therefore, won't.

BaltoforNew
03-09-2007, 09:55 AM
The "admissions card" is a cop-out and a veiled cheap shot at GU. Tons of unsuccessful coaches make the same argument to justify their inability to recruit. It's disingenuous and insulting to the Univeristy and its admissions department.

If Holland really wants to claim that USD's admissions standards handcuffed him, then he needs to identify specific kids who he tried to recruit but couldn't due to academics. My guess is that he can't and, therefore, won't.

First, Holland is no longer the coach, so I don't think he is the one blaming the standards.

Second, if it is true that he graduated all but one player during 13 years, maybe there is a cutoff higher than most schools, including most in the WCC.

zagfiend
03-09-2007, 09:57 AM
What annoys me about these articles that they imply (without mentioning names) that some school cough Gonzaga cough has basketball success because it lowered admission standards. And yet no journalist talks to the admissions department about the standards and whether they have been lowered or raised since the basketball supremacy run began.

Because they are so vague and don't mention a school, the journalist doesn't need to do any research and can just tar and feather the school all through implication and rumor.

If this is such a big issue for the conference, I would love to see an article which contacts the schools' admissions offices and even looked at other schools that deal with specific admission requirements and yet manage to field successful teams (e.g., Air Force, Stanford).

kyle dixon
03-09-2007, 09:57 AM
Jason Keep sure was the staple of "Academic Excellence".

CDC84
03-09-2007, 10:03 AM
Part of the problem with schools playing the academic card is that they can't prove anything. Gonzaga is a private university. They can't pinpoint a specific player and say..."we couldn't take this guy." They can only speculate.

GoZags
03-09-2007, 10:06 AM
Some of this has been "borrowed" from another board.
------------------
Academic Progress Rate (APR) is the new measuring stick in the NCAA. Fall below a 925 APR, and a school is subject to a reduction in scholarships for the sport. A 925 APR equates roughly to a 50% graduation rate.

According to the latest NCAA statistics, the combined APR's for 03-04 and 04-05 (the only periods available, so far) for men's basketball in the WCC are as follows:

LMU 990 90th to 100th percentile among all D-1 Men's BB teams
GU 980 80th to 90th
UP 973 80th to 90th
SCU 962 70th to 80th
USD 959 70th to 80th
PEPP 931 50th to 60th
SMC 915 30th to 40th
USF 880 10th to 20th

http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/school_apr_data.html

PeninsulaDog
03-09-2007, 10:39 AM
The general admissions standards for Gonzaga and San Diego would appear to be essentially identical, based upon new student profiles:

Average SAT score for incoming Gonzaga student: 1190
Average SAT score for incoming San Diego student: 1174

Average GPA for incoming Gonzaga student: 3.72
Average GPA for incoming San Diego student: 3.74

(Information from Gonzaga and San Diego's websites.)

I'm certain that the admissions standards for athletes at both San Diego and Gonzaga are more malleable than those applied to the general pool of applicants, but how much more malleable (if at all) at Gonzaga? The fact is, there are really only two NCAA Div. 1 programs that have the luxury of maintaining high academic admissions standards, and can remain competitive, year in and year out: Duke and Stanford. Everyone else must make the choice to either adjust admissions standards for athletes, or forego competitiveness. It's that simple. If Santa Clara and San Diego want to continue to play the sanctimonious victim, and aspire to become something they can simply never be (Stanford or Duke), that's fine. But I really think they're kidding themselves.

The WCC is a very insular little community, and coaches (past and present) talk. I've mentioned before that Santa Clara people have been spreading the rumors about GU's admissions process for years, and those rumors evidently made it to San Diego. Sadly, the Santa Clara people's paranoia has been encouraged by "information" furnished by an individual formerly associated with GU.

I would have hoped for better from Holland in light of the kind words Few spoke about him recently.

sittingon50
03-09-2007, 11:53 AM
I posted this on one of the boards a few weeks back when SCU said the same thing. GU joined the league in '79-80. Since then they've had 13 Academic All-Americans, USD has had 2. Since '94 (when GU became a MEAT MARKET!) GU has had 4 (including Jeff Brown, National Academic POY), USD has had 1.
Since '90-'91 (which is as far back as the league Media Guide lists them) GU has had 38 All-League Academic performers, USD 19.

All-League & All-Academic in the same season: GU11, USD 2.
POY & All-Academic in the same season: GU 5, USD 0.

The WCC presents a Male Scholar Athlete of the Year. It has been awarded to a basketball player 17 times in the 27 years it has been in existence. GU has won it 7x's, USD 2. Since '94 GU 3, USD 1.

It's true with every school in the league. GU dwarfs them in academic performers across the board & across time.
A Bronco fan decided to play the race card & say something about Pargo. Fact is, GU has won 12 NCAA Tourney games & JP was involved in 2 to the tune of 16 MPG.
Anyone else decides to call GU on their Academics, I would be glad to educate them if they are unable to get through to the Athletic Dept.

former1dog
03-09-2007, 11:56 AM
Thanks for all the great facts. Often times facts don't get in the way of a good story, though, do they.

I would really like it if some journalist of repute would pick up on this and write an OP ED. We need to nip this one in the bud!:argh:

Blanchette, Bergrum ... You guys reading this? Anyone?

wavesfan
03-09-2007, 11:57 AM
I would have hoped for better from Holland in light of the kind words Few spoke about him recently.


Wow, talk about twisiting meanings??? It sounds to me like you are saying that Holland is taking a personal shot at Few.

Look, you guys can compare SAT scores, GPA's, APR's and All-Academic teams all you want. The problem is:

1) SAT and GPA are averages for the general incoming class. The schools have to set their own internal standards for what are acceptable admissions requirements for student-athletes. The same can probably be said for other areas of specialty like music or drama. A great piano player might be able to get in and even get a scholarship even tho they don't meet the average GPA or SAT scores.

2) APR and All-Academic teams measure performance during the period in which the student is enrolled and not for admission. The standards for admission can be higher at one school or another but once they get to the school they may not necessarily excel above the average student. I'm sure we've all heard stories about the brainiac kid from high school who went to college, got caught up in the college life and had average grades. As an example, does Stanford dominate the Pac-10 All-Academic teams? If they are the highest standard than they should.

In any case, I think this comparison of the schools is futile. It could very well be that USD does hold their admissions for athletes to a higher standard than Gonzaga. But to circle around to my original point, you shouldn't attack Holland for saying it just because Few said some nice things about him.

ereiz03
03-09-2007, 11:57 AM
Not that I completely agree with Holland, but USD is definitely a tougher school academically than most schools in the WCC.

alert2
03-09-2007, 12:14 PM
In any case, I think this comparison of the schools is futile. It could very well be that USD does hold their admissions for athletes to a higher standard than Gonzaga. But to circle around to my original point, you shouldn't attack Holland for saying it just because Few said some nice things about him.

I think that hits the mark.

USF
03-09-2007, 12:25 PM
As most of us know, you can usually find SOME statistic to bolster your points. I think the "dispute" and insinuations being made by USD and SCU about GU relate to the standards for admission of basketball players. Using the incoming stats of regular students has nothing to do with it.

They will use examples like Pargo (an academic question mark coming out of HS) and Theo Davis, who went to a prep school in Philadelphia that had a student body made up exclusivley of basketball players. (In the spirit of full disclosure, USF also recruited Pargo after some of the bigger schools dropped off.) There was some discussion of Theo Davis having problems with Canadian classes he took. But the point is, they will use those examples to argue that maybe GU has "lowered" its standards.

I think GU is becoming a victim of its own reputation. A reputation of bringing in kids that were mostly from the Northwest who were not highly ranked. Now people see you going after kids that UCLA wants and they assume you are selling out. In my view, the Heytvelt/Davis arrest has been quite damaging. It has given some of the haters an excuse to pile on and to bring up stuff like graduation rates and academic standards.

Also, the graduation rate of GU has suffered (like other WCC schools) because kids have left the program or transferred. I remember a couple of years ago when several players transferred. When that happens, it counts as a kid who did not graduate. Even though he may have been a decent student.

Bottom line is that you can go back and forth statistically all day.

And USD is an excellent school with a great reputation. Holland had a stellar record on graduating his players. And what does he get? Fired. I think it's sad.

brasszag
03-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Holland had a stellar record on graduating his players. And what does he get? Fired. I think it's sad.

Agreed and agreed.

SD always played very tough-minded ball.

It's also sad he places part of the blame outside his own school for being fired. Blaming other schools for your own recruiting challenges is sour grapes - no matter the source or the target.

Taking cheap, and unverifiable shots, at GU is weak. Until someone presents ALL the data it's just hearsay, rumor, and disgraceful for both institutions.

adoptedzag
03-09-2007, 12:46 PM
And USD is an excellent school with a great reputation. Holland had a stellar record on graduating his players. And what does he get? Fired. I think it's sad.

I completely agree.

FuManShoes
03-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Coaching at the D-I level isn't just about X's and O's and character. It's about winning battles -- on the court and on the recruiting trail. Apparently Holland's efforts weren't up to snuff in either arena. If you want to compete with the Monster, then go after kids with great hoops skills and at least a monicum of academic potential and set up support systems to let them succeed. It's unrealistic to demand student athletes have the same academic prowess as other kids coming out of high school when the whole reason you're offering schollies is because you believe that athlete can bring money and prestige to the school.

wavesfan
03-09-2007, 01:03 PM
It's also sad he places part of the blame outside his own school for being fired. Blaming other schools for your own recruiting challenges is sour grapes - no matter the source or the target.

Taking cheap, and unverifiable shots, at GU is weak.

Did I miss something? Where does he say that it is GU's fault?

former1dog
03-09-2007, 01:09 PM
Did I miss something? Where does he say that it is GU's fault?


"I will tell you this: It's not apples-to-apples for every school in our league and who they can get in.”

Lets not be naive in what Holland is really saying here.

a13coach
03-09-2007, 01:30 PM
F1D,

Beat me to the pop. Exactly my thoughts. That quote by BH and the writers context makes it very clear Holland was taking a parting bitter shot at GU. I am not happy about DD leaving, but I am very pleased that the whinning BH is gone. Most of his whinning had something to do w/GU, whether it was ref's, having to go to Spokane, or GU players getting honors he felt his players deserved. It seemed to me that he was disgusted that the other non-GU coaches did not see things the way he did. The USD players deserve a better coach than BH.

brasszag
03-09-2007, 01:35 PM
Did I miss something? Where does he say that it is GU's fault?

Well, reading between the lines, I'm pretty sure he thinks he was threatened by all the Academic All-WCC basketball players at Pepperdine he was losing out on to improve his program this year.

Or is that too much of a cheap-shot for the genteel GUBoards crowd...

Symi81
03-09-2007, 01:45 PM
From the article: "Articulating those goals, however, is a lot easier than attaining them. USD's academic requirements are not as elastic as those of some of its conference rivals (see Gonzaga), and its cosmopolitan campus lacks the captive-audience advantages of towns with fewer entertainment alternatives (don't see Gonzaga)."

Amusing article. I found the above quote especially laughable. This article makes it sound as if GU is some kind of third-tier school, when in fact its the no.2 rated school on the West Coast (behind Santa Clara) for universities without doctoral programs. Additionally, Gonzaga's proximity to downtown Spokane offers more entertainment alternatives than USD's hill-top location near the intersection of I-5 and I-8.

If USD really had such strict standards for their athletes vs GU and the rest of the WCC, one would assume that they would have more athletic-academic awards....

brasszag
03-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Additionally, Gonzaga's proximity to downtown Spokane offers more entertainment alternatives than USD's hill-top location near the intersection of I-5 and I-8.


I tell you, more good concert tours came through Spokane that I wanted to see, rather than my current cultural ghetto of Sacramento.

zagster318
03-09-2007, 02:35 PM
The general admissions standards for Gonzaga and San Diego would appear to be essentially identical, based upon new student profiles:

Average SAT score for incoming Gonzaga student: 1190
Average SAT score for incoming San Diego student: 1174

Average GPA for incoming Gonzaga student: 3.72
Average GPA for incoming San Diego student: 3.74

(Information from Gonzaga and San Diego's websites.)

I'm certain that the admissions standards for athletes at both San Diego and Gonzaga are more malleable than those applied to the general pool of applicants, but how much more malleable (if at all) at Gonzaga? The fact is, there are really only two NCAA Div. 1 programs that have the luxury of maintaining high academic admissions standards, and can remain competitive, year in and year out: Duke and Stanford. Everyone else must make the choice to either adjust admissions standards for athletes, or forego competitiveness. It's that simple. If Santa Clara and San Diego want to continue to play the sanctimonious victim, and aspire to become something they can simply never be (Stanford or Duke), that's fine. But I really think they're kidding themselves.

The WCC is a very insular little community, and coaches (past and present) talk. I've mentioned before that Santa Clara people have been spreading the rumors about GU's admissions process for years, and those rumors evidently made it to San Diego. Sadly, the Santa Clara people's paranoia has been encouraged by "information" furnished by an individual formerly associated with GU.

I would have hoped for better from Holland in light of the kind words Few spoke about him recently.

Duke doesn't have high admission standards for athletes. I was reading an SI article a few years back that stated the average Duke student has an SAT of 1440, whereas the average Duke basketball player has an SAT of 970. Seems like quite a drop, IMO.

sonuvazag
03-09-2007, 03:00 PM
From the article: "Articulating those goals, however, is a lot easier than attaining them. USD's academic requirements are not as elastic as those of some of its conference rivals (see Gonzaga), and its cosmopolitan campus lacks the captive-audience advantages of towns with fewer entertainment alternatives (don't see Gonzaga)."



I have to laugh. You could call San Diego a very large marina town or an extension of the O.C., but never a cosmopoliton area...

Let's just say it. USD doesn't have the pull to recruit the players it wants and their lack of pull has nothing to do with their own standards... it's the standards of top-tier recruits who exclude USD that burns BH.

You'll be missed Brad Holland.

tobizag
03-09-2007, 03:13 PM
San Diego Fast Facts:

http://www.sandiego.gov/citizensassistance/facts/fast.shtml

Seems to me that this is a cosmopolitan area. Regardless of the 70 miles of shoreline, the "marina town" has 1.3 million people living in its limits.

But that is all beside the point. I'm glad to see all of our members from the other WCC schools coming out and supporting Holland in this thread. Poor things. :mecry: ;)

:vomit-smiley-007:

Truth is, none of us (I don't think) are Athletic Directors of Admissions Deans at any of the schools in the WCC, so all of this is conjecture and hearsay. Personally, I will not miss Holland. Best of luck to him, but it's time for some new blood.

wavesfan
03-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Well, reading between the lines, I'm pretty sure he thinks he was threatened by all the Academic All-WCC basketball players at Pepperdine he was losing out on to improve his program this year.

Or is that too much of a cheap-shot for the genteel GUBoards crowd...

Cheap shot = lame shot. I'm not sure why you had to go there. I was not asking a rhetorical question.

Anyway, when I read it the first time I actually thought he was referring to the likes of USF, Pepperdine, Portland, etc. We've (meaning Pepperdine) taken in Prop 48 kids (Alex Acker, Doug Christie) before. And, honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing.

As for the non-cosmopolitan remark, I'm afraid that wasn't directed at anyone but Gonzaga. Regardless of the number of concerts or national skating championships that stop in Spokane it isn't cosmopolitan. So I would agree that you have every right to ##### about Holland on that comment, regardless of whether it is true or not.

brasszag
03-09-2007, 03:38 PM
I think he's more likely to be complaining about teams that have more success than SD, than ones that have less.

That means he's complaining about the standards of the schools that pull the better players - SCU and GU (since SD's about on par with USF)

Since it's fashionable these days to imply that GU's sold their soul to have basketball success I don't think it can be reasonably read any other way. He's joining that tired old choir.

tobizag
03-09-2007, 03:43 PM
He's joining that tired old choir.

:agreed:

And they are all singing out of tune with a 98 year old organ accompanist...:lmao:

wavesfan
03-09-2007, 04:02 PM
I think he's more likely to be complaining about teams that have more success than SD, than ones that have less.

That means he's complaining about the standards of the schools that pull the better players - SCU and GU (since SD's about on par with USF)

Since it's fashionable these days to imply that GU's sold their soul to have basketball success I don't think it can be reasonably read any other way. He's joining that tired old choir.

Using words like "likely" and reasoning like "since it's fashionable" you are doing nothing more than putting words in Holland's mouth. The guy has been involved with the WCC for 13 YEARS! During that time there have been PLENTY of good teams in the WCC outside of just the Zags. But because of the egocentricism of some Zag fans, like many in this thread, it must apparently all revolve around Gonzaga. Even though Holland didn't even mention them by name, he must surely be talking only about Gonzaga.

You guys are funny. You are literally looking for reasons to be ticked off at Holland.

ereiz03
03-09-2007, 04:08 PM
Completely agree with ya WavesFan. Some posters on this board are just ridiculous.

brasszag
03-09-2007, 04:39 PM
I've had nothing but respect for Holland as a coach, given how tough his teams have played us for years (until now). The two teams I'm always seriously nervous about playing have been SCU and USD.

There certainly have been some pretty darn good teams in the WCC and I don't think anyone here doesn't recognize that - and Holland's is the only one to win a WCC title aside from GU in a the last few years. So that says a lot about his recruiting and coaching. That means unless the columnist is badly representing Holland firing a parting shot as his administration, what other reasonable interpretation is there about his complaining about recruiting?

He's already getting a better class of player (and maybe student) than over half the schools in this league in my estimation.

It truly pisses me off that other schools fans feel free to fire all sorts of unsupported and factually unsupportable accusations at GU's administration as regards the academic aspect of our basketball admissions, since we've been dominant in a single sport for less than a decade in a just barely top-half-of-the-RPI league.

So yeah - we as GU grads hear this one a lot when it comes to basketball - check out this same sad song that popping up on other WCC boards, when the "fans" of other schools make up nice little stories about why they can't, and don't want to try to, win in the WCC - because clearly GU has an unfair advantage since we only recruit thugs, headcases, and idiots to win basketball games. They can't imagine that there would be excellent and smart basketball players out there that they could recruit, who could maintain their lofty academic prestige, and still play some damn fine ball.

I'm proud of my school for a lot of reasons not related to basketball or sports - but another reason to be proud is that we have worked our way up to being a fairly well known program in basketball, and GU's done it the right way: with true student-athletes who have comported themselves over the years in an overwhelmingly positive manner. No one-and-done's and nobody who couldn't hack it at the university level academically.

Disparaging the achievement that, I'd say, is due to a whole lot of hard work, a little luck, and a lot of capitalizing on that luck, is just not an understanding of the recent history here that coincides with reality.

And then you wonder why we get defensive.

:sigh:

I'm done now - it's Friday. Time to have a beer and play some guitar.

lothar98zag
03-09-2007, 04:41 PM
...like many in this thread, it must apparently all revolve around Gonzaga...

It all revolves around GU? On a GU message board? No way! :lmao:






And fwiw, GU's standards haven't been lowered. Based on some of the players that were on the team when I was @ GU (94-98), I can say that they seem to be the same today as they were 10+ years ago. I wonder why there wasn't any complaining in the 90s by the other WCC members?

brasszag
03-09-2007, 04:45 PM
Well, back then we did have one Jason Bond of the Honors College on the team. Clearly we've vastly lowered standards since then Lothar, since we don't have any Honors basketball players now (that I'm aware of)...

wavesfan
03-09-2007, 04:55 PM
"It all revolves around GU? On a GU message board? No way!"

Taken a little out of context there, don't you think?

The discussion should certainly revolve around Gonzaga on a Gonzaga message board. But I was talking about how some of the posters here think that what Holland said only "revolved around GU"

Keep dumbing down the internet one post at a time :lmao:

Bocco
03-09-2007, 04:58 PM
“There's a monster up in the Pacific Northwest that wins our league every year and that's been hard for all of us to overcome,” Holland said. “Gonzaga winning year-in and year-out – that's just been tough for everybody in our league.”

As long as Mark Few stays at Gonzaga there will be "a monster in the Pacific Northwest." The success at GU has very little to do with "academic standards" and a whole lot to do with Mark Few and a coaching staff that players want to come here and play for.

GoZags
03-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Keep dumbing down the internet one post at a time

Hey wavefan, what other monster in the northwest do you suppose Brad Holland was referring to?

On another note, I am baffled as to why folks around the conference can't seem to understand that our league should BE a 2 bid league. Other WCC schools should be able to win 20+ games and have a decent RPI regardless of what Gonzaga does.

siliconzag
03-09-2007, 05:08 PM
There is academic arrogance, and there is sports arrogance, and just plain arrogance. Ivy Leaguers are guilty of the academic variety, Florida and USC the sports variety, and ahem, Stanford the third.

But really, guys, come on. I remember lording it over some of those Wave fans before, and later wishing I hadn't. What is it that makes us have to make our beloved Alma Mater more than it is? It is a good, even excellent college, certainly not among the elite institutions in this country, either in academics or sports. We have a pretty decent basketball program, but have never made the Final Four, and in fact since 99, we haven't really been close to it.

I think a lot of Gonzaga people are a bit #####ly (sensitive) about this subject and I include myself among them. And when I went to USD's campus, I thought to myself, "...what a dumb ass you were when you were 18 not to apply to this place!" It is a beautiful campus, in a beautiful city, with wonderful architecture, and it feels like a college should. And it doesn't really detract from Gonzaga to say that. It's only drawback is that it is not a Jesuit college, and so I wouldn't have mastered Jesuit logic there.

Then there is Santa Clara, a really lovely campus also, with much nicer weather and a much more cosmopolitan atmosphere than Spokane too. And it evoked some of the same second guessing. The same day I thought that, the Ruff Riders started yelling (as we were beating them), "Spokane sucks, Spokane sucks." And I kind of thought, how dare they, and then I thought, well they are kind of right about that actually. Spokane sucks but Gonzaga doesn't. In fact USD is one of the least wonderful things about San Diego, but Gonzaga is absolutely the most wonderful part of Spokane!

Anyway, I think it is silly to argue about a few SAT points or minor differences in academic standards. There are probably no colleges in this country with competitive D1 programs that don't lower their standards a bit for athletes just to entertain the alumni, students and fans. It isn't if they do it, it is how much they do it. So if you are into situation ethics, I guess you can throw stones. I kind of respect the programs who don't do it at all. The rest of them are all moral relativists. And both USD and Gonzaga are in that category.

Sili

ereiz03
03-09-2007, 05:17 PM
"In fact USD is one of the least wonderful things about San Diego"

Are you kidding me? How would you ever come to that conclusion?

siliconzag
03-09-2007, 05:33 PM
"In fact USD is one of the least wonderful things about San Diego"

Are you kidding me? How would you ever come to that conclusion?

What I meant to say, and perhaps said it badly, was that it doesn't rank as one of the most special sites in SD. Really, SD is so resplendent with beauty, that despite it's architectural charm and its setting, it is surrounded by so much other splendor, that it doesn't stand out in its own mileux.

Now with respect to Gonzaga. I think it is almost faint praise to say that it is the nicest thing in Spokane.

Now getting back to the point. Arrogance is arrogance. And the face of Gonzaga has changed in the past eight years actually. We've become a little bit more like those we used to resent so much. Just my opinion. But I've heard it from a lot of folks who are (were) friendly to us a few years back.

Sili

gonzagulous
03-09-2007, 06:16 PM
I think I just heard Few complaining that he can't get decent recruits to come to lame old Spokane when he has to compete with all these Southern California teams with their beautiful campuses near the beach :rolleyes:

TheZagPhish
03-09-2007, 10:40 PM
I think I just heard Few complaining that he can't get decent recruits to come to lame old Spokane when he has to compete with all these Southern California teams with their beautiful campuses near the beach

:p Ha ha ha! Precisely. Comparing cities using the "Does it suck or is it cosmopolitan" gauge is so bizarre and so subjective that it is laughable.

Does Memphis inspire this sort of smack-chatter regarding their dominance of Conference USA?