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SLOZag
07-15-2008, 05:12 PM
It seems GU is held in high regard for not only its BB program, but also for how it has managed the business of allocating seats to prospective season ticket holders:

"In preparing for this year’s ticket sales, Davidson College athletics department officials consulted with Gonzaga, another small college that experienced national men’s basketball success. Davidson also looked at how other schools handle arena sellouts.

"That resulted in a new point system formula giving priority for seating assignment to certain categories of buyers, such as those who are athletics donors, parents of current students, alums, or college employees.

"Priority will also given to those who opt for a “universal” package, which offers tickets for all Wildcat sports."

http://davidsonnews.net/2008/07/15/wildcats-hoops-tix-get-em-while-you-can/

229SintoZag
07-15-2008, 05:35 PM
But does Davidson have a larger, less intimate, off-campus nearby public arena they can rent to host their very best opponents?

If not, they are no Gonzaga.

GoZags
07-15-2008, 05:51 PM
Yes.

Davidson's close, nearby, off campus arena is called "The Charlotte Bobcats Arena". Last season, Davidson played host to a number of top OOC teams there, including Duke and North Carolina. Somehow those schools preferred to visit Davidson at that facility rather than their on campus arena.

Now I wonder if they have season ticketholders that continually complain about that deal?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=273182166

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=273350150

ZagNative
07-15-2008, 06:36 PM
Tiresome .... really tiresome ... Said it before, and I'll say it so long as Sinto seems oblivious of the fact that he's not the only fan who wants to see a danged Gonzaga game live. Quit yer whining. You are blessed.

229SintoZag
07-15-2008, 09:42 PM
Tiresome .... really tiresome ... Said it before, and I'll say it so long as Sinto seems oblivious of the fact that he's not the only fan who wants to see a danged Gonzaga game live. Quit yer whining. You are blessed.

I have no problem with having games at the arena so other fans can get to see the team. None whatsoever.

I propose we play, say, Northern Colorado or Portland State there.

Not Memphis.

ZagNative
07-15-2008, 09:58 PM
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/ZagNative/Junk/Emoticons/sosad-1.gif

Zag79
07-16-2008, 01:06 AM
I propose we play, say, Northern Colorado or Portland State there.

Not Memphis.


im in full agreement with that. the arena was a good venue for the memphis game two years, it was really rowdy and the crowd did a great job. that being said, it still wasnt K2 and i think that edge would have given us the W instead of a close ot L.

ZaggyStardust
07-16-2008, 08:22 AM
A little off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread - just found this on the AZ boards regarding their season tix. Evidently, their season tix are transferable to children, etc. But many tix holders have sold their tix to someone out of the family without actually transferring ownership (which is not allowed)... So U of A is cracking down by rescinding those illegal tix and reselling them as follows... YIKES!!!!! Guess ours are a GREAT deal afterall!


All season tickets require a donation. (Like for the new Lute Olson practice facility.)

Upper levels: 5K plus tickets
Mid Level: 25K plus tickets
Lower Level: 250K pus tickets

scrabble08
07-16-2008, 09:26 AM
I have no problem with having games at the arena so other fans can get to see the team. None whatsoever.

I propose we play, say, Northern Colorado or Portland State there.

Not Memphis.



Memphis, WILL NOT..WILL NOT...WILL NOT...

PLAY US IN K2..nobody will, get over it.

229SintoZag
07-17-2008, 03:50 PM
Memphis, WILL NOT..WILL NOT...WILL NOT...

PLAY US IN K2..nobody will, get over it.

Why would they not play us in K2?

They are in the same position we are--elite team in a weak conference.


They need us as badly as we need them.

They are not a BCS school. They play in a seriously depleted C-USA.

We are one of their top games all year long.

They would be nuts not to play us. And if it was a deal breaker--I say we drop them. We got other games against good teams in OOC. (Granted, they are all on the road).

By the way--we got Virginia from the ACC, as well as three different pac 10 teams to play us in K2. Are those schools "nobody?" Methinks not.

cjm720
07-18-2008, 07:03 AM
Could it be that our University would rather prefer to play in the Arena to make more $$$$????

BroncoZAG615
07-18-2008, 07:47 AM
Could it be that our University would rather prefer to play in the Arena to make more $$$$????


Ding Ding Ding. Economics runs the world!

Why do they tear down Yankee Stadium and not renovate it. Money.

Why would GU play Memphis at the Spokie Arena and not K2. Money.

I can't stand the crying about us not playing good teams in K2. How many really good out of conference teams play Duke at Cameron? They play good teams b/c they are in a good conference.

I love K2 and I love the Spokie Arena. The games I've been to at the Arena have been awesome and they are still in Spokane. I don't see a reason to complain.

roxdoc
07-18-2008, 08:43 AM
To make the Arena really work, GU needs to schedule a pretty credible opponent. Play Portland State there and it might be half full and then you get into the situation that the Cougs faced in their little tournament.

My view is we should do one or even two games there every year with a strong opponent. The season ticket holders get their money's worth with their cozy little monopoly at K2. Need to spread the "Bulldog Joy" around a bit.

Shanachie
07-18-2008, 09:22 AM
Could it be that our University would rather prefer to play in the Arena to make more $$$$????

Not following the logic here. Even with more seats in the Arena than K2, I'd be surprised if GU makes more money for a game there considering they have to pay for the facility and don't get the concessions revenue.

krozman
07-18-2008, 10:09 AM
I just want all the games broadcasted in HD. You can all have the season tickets. I'm not saying watching on TV is better, but with a 2 year old and another baby on the way, sometimes you just gotta hope for what you can get. Maybe when my small children are old enough i'll buy em.

229SintoZag
07-21-2008, 09:01 AM
Ding Ding Ding. Economics runs the world!

Why do they tear down Yankee Stadium and not renovate it. Money.

Why would GU play Memphis at the Spokie Arena and not K2. Money.

I can't stand the crying about us not playing good teams in K2. How many really good out of conference teams play Duke at Cameron? They play good teams b/c they are in a good conference.

I love K2 and I love the Spokie Arena. The games I've been to at the Arena have been awesome and they are still in Spokane. I don't see a reason to complain.

Setting aside for a moment the fact that Duke season ticket holders get to see the best of the ACC at their place every year, rendering this a ridiculous comparison from the get go, it is worth noting that Duke has, in the past five seasons, hosted the following teams at Cameron:


Georgetown
St. Johns
Wisconsin
Michigan
Temple (when they were still very good)
Marquette
Indiana
Memphis
Michigan State
Oklahoma
Purdue


11 decent teams, on their home floor, in the past five years. Average of a litte better than two a year. (Some in fact played Duke twice in that span at Cameron).

I am all for comparing us to Duke when appropriate, but this is not one of those instances.

sittingon50
07-21-2008, 10:05 AM
Just a slight * there Sinto, but a few of those were arranged by the Conference: Big 10-ACC Challenge.

BroncoZAG615
07-21-2008, 10:48 AM
Setting aside for a moment the fact that Duke season ticket holders get to see the best of the ACC at their place every year, rendering this a ridiculous comparison from the get go, it is worth noting that Duke has, in the past five seasons, hosted the following teams at Cameron:


Georgetown
St. Johns
Wisconsin
Michigan
Temple (when they were still very good)
Marquette
Indiana
Memphis
Michigan State
Oklahoma
Purdue


11 decent teams, on their home floor, in the past five years. Average of a litte better than two a year. (Some in fact played Duke twice in that span at Cameron).

I am all for comparing us to Duke when appropriate, but this is not one of those instances.

First of all I hate the Duke comparison. Don't get me wrong, I have loads of respect for Duke but the only comparison we have with them is that we are the most hated team in our conference. Thats really all I see.

Maybe if the WCC had a tournament with another good conference, we would get some home games. Most of those games you listed took place during the ACC/Big 10 Challenge.

I hate to nitpick but I saw that Duke played Temple at home in 04-05 and Temple was not very good at all. All they really had was Mardy Collins and they were bounced in the first round of the NIT.

And Lamont Hamilton is one of my all time fave college basketball players but your not going to convince me that St. Johns was good. Especially when they didn't even make their conference tourney.

So four of those games were actually legit, the rest were either scheduled by the ACC or...well the teams were marginal at best.

229SintoZag
07-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Just a slight * there Sinto, but a few of those were arranged by the Conference: Big 10-ACC Challenge.

Pardon my bluntness, but I have to ask: so what? The games were played at Cameron. If you had season tickets, you got to see the game.

Obviously, we are not going to see any WCC-ACC challenges any time soon. But the point I was making was in response to the contention that Duke doesn't have any decent OOC teams at Cameron. I stand by the proposition that in the past five years anyway, yes, indeed, they do.

229SintoZag
07-21-2008, 11:22 AM
I hate to nitpick as well, but Michigan and Wisconsin were both in the same season. There are not two ACC-Big 10 challenge games each season. So one of those games was, to use your term, "legit," even if we somehow determine the other was not because it was part of the challenge.

And tell me why a game against a Big 10 opponent on your home floor is not legit, just because it is part of a made-for-ESPN promotional deal between two conferences? Does the game not count? Do the players not try as hard? Is it not factored into the RPI?

The claim was made that Duke doesn't play anyone legit at Cameron in OOC. That claim is, demonstrably, false.

If we were talking UW or Syracuse, you might have a point. But Duke actually does a decent job of getting about two quality OOC teams per year to visit Cameron (and they play several other good teams in tournaments or on the road as well in OOC).

BroncoZAG615
07-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Is playing Michigan in recent years a good thing?

I'd rather have GU play high quality teams in Spokane Arena/Key Arena or on the road rather then some low tier Big 10 team at K2. Sure it's fun to say we played a Big 10 team but who cares?

Unless the Fab Five came back and played that game, you can take Michigan and I'll take Memphis, UConn and the rest of our OCC schedule. I'll even give you St. Johns and Temple :)

Legit= legitimate

StocktonIsMyHero
07-21-2008, 11:40 AM
I can't be the only one who sees the sheer folly of comparing Gonzaga to Duke. Until GU wins a few titles, consistently makes at least the Sweet 16, and is a top ten team nearly every year for 20 years, that comparison holds no water at all.

Sinto... fact of the matter is that K2 is too small to make it lucrative enough for a big name team to come play there. Is there a single BCS team that has a gym that holds 6,000? I don't think so.

So for Gonzaga to host a team like that, they have to poney up BIG cash. Six digits big. When you can't sell enough tickets to make it worthwhile for the big boys, that's how it works. And it's not like GU has so much money lying around that it would make sense for the school to write huge checks to a BCS program instead of simply asking people like you to walk over to the Spokane Arena to watch a game.

And without a football program to bring in that kind of dinero or a booster like Phil Knight or T Boone Pickins there to foot the bill, it's not going to happen any time soon.

Now, I do agree with you that it would make sense for other good mid-majors to play each other... Xavier, Southern Illinois, Butler, etc. It would make a lot of sense to have series with teams like that.

But Memphis has a glitzy new arena (the FedEX Forum) that can hold nearly 20,000 and generate tons of money. Why should they come play Gonzaga at K2 for a paltry share of 6,000 tickets when they can set up home-and-homes with the likes of Arizona and Georgetown? (Which they have done.) Your notion that "they need us as much as we need them" is laughable.

Fact of the matter is that while K2 is a great gym and has a tremendous atmosphere, it is still small potatoes when stacked up against the gyms of almost every other college basketball power.

sittingon50
07-21-2008, 12:26 PM
Like I said Sinto, only a slight *. I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just that the list you offered was a bit padded by factors totally outside the control of the school. Gonzaga (& the WCC) don't have that sort of arrangement/clout. And as I read this thread I got the impression that we were talking about "juice."

Put me in the camp that a GU/Duke comparison just ain't there. Hopefully someday.

229SintoZag
07-21-2008, 03:21 PM
Does anyone actually know whether GU even breaks even with the games at the arena, after paying to rent the place and giving up concessions, etc?

Does anyone know whether GU makes more money hosting at game at K2 than it does renting and selling out the arena?

I would be very curious to know the answer to these questions.

As for Stockton--somehow I think Memphis is not a GU guaranty game. Just guessing, but I think it is like most home and homes--you keep your money, we keep ours. Which is why I pose the above two questions.

StocktonIsMyHero
07-21-2008, 03:38 PM
I could be wrong on this, but I thought the standard practice for most "marquee" name teams (like Memphis and most BCS teams) is for them to get a slice of the ticket revenue, even in a "normal" home and home series.

And never underestimate the power of the might $$$... if GU wanted Duke or North Carolina to come play in K2 they could get them for the right price.

229SintoZag
07-22-2008, 09:03 AM
I could be wrong on this, but I thought the standard practice for most "marquee" name teams (like Memphis and most BCS teams) is for them to get a slice of the ticket revenue, even in a "normal" home and home series.

And never underestimate the power of the might $$$... if GU wanted Duke or North Carolina to come play in K2 they could get them for the right price.

Um, no. They couldn't. Sorry.

BroncoZAG615
07-22-2008, 09:09 AM
I recently discovered the "More' smiley faces and think this one describes this thread quite well.


:horse:

StocktonIsMyHero
07-22-2008, 09:19 AM
Um, no. They couldn't. Sorry.

Really? You don't think they would come play at the Kennel for $5 million or something ridiculous like that? I think they would.

And maybe Duke and UNC are a bit too stratosphere... how about a more local team like UCLA or USC or Texas?

Look... you're the one bellyaching here. I think most reasonable people understand the limitations of being a non-BCS school with a small arena. If you want premium games, you have to pay premium prices. I'm not sure where you got the notion that other teams "need" the Zags. The only thing big-time programs "need" from GU in order to come play is a fat paycheck.

229SintoZag
07-22-2008, 09:38 AM
Really? You don't think they would come play at the Kennel for $5 million or something ridiculous like that? I think they would.

And maybe Duke and UNC are a bit too stratosphere... how about a more local team like UCLA or USC or Texas?

Look... you're the one bellyaching here. I think most reasonable people understand the limitations of being a non-BCS school with a small arena. If you want premium games, you have to pay premium prices. I'm not sure where you got the notion that other teams "need" the Zags. The only thing big-time programs "need" from GU in order to come play is a fat paycheck.

Actually I am not the only one "bellyaching." Several others in posts on this topic have stated they agree with me on this issue.

As for other programs "needing" us, I only said one program did: Memphis. They need "us" because CUSA is now depleted and has no decent teams most of the time. Like the WCC.

Whether it be Gonzaga, Georgetown, Arizona, or any other likely top 25 caliber, low RPI team, that is the point I was making about Memphis. They are in the exact same boat we are in--they need decent OOC teams to compensate for a weak conference slate.

Your claim that they don't need us because they scheduled Georgetown and Zona misses the point. We could also say we don't need them because we scheduled Arizona, UConn, Tennessee, etc. The need I was referring to was a perennial, structural need for quality competition that inheres in the conference affiliation of both schools, and never changes year to year. The fact that Memphis got a couple of good schools on the OOC this fall has nothing to do with it. OOC games change every year. The WCC schedule has not changed one iota in decades.

I will put up good money betting that Memphis's refusal to play us at K2 has nothing to do with money. They simply don't want to lose and view a game at the larger, less hostile, less intimate arena where both teams are playing on an unfamiliar court as more winnable. My point is we should not have given them that option, and instead told them we play at our gym on campus in Spokane. If they declined, fine. Replace them with another school, and let them find other OOC games. We have more leverage with Memphis than we do with any BCS teams other than maybe WSU--because of their conference affiliation.

StocktonIsMyHero
07-22-2008, 10:08 AM
They are in the exact same boat we are in--they need decent OOC teams to compensate for a weak conference slate.

Your claim that they don't need us because they scheduled Georgetown and Zona misses the point. We could also say we don't need them because we scheduled Arizona, UConn, Tennessee, etc.

Nah... this is where you are missing the point. Memphis has a big gym (18,000+) that is able to secure home-and-homes with the likes of Georgetown and Arizona. Gonzaga can't do that. Sure we can play them at neutral sites, but I don't think they will be coming to the Kennel any time soon.

And I'm not buying that it's because the Kennel is a tough place to play. What, and the FedEx Forum in Memphis isn't?

Fact of the matter is this: Memphis has a big new gym and a football program that generates money for the athletic department to spend on paying big name opponents. GU doesn't have either.

As for your other points - fair enough. But you can dream all you want, at the end of the day other teams very similar to GU (Xavier, Southern Illinois, Creighton, etc.) aren't landing a lot of marquee opponents either. It's not like the problem is isolated at Gonzaga.

From my point of view, if playing at the Spokane Arena is what it takes to get a Top 5 team, amazing national exposure on College Gameday, and an opportunity for more local fans to see the team play... fine by me. Can't you just accept the fact that having this game is a good thing for the Zags? All the whining just makes you sound petulant.

229SintoZag
07-22-2008, 11:03 AM
I see your points. I don't agree with them all, but I see where you are coming from.

In a lot of ways I guess I just have a different philosophy. I am not ever going to be happy being second class in anything when it comes to GU Men's Hoops. I will not be content to get Memphis at the arena when we should have them at home on campus facing a mob of KC fans going nuts all the way down to the front row on the floor. We are always a top 25 program at this point, and we need to start acting like it. We are better than Xavier. Better than Creighton. Better than Southern Illinois. And a much bigger deal than all of them.

We built a new arena for a reason: to play games there. And we end up playing our best games everywhere but there, it seems. Can't you see how maddening that would be for a season ticket holder who helped chip in to upgrade? I got it when we never got anyone decent in K1. So we built K2. And we were OK for a couple years with Stanford and Virginia and UW (when they were good) coming in. Then nothing.

You and others seem to be saying we just aren't good or big enough to compete, we are just poor little Gonzaga with no football team and a smaller arena so we should be thankful for what we have and not get uppity and demand more than is our lot in the college hoops caste system. If you are content with less, fine. More power to you.

I am not. I know we can get these home and homes because we have in the past. See Stanford. See Virginia. (I notice you never explained how they were apparently exempt from your $$$ argument and your arena size argument). We don't have football, but we did raise $25 million and built a new arena, and I daresay we did not do that with the intention of also paying rent for the bigger gym downtown for our best games. From what Bob has posted we have been within hairs breaths of getting Georgetown and LSU to agree to deals to come to K2 just in the past year or so. Whatever made that happen--ESPN, Any Katz, Gameday, a home date for a NW recruit, whatever--let's do it again, get it done and stop acting like we are merely a Southern Illinois or a Creighton. This is especially true this year when we are on a trajectory to be not only top 25 but top 10 caliber potentially. We need to strike when the iron is hot. I am still hopeful that we will end up adding some decent home games this year at K2. If that happens, Stockton, even though we don't have football and K2 seats only 6,000, for your sake I hope your head doesn't explode.

StocktonIsMyHero
07-22-2008, 11:45 AM
I feel ya, I feel ya... it's always good to hope.

I would probably disagree with Gonzaga being better than Xavier, but on the whole I, likewise, see where you are coming from. I guess my main point is this - K2 was an updgrade for Gonzaga and its fans. If people built it with the idea that it would translate into tons of awesome home games against BCS teams, then they were, at best, naive and, at worst, mislead.

The problem remains... non-BCS, small gym. And how about the simple fact that since the RPI has become such a major tool, a lot of BCS teams don't even play each other in home-and-homes and end up going the neutral route. Some do travel and go to other gyms (Arizona comes to mind), but it's just the way things are these days. And you can't look past the fact that BCS teams have tons of awesome home games every year because of their conferences - it's not worth it to them to travel to a small, dangerous place like Gonzaga just to be able to add GU to their home slate in the next season. If you were a fan of a BCS team, you would probably feel that way too. I mean, it's not like they owe anything to Gonzaga.

Like I said, the problem is endemic throughout college basketball. The plight of the good team from a mid-major conference is pretty well documented by now.

Anyway, I bet GU could get much better games if they agreed to do 2-for-1 deals. But pride gets in the way. And a sense of unfairness. And you know what? It IS unfair. But that's life as a Top 25 team on the outside looking in.

If Few and Roth and whoever can work their magic and get better games into K2 - awesome. But let's not pretend like Virginia was an elite opponent and that Stanford came for reasons other than Gameday.