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View Full Version : Daye Has Partially Torn ACL, per S-R



GU32
07-14-2008, 07:06 PM
You have to be kidding me:mad: :mad:
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/sportslink/archive/?postID=7951#more

thickman1
07-14-2008, 07:14 PM
:(

MDABE80
07-14-2008, 07:28 PM
Dammit! This is the ultimate a**ache. Nobody knows how extenive it is. Some grab lots of fibers and some grab the whole thing. Let's hope this is an easy one. Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Such a good kid. He'll be back.

zagfan24
07-14-2008, 07:30 PM
Why Does This Always Happen To Us?????

bigblahla
07-14-2008, 07:35 PM
As the Cream sang in "Born Under a Bad Sign"

"If it wasn't for real bad luck we wouldn't have no luck at all"

Let's hope for the best, get well Austin.

Go!! Zags!!!

kitzbuel
07-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Uggghhh.

Well, Micah gets a chance to shake his injury bug, step up and show what he is worth now.

zagco
07-14-2008, 07:39 PM
Unreal. This goes on with us year after year after year. Something has got to give. The penchant of hoops players to go off and play all over the place in the offseason is weird, Zagco thinks. Football players at a good football college stay and engage in summer workouts under the supervision and direction of strength and conditioning coaches. Certainly, injuries can happen, but overall it's about getting into prime shape for fall practice. Why do basketball players follow a different path?

MedZag
07-14-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm almost laughing its so ridiculous.

ZagNative
07-14-2008, 07:45 PM
Gonzaga coach Mark Few said. "We just feel really bad for Austin. He was having a really good off season and working hard, but we expect him to return at some point, better than ever.""At some point????

CaliforniaZaggin'
07-14-2008, 07:47 PM
*** Sigh ***

That certainly changes things, to say the least.

Good luck on a speedy recovery, Austin!!! Keep ya head up!!

Salsageek
07-14-2008, 07:48 PM
oh no please tell me this is just a bad dream. :(

BoltZag
07-14-2008, 07:48 PM
If its an ACL/PCL/MCL no way in hades the trainer lets Austin go walking around on it directly after the injury.

And here we are. Seems somebody should have pulled our superstar.

MickMick
07-14-2008, 08:03 PM
Can we stop the final four talk now?

I am hoping for Micah's speedy recovery.

Just A Zag
07-14-2008, 08:13 PM
Can we stop the final four talk now?

I am hoping for Micah's speedy recovery.

?? I'm pretty sure Micah is fine.

theothegreat21
07-14-2008, 08:16 PM
MedZag.....is there a significant difference if it is a partially torn versus fully torn ACL. Im just curious about recovery time and if there is any chance he can pull a Brandon Rush and be back by conference play

MickMick
07-14-2008, 08:19 PM
?? I'm pretty sure Micah is fine.

Austin...sorry

MedZag
07-14-2008, 08:24 PM
MedZag.....is there a significant difference if it is a partially torn versus fully torn ACL. Im just curious about recovery time and if there is any chance he can pull a Brandon Rush and be back by conference play

Yes, there's a huge difference. A partially torn ACL (or even a fully torn one which tore in the middle of the ligament) and when you get into the knee you just throw some sutures in that sucker and look like a miracle worker. Patients with these type of tears are weight bearing on their knee must faster, which aids recovery time exceptionally. If the ACL "tears" off its attachment point to either the intercondylar fossa of the tibia or lateral femoral condyle, then you need the ACL to regraft to the bone during healing, which is a much longer process. Longer time off the knee to heal = longer time to beginning of rehab = stiffer knee when rehab begins = more difficult rehab.

Dogman
07-14-2008, 08:24 PM
Start drinking heavily...

And jump on the IRA! bandwagon!!

theothegreat21
07-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Yes, there's a huge difference. A partially torn ACL (or even a fully torn one which tore in the middle of the ligament) and when you get into the knee you just throw some sutures in that sucker and look like a miracle worker. Patients with these type of tears are weight bearing on their knee must faster, which aids recovery time exceptionally. If the ACL "tears" off its attachment point to either the intercondylar fossa of the tibia or lateral femoral condyle, then you need the ACL to regraft to the bone during healing, which is a much longer process. Longer time off the knee to heal = longer time to beginning of rehab = stiffer knee when rehab begins = more difficult rehab.

So not all hope is lost until we find out what kind of tear it is!!!! What would be the quickest return time from a partially torn or fully torn down the middle acl.

MedZag
07-14-2008, 08:44 PM
So not all hope is lost until we find out what kind of tear it is!!!! What would be the quickest return time from a partially torn or fully torn down the middle acl.

Of course its a case-by-case basis, but I saw a patient in clinic once who was weight-bearing 3 weeks post-op and rehabbing happily back to 100% within 8-10 weeks post-op.

theothegreat21
07-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Well I think we need to find out more about what type of tear Austin has. It seems that if it is indeed a "good" tear, then Austin would be able to be back and 100% healthy by WCC play. Im trying to stay optimistic here

GonzagaLove
07-14-2008, 08:50 PM
I need Fr. Ryan to explain why God does this to me if he loves me?:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

roxdoc
07-14-2008, 08:58 PM
Sounds like maybe it is a good thing after all that Austin does not have much weight for his recovering knee to bear. Austin we are all praying for you.

VinnyZag
07-14-2008, 09:15 PM
The penchant of hoops players to go off and play all over the place in the offseason is weird, Zagco thinks. Football players at a good football college stay and engage in summer workouts under the supervision and direction of strength and conditioning coaches. Why do basketball players follow a different path?

Because the only way to get better at basketball is by playing basketball.

JohnOGU
07-14-2008, 09:23 PM
well the only optimistic thought i have in my head right now is if the story of Brandon Rush is any sort of sign, we're gonna be national champs this year guys... pray it turns out even remotely the same.

zagfan08
07-14-2008, 09:25 PM
It's a partial tear according to the Spokesman Review.

http://spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=15711

ZagNative
07-14-2008, 09:25 PM
Meehan talked to Austin tonight (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/sportslink/archive/?postID=7951) in a story posted at 10:03 pm:

Daye discusses knee injury

Talked by telephone with Austin Daye earlier in the 9 o'clock hour and just filed an updated article that will run in Tuesday's S-R.

Austin sounded a little bummed, understandably, but he was also appreciative of having two visitors at his home in Irvine Monday night -- Ronny Turiaf and GU assistant coach Tommy Lloyd.

One clarification: Daye said doctors have told him he has a partially torn ACL. He wasn't sure of the percentage of the tear or what a partial tear vs. a complete tear means in terms of surgery and recovery, but he expects to have surgery in the next few days. Daye said there is no damage to other knee ligaments (PCL, MCL, LCL) or cartilage.

Daye attended the first session of summer school at GU. He said he might return to Spokane earlier than normal to begin rehabilitation work on his knee, but will wait to see what unfolds in the next few weeks.

Click below for the updated article.

By Jim Meehan
Staff writer

Gonzaga forward Austin Daye thought he had escaped serious injury last Tuesday when he took a hard fall at the LeBron James Skills Academy in Akron, Ohio.

But an MRI taken after Daye returned home to Irvine, Calif., showed he wasn’t so lucky. The talented 6-foot-10 Daye suffered a partially torn anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee. The original diagnosis in Akron was that Daye had injured a tendon in his hamstring.

Daye learned the test results Monday afternoon.

“I wasn’t too happy,” Daye said in a telephone interview. “I was emotionally drained after hearing that.”

He expects to undergo surgery in the next 3-4 days. Gonzaga assistant coach Tommy Lloyd and ex-Bulldog Ronny Turiaf, who has signed an offer sheet with Golden State, visited Daye on Monday night.

Daye averaged 10.5 points and 4.7 rebounds as a true freshman last year and was expected to take on a bigger role this season for the Bulldogs, who are ranked in the top 15 of numerous preseason polls. Daye was honorable mention All-WCC and was selected to the conference’s All-Freshmen Team.

“Unfortunately injuries are part of the game,” Gonzaga head coach Mark Few said. “We just feel really bad for Austin. He was having a really good off season and working hard, but we expect him to return at some point, better than ever.”

Daye’s status for the 2008-09 season isn’t clear and probably won’t be determined for some time. Kansas guard Brandon Rush tore the ACL in his right knee in a pickup game in late May, 2007. He had surgery June 1, but returned to game action in mid November and helped the Jayhawks win the national championship. Kansas coach Bill Self credited Rush’s work ethic and advances in ACL surgery and rehabilitation for Rush’s speedy return. Rush scored 25 points in a NCAA tournament semifinal win over North Carolina and he was selected 13th overall in the NBA Draft in June.

“Hopefully I can come back this season,” Daye said. “I honestly don’t know the recovery time, but if there’s a chance to play and help the team I hope I can do that. At the same time, I don’t want to come back too soon and have something happen.”

Daye went down in a tangle of bodies at LeBron James’ elite camp, which featured 24 top collegiate players.

“I had just passed the ball,” Daye said. “I took a step forward and slipped and my left leg stayed straight and my right knee was bent. I went down and I heard a couple of noises. The trainers back there thought it was my hamstring.”

Read the rest of the story in Jim's blog here (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/sportslink/archive/?postID=7951), including plans to move Micah to the 4 if Austin will be out for an extended period.

theothegreat21
07-14-2008, 09:29 PM
Partial tear is fantastic news considering the circumstances....as Medzag mentioned a few posts ago, we could be looking at only a 3-4 month recovery period as opposed 8-12 months. That could make January 1 a reasonable target

ZagsGoZags
07-14-2008, 09:31 PM
If no other, new, injuries are reported for any of the zag players, I will be curious to see how this will affect the official pre-season rankings. Any people willing to stick their necks out and predict if the rankings will change, and if so, by how much?
In any case, Austin, we are sending our good karma to you, and please know we totally support you, even if you are in the worst case scenario, and are not able to rehab completely in time for the big dance.

MedZag
07-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Partial tear is fantastic news considering the circumstances....as Medzag mentioned a few posts ago, we could be looking at only a 3-4 month recovery period as opposed 8-12 months. That could make January 1 a reasonable target

I will voice some caution on the expectations regarding Austin's rehab. 1/2 the time, an ACL tear is associated with a concurrent tear in the MCL or medial or lateral meniscus. Not dramatic tears on their own, but they can slow rehab considerably.

It's early in the news so we're hearing bits and pieces. But yes, a partial tear is good news.

BroncoZAG615
07-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Immediate thoughts (in order of happening)...

:argh:

:vomit-smiley-007:

:pray:

GonzagaLove
07-14-2008, 09:39 PM
This sucks, but I still like our team. Micah is a BurgerBoy and has not yet played to his potential. Something like this will motivate the hell out of him. I think we will see Austin back, too. Kids his age heal quickly.

This still sucks #$$.

zagfan08
07-14-2008, 09:44 PM
As bad as this is I am very relieved it is only a partial tear. If possible everything will be done to make sure Austin has a speedy, but safe return to the court. Hopefully we'll see him back in action this season, I have a feeling we will.

Best wishes, Austin.

ZagNative
07-14-2008, 09:51 PM
ZN's got a new #1 for tonight's pre-sleep prayer list, most of all that Austin maintain his sense of optimism and grit and determination and trusts that everything is going to work out fine.

I'm so happy that, true to form, Ronny was right there for Austin, to remind him what's possible when a guy has a whole lot of heart.

NEZAGFAN
07-14-2008, 09:53 PM
Wow..this is pretty tough to grasp but I am staying as optimistic as possible and hoping for a speedy recovery for Austin.

MedZag
07-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Per Meehan:


One clarification: Daye said doctors have told him he has a partially torn ACL. He wasn't sure of the percentage of the tear or what a partial tear vs. a complete tear means in terms of surgery and recovery, but he expects to have surgery in the next few days. Daye said there is no damage to other knee ligaments (PCL, MCL, LCL) or cartilage.

ACL injuries are graded I-III. Grade I = ACL hyperextension. Grade II = ACL partial tear. Grade III = Complete tear of ACL.

Austin is lucky. Only ~15-20% of ACL injuries are grade I or II.

For a high level athlete like Daye, a grade II ACL strain (i.e. partial tear) still means surgery. For those of a less elite level, like your typical middle aged american, non-surgical treatment is used, and the patient can typically recover the majority of their ACL function. But for elite athletes, "majority of function" isn't good enough and he will go under the knife.

I'm not well versed in current orthopaedic surgical strategies, but I believe a partial tear is still treated with surgical reinforcement of the patient's own ligament, as opposed to allograft or cadaveric replacements done in total tears. This may or may not be the case in elite athletes, I am not sure.

Final4Zag
07-14-2008, 10:15 PM
I just checked new posts today. I can't believe this. Do we have bad karma or something? I guess I let out a loud yell, the wife says it was nothing personal and I should calm down. Austin, sending many good thoughts your way. Like the coach says, you'll be back and better then ever.

zagster318
07-14-2008, 10:20 PM
It's always something...:(

zagirl2k
07-14-2008, 10:25 PM
One of my least favorite combinations of letters is A-C-L.

They suck plain and simple. At least they did the MRI before too long, I half-way understand (but am still very annoyed) how my dumb doctors misdiagnosed back in 94, but I am kind of surprised they missed this one initially.

Best of luck for a speedy recovery to Austin.

Akzag
07-14-2008, 10:42 PM
1) sigh, this sucks.

2) re: Ronny and Tommy. I almost feel ashamed for "expecting" them to be there. I am grateful, and again I am thankful of our GU community.

3) Medical question - does "altitude" affect MRIs, because someone in oHIo sure screwed up ...

abeanzag
07-14-2008, 11:47 PM
Its 1:00 in the morning and I can't sleep because of the heat. I think to myself...hey just go look on the computer for a few minutes...you haven't even gone to the GU Boards yet...okay, that should be fun...Daye torn ACL. Oh, glad I got up, now I can sleep beautifully.

ZagNut08
07-15-2008, 02:04 AM
This news sure put a damper on my birthday. I was having a grand ol time until gunzawguh texted me the news.

I was bored the other day and watched the game this past year @ santa clara where daye takes over in the overtimes. I was starting to get excited about what he would do this season.

As much as it sucks for us, it has to suck much worse for him. Thoughts go out to him for a quick recovery

jbslicer
07-15-2008, 02:19 AM
http://spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=15711
This ain't good.

MississppiZag
07-15-2008, 03:34 AM
Before my heart stops, will someone PLEASE tell me when they expect for Austin Daye to play his first game of the season? Will he miss the entire out of conference season? My unfortunate guess is yes. Please someone tell me that i am wrong. If it is only partial then he should not miss as much time as Brandon Rush did, right?:(

RenoZag
07-15-2008, 03:45 AM
Before my heart stops, will someone PLEASE tell me when they expect for Austin Daye to play his first game of the season? Will he miss the entire out of conference season? My unfortunate guess is yes. Please someone tell me that i am wrong. If it is only partial then he should not miss as much time as Brandon Rush did, right?:(

Too early to say; the posts in this thread by MedZag make it pretty clear that the recovery time for this kind of injury can vary greatly.

Austin's comment Re: not rushing back too soon seems spot on to me:


“Hopefully I can come back this season,” Daye said. “I honestly don’t know the recovery time, but if there’s a chance to play and help the team I hope I can do that. At the same time, I don’t want to come back too soon and have something happen.”

23dpg
07-15-2008, 05:04 AM
I feel bad for the Zags but worse for Austin. This will probably hurt his prospects in next year's draft. Dang.

GoZags
07-15-2008, 05:31 AM
The Zags will be fine, and Daye will (eventually) be fine. Dreams of running through the aggressive OCC unblemished went out the window -- but this will give Rob a chance (when Josh moves to the 4).

As for ACL's and Elite athletes, didn't Tiger just win the US Open with a torn ACL and a couple of stress fractures in his tibia? Yes, I know -- different sport -- and I've seen him speak a few times on t.v. since his surgery and he's NOT having fun right now..... but again, the Zags will be fine. Sure would be nice to have Austin back in December though.

kitzbuel
07-15-2008, 05:34 AM
Austin...sorry
Don't freak us out too much!

siliconzag
07-15-2008, 06:02 AM
In rank order the most important are: ACL, MCL, >>LCL, PCL. Partial tear is on a spectrum. It would help to know what percentage. I never believed it was a hamstring because of the history of a pop. This means something gave. Muscles generally don't pop. I was hoping for a subluxation of the patella=benign. However that said, there are many athletes who recover without surgery from conditions like this. He needs a good physical therapist, and a good orthopedist who specializes in knees.

I have known many athletes with ACL injuries. The young ones heal reasonably quickly. They need a lot of resistance training to strengthen the distal quadriceps. Under the supervision of a good ortho/PT team this may not be a season ending injury. I would say, probably around mid November he might be able to play, if the percentage of the tear is on the mild end of the spectrum. Are there any sports medicine docs up there? I know a couple of good ones in Portland. They usually locate in areas with a professional sports franchise.

Sili

Nevtelen
07-15-2008, 06:04 AM
Oh man. What news to wake up to. This has already ruined my day and it's only 7 AM.

Best of luck to Austin for a quick and complete recovery. He must be devastated.

This is *seriously* bad news for the team. It's very possible GU doesn't win the WCC now.

GoZags
07-15-2008, 06:50 AM
It's very possible GU doesn't win the WCC now.


Just my opinion, but to me it's always very possible that GU doesn't win the WCC. There are 7 other schools doing their best to win -- and usually at least a couple that have the talent, drive, and coaching to knock off GU.

This current streak of regular season and/or conference tourney championships is beyond amazing.

Sure, a healthy Austin helps..... but the Zags are still the Zags and come February/March they'll be in a good position to defend their regular season and win back the tourney title.

ZaggyStardust
07-15-2008, 07:15 AM
God Bless you Austin! Here's to a speedy recovery, and keep your chin up - a good, strong positive attitude is crucial!

Now the other side of the coin as I see it - this will once again, give Micah the chance to shine. Remember how he stepped up when Josh went out? Also, I was watching a couple of the early games last season when Micah was starting and he looked really good. Sometime last year, Micah lost all of his confidence - most likely because of injury and rotation changes. But I sincerely believe he can and will fill the void big time! We are fine at the guard spot and we have always been relatively thin up front... But I think this may put us back under the radar a little and these guys will step it up in the face of this adversity. Injury creates opportunity and playing time and depth.... We'll be alright!

Just trying to stay positive and look for the silver lining....

Nevtelen
07-15-2008, 07:17 AM
Fair enough. It's *more possible than usual* is maybe better wording. Not only is Austin tremendously important to the season, but he plays the position that was already the team's achillies heel in terms of depth.

cjm720
07-15-2008, 07:42 AM
Wow, bummer news. Best of luck with recovery, Austin!!!

GO ZAGS

thebigsmoove
07-15-2008, 08:02 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im going to go crawl into a closet somewhere, rock back and forth, and cry...

cougs4ever
07-15-2008, 08:19 AM
You guys have the worst luck! Every year it's someone going down.

Hope Austin is back quickly.

tyra
07-15-2008, 08:27 AM
Most importantly, here's to Austin's speedy recovery. In the meantime . . . there seems to be an assumption on the board that Micah "replaces" Austin. I don't doubt that Micah's minutes go up quite a bit and I don't know if people also intend that to mean that Micah is a starter but I wonder. The Coach likes a 3 guard rotation and it seems to me that a Heytvelt, Sacre, Bouldin, Gray, Pargo starting rotation is just as likely -- with Micah still coming off the bench and playing many minutes. I'm not saying this as a preference but just as a possibility. It seems as though this could increase the minutes of the two big guys as well as some others (Ira, for example).

omahazag
07-15-2008, 08:41 AM
You guys have the worst luck! Every year it's someone going down.

Hope Austin is back quickly.

You nailed it. Simply amazing. obviously, wel'll know more after surgery...until then, any ideas/speculation as to how long a PARTIAL tear takes to rehab?

Once and Future Zag
07-15-2008, 08:57 AM
Relax - we've still got a full roster.

Austin is a phenomenal talent, and will certainly be missed by his absence, but I'd rather err on the side of caution with that knee. No need re-aggravating at game-speed until it's fully healed. No need to put his NBA future at risk.

If a redshirt for medical reasons is what it takes then that's fine from my POV. Austin needs to heal, and they need to get LeBron's trainers some sports injury 101 training.

We may not be a pre-season top 10 now, but we've still got a roster filled with guys who could hold their own with anyone in the country -- 2 NBA-level talents (Pargo and Heytvelt) as starters and that's a lot more than virtually everyone else in D-I, not to mention the phenomenal supporting cast we have.

I don't think there's any doubt that we've had more than our fair share of injuries, but that also means Austin has a lot of potential support from the GU basketball "community" to help him. Maybe he and Ammo can share war stories.

MississppiZag
07-15-2008, 09:02 AM
This is the worse news ever, but....honestly who are we going to lose to besides maybe UCONN. We can still beat Arizona, anyone in the Old Spice Classic, and Tennessee. I still think there is still a chance that we only lose 3 or 4 total games. We can definitely beat Indiana, Utah, and Wash St. We should not lose more than 4, then he will be back for the Conference games, as well as the Memphis and Tennessee game. We will be fine. It obviously would be better to have his talent, but we won't lose more than 4 in the OOC.

I still can not believe this happened. Get well, and come back with a vengeance.

MedZag
07-15-2008, 09:03 AM
You nailed it. Simply amazing. obviously, wel'll know more after surgery...until then, any ideas/speculation as to how long a PARTIAL tear takes to rehab?

Like sili said, its on a spectrum determined by (1) the percentage of the actual ligament torn and (2) desired level of activity post-injury. Partial tears can and have been successfully rehabbed non-surgically as sili well described. Quad strength is absolutely key to provide stability to the knee while the ligament heals. Sounds like from the article that Austin is going under the knife though, which isn't surprising, as young elite athletes who desire getting back to "100%" are often treated more aggressively, i.e. surgically (strangely, I have yet to see a study on whether this sort of approach actually leads to better outcomes post-injury).

ACLs are a tricky sucker. Some people breeze through their rehab. Others its like trying to climb a sand mountain. Austin has a few factors going in his favor: the fact the tear is partial, the fact that he did not damage his MCL or meniscus as well, and the fact he is a young athlete with good existing muscle strength in his legs pre-op. I agree with sili that a return this season somewhere around mid-november seems plausible, but I would strongly refrain from anyone expecting him back sooner rather than later. Above all, he's going to need time to heal.

CDC84
07-15-2008, 09:36 AM
Obviously, the priority here is for Austin Daye to get healthy. That has to come first. However, I just feel terrible for him. From a team and prospect development standpoint, Austin really, really needed to learn what it means to play 30+ MPG against elite level teams like Michigan State, UConn and Tennessee. He needed to face that level of competition, and play against teams who can be super physical with him and throw all sorts of bodies at him. During these kinds of games last season, Austin didn’t see a whole lot of PT.

I have been told by multiple people whose opinion I trust, including people who saw him play a lot at LeBron's camp, that the biggest obstacle Austin needs to overcome are the psychological hurdles he has yet to surmount when it comes to handling and absorbing contact, both when driving towards the hoop, and when battling underneath. There are too many examples of players like Reggie Miller who were never that strong, but who possessed toughness. It’s the single thing that’s keeping Daye from being one of the best players in college basketball. If he comes back, the fear of reinjuring his leg is likely to delay this development. Players that come back after injuries like this often take months to trust their injured leg once again.

Mr Vulture
07-15-2008, 09:38 AM
I wouldn't go to crazy about this at this point. Remember, it depends on the person but a Grade 2 tear with no other damage is the best you could hope for. Unless they find something else when they go in I would expect him to be weight bearing in about 6 weeks...maybe less. He would then begin a rehab of unknown time as it varies person to person...I would estimate 12 weeks if there is no other damage....so in reality you are looking at 4 months with a shot at 3 months if all goes very well. Bottomline, I would expect him back in December sometime and don't think there will be much long term concern with this type of injury...

BobZag
07-15-2008, 09:56 AM
http://www.bbcarchive.org.uk/pmwiki/pub/localphotos/sinking_ship.jpg

mnzag24
07-15-2008, 10:16 AM
This news sure put a damper on my birthday. I was having a grand ol time until gunzawguh texted me the news.


He would do that to you on your birthday! he's not very nice!

BroncoZAG615
07-15-2008, 10:20 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3488551

Ugh.

Are we ever on ESPN's top stories for anything good???

Reborn
07-15-2008, 10:22 AM
Sad news for Austin and family, as well as for the Zag team and community. Austin, we're all behind you, and you'll be supported by a whole lot of prayer. Expect a speedy recovery. Glad to hear that Roney T. is there with him. He's the perfect friend to be there because he has been through the ringer as well. Roney will help keep Austin's spirits up, and hopefully this board will as well.

Of course the Zags will miss Austin and the terrific game he has. It will affect our preseason ranking. My guess is we'll now be closer to #20-25. Austin is seen as a big time talent by media.

The Zags will continue to be who they are, and that's fighters. We have someone down every year. I just hope Josh comes back at full strength and stayes healthy. You can almost count on some Zag going down with an injury every year.

I hope everyone stays positive. I think it helps. We have plenty of great players to pick up the slack and they will. They are Zags. It will help Sacre the most, imo, and then Downs. Downs is a very tough kid, and he's a senior. Trust me, Micah will pick it up, and from everything I've read this summer, Micah is having a very good summer, and his play seems to have improved considerably. I also see Ira getting a bigger chance to show what he can do. This is a huge chance for guy to show the coaches what they can contribute. Firstly we will need points because Austin is a scoring machine. Of the 3 guys I've mentioned, Downs is the best scorer. However, Few could go with Sacre at the 5 and Josh at the 4. This would give Josh a chance to shoot outside more, which he likes.

There are a ton of options, and I like them all. The strength of the team this year, imo, has never been Austin, but Josh, Pargo, Downs, and Ira. I like seniors, and we have at least 3 very, very good ones. Their experience will pay off early on in the season when it'll be most needed while Austin rehabs. The best scenario is that Austin returns in December and will certainly be ready by WCC play and the tournaments. Let's go Zags. Keep your heads up.

scott_fivefour
07-15-2008, 10:22 AM
Think of how bad this could have been if pargo left.

john montana
07-15-2008, 10:30 AM
Crap.

BroncoZAG615
07-15-2008, 10:32 AM
Think of how bad this could have been if pargo left.


It was too good to be true with him staying haha!

I was just thinking about that as I stared at my work. I honestly don't know what player we could least afford to lose. I started to realize that Daye is more valuble just because of numbers. We're so thin at the forward and big man spot and SO thick at guard. Losing Pargo means we still have Gray, Bouldin, Meech, Gibbs that can all play or have had experience at PG.

With those four guys we could sub in and out enough guards to be okay but who is going to make up for Austin? I don't think anyone can.

I've moved to serious depression... :(

LongIslandZagFan
07-15-2008, 11:43 AM
Not going to get into the doom and gloom of it all. Speedy recovery Austin. What I am shocked with is that none of the big boys have picked this up yet. Not a peep on any of the major Mens BB sites.

Correction... news is starting to trickle out now. ESPN and SI have it.

mendiant
07-15-2008, 11:48 AM
God Bless you Austin! Here's to a speedy recovery, and keep your chin up - a good, strong positive attitude is crucial!

Now the other side of the coin as I see it - this will once again, give Micah the chance to shine. Remember how he stepped up when Josh went out? Also, I was watching a couple of the early games last season when Micah was starting and he looked really good. Sometime last year, Micah lost all of his confidence - most likely because of injury and rotation changes. But I sincerely believe he can and will fill the void big time! We are fine at the guard spot and we have always been relatively thin up front... But I think this may put us back under the radar a little and these guys will step it up in the face of this adversity. Injury creates opportunity and playing time and depth.... We'll be alright!

Just trying to stay positive and look for the silver lining....

What Zaggy-ness said....it's good to remember BB is a team sport.

Our prayers go out to you, Austin. Look for the opportunities in this!

love,
mendiant

siliconzag
07-15-2008, 11:53 AM
What a bunch of "nattering nabobs of negatavism!"

First off this team has a lot of experience. Not having a superstar does not always mean disaster. Remember when the team stood around waiting for Adam to do something in the UCLA game in the moments? What about the time they stood around waiting for Dickau in the Wyoming game? Having a go to guy is problematic if the opposition figures out how to stop the go to guy. This team is going to be fine. It will not be a top 10 team at first. And with the right kind of rehab, I would not rule Austin out. He did not trash his meniscus. His rehab will be much quicker than complete ACL tears. It is a shame this happened, but it is not the end of the world.

Micah Downs is going to break out. Stephen Gray is going to continue to improve, and he is already awesome. The team may need to learn to play defense. And perhaps there is still time for the coach to learn how to coach defense. (Pardon the snark).

Pessimism serves no function. Let's pull ourselves together, lads. As Prince Hal would have said, "Once more into the breech dear friends, once more."

Sili

Qhall43
07-15-2008, 12:14 PM
Katz has an article up but it's an Insider, so if anyone who has access would like to fill us lowly folk in...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3489395&name=katz_andy&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3489395%26name%3dkatz _andy

Das Zagger
07-15-2008, 12:36 PM
It's mid-July god sakes, calm down. So what if AD misses a few games early on? If this injury happened in January then I might be concerned.

I've seen a few doctor types posting in this thread, I agree with their statements. I did a partial tear in high school, no surgery, and only missed a few practices. I know AD is a better athlete that I so I imagine his recovery would be significantly better.

Let's get a grip though, fellas.

zagirl2k
07-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Katz has an article up but it's an Insider, so if anyone who has access would like to fill us lowly folk in...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3489395&name=katz_andy&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3489395%26name%3dkatz _andy

Basically says the coaches were never convinced it was just a hamstring when it first happened based on how it looked and how he described it and they don't really know how long he'll be out at this point.


Non-contact, cutting injuries are so often ACLs it is scary. Most of the time I can call it just by the description of how it happened.

It's not the end of the world, he will heal, but it is pretty crappy news.

theothegreat21
07-15-2008, 01:07 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/9358566

Good stuff by Parrish over at cbs....just a reminder that we should all stay optimistic

LongIslandZagFan
07-15-2008, 01:29 PM
Please step back from the ledge people. This is NOT the end of the world.

DenDiegoZag
07-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Let's hope that Austin has a speedy and completely successful recovery, with emphasis placed on the latter over the former.

BobZag
07-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Gonzaga coaches Mark Few and Leon Rice were never convinced that Austin Daye's injury was limited to a hamstring tendon injury.



Why?


"Because of how it looked and Austin saying that something popped," Rice, an associate head coach at Gonzaga, said Tuesday afternoon. "Some diagnosis huh?"

Rice was referencing the diagnosis by the training staff at the Nike LeBron James Skills Academy last week in Akron that Daye had injured his right hamstring, not his knee, after making a cut and falling to the court at Rhodes Arena last Tuesday.

Tuesday, Rice confirmed an earlier report in the Spokesman-Review that the initial diagnosis from an MRI taken last Friday in Los Angeles was a partially torn ACL.

Daye, one of the top rising sophomores in the country, said last week that he heard a popping sound.

"It just looked so bad," said Rice, who along with head coach Mark Few happened to be in the gym watching Daye and other college players work out. Few and Rice raced over to be with Daye, but then saw him stretch and walk around the side court. Later that night the pair was hopeful that the original diagnosis was correct. Daye even talked about playing last weekend in the Say No League in his hometown of Los Angeles. Daye had the MRI Friday and obviously didn't play.

Rice said the Gonzaga staff is waiting on another opinion before a final decision is made on surgery. Daye, the son of former NBA guard Darren Daye, was projected to be one of the top players in the WCC and one of the main reasons the Zags were picked to finish ahead of Saint Mary's and San Diego in the WCC and as a potential top-10 team. The Zags return WCC Player of the Year Jeremy Pargo, who withdrew from the NBA draft last month. Guards Matt Bouldin, Micah Downs and Steven Gray join center Josh Heytvelt on the defending regular-season WCC champs.

Rice said it's too early to speculate on how long Daye will be out and whether or not he could return this season or at what point.

"We just have to get with Austin and see where he's at mentally before we go forward," Rice said. "The most important thing is Austin's health."


If Daye is out for the fall then the Zags will be without him for yet another challenging nonconference schedule that includes games in the Orlando Old Spice Classic (Georgetown, Michigan State, Tennessee, Oklahoma State, Siena, Maryland and Wichita State), Connecticut in Seattle, at Tennessee, Indiana (at least in name) in Indianapolis, Arizona in Phoenix and at Utah. The Memphis game in Spokane will likely be during the conference season in the winter.

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/panic_usb_1.jpg

ZagNative
07-15-2008, 04:15 PM
Darren Daye talks with Jim Meehan here (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/sportslink/archive/?postID=7952):

Roundup of Daye news

Touched base with Darren Daye, Austin's father, earlier today and he's in crash course mode, trying to learn everything he can about the ACL, surgery, potential surgeons, rehab, etc.

Read on below to hear more from Darren Daye and a couple of articles regarding Austin from ESPN.com and CBS's sportsline.com.

Everyone is obviously wondering how long Austin will be sidelined. Unfortunately there isn't a definite timeline at this point, as the article below discusses.

This will be a long post because several items are cut-and-paste.

First, here's my unedited article that will run in Wednesday's S-R...

By Jim Meehan
Staff writer

Darren Daye never hurt his ACL during his playing days at UCLA and in the NBA, but he’s spent the last two days learning as much as he can about the knee ligament.

Daye’s son, Austin, a talented 6-foot-10 sophomore-to-be at Gonzaga, was diagnosed with a partially torn ACL in his right knee Monday.

“I’m learning about it as I go, just like everyone else,” Darren said. “I don’t have a lot of answers. I’m just trying to figure things out.”

Daye said he doesn’t know the percentage of the tear in Austin’s ACL, but was told that it’s high grade, “whatever that means.” That probably means Daye’s injury is in the 2 or 2-plus range on the 3-point scale of ACL injuries. One generally means there is some stretching of the ACL and is considered the least serious. Two is usually a partial tear with the concern being the possibility of a complete tear in the future. Three is a completely ruptured ACL.

The younger Daye was injured last week when he fell during drills at the LeBron James Skills Academy. It was initially believed to be an injured hamstring tendon. Darren suggested that his son see the family physician when he returned to southern California.

The family physician referred Austin to a specialist where tests revealed a partial tear. Darren said surgery has been recommended.

“We want to have it done sooner rather than later,” Darren said, “but I’d rather it take a little longer to get it done by somebody we have confidence in.”

Daye’s father has heard several different timelines for recovery, but there are numerous determining factors, including the severity of the injury, how the operation goes and the patient’s approach and diligence with rehabilitation.

“Our family doctor said it’s usually a 6-9 month situation where you just have to let it heal and hit the rehab pretty hard,” Darren said.

Daye said his son’s health is his primary concern. Austin averaged 10.5 points in just 18.5 minutes per game and blocked 54 shots as a true freshman. He’s been on the radar of NBA teams since he arrived at Gonzaga. At one point early in the 2007-08 season, Austin was projected as the No. 1 pick in the 2009 Draft.

“Next season is really not my concern,” Darren said. “Obviously we’d like him to be ready next year, but as of right now I’m concerned more about his future. Fans might think differently. We don’t know how long his career will be, but we feel like he’s going to have a career after (college basketball).”

Austin had surgery on his elbow for a broken arm between his sophomore and junior years of high school. “The funny thing about that was he was listed at 6-4 and by summer league the following year he was still listed at 6-4, even though he was 6-10,” Darren said.

Darren said it’ll be hard to imagine his son without a basketball in his hands for a while. The younger Daye typically is in a Los Angeles area summer league that features players from UCLA, USC and other West Coast schools, but that won’t happen this summer.

Austin’s spirits were buoyed by visits from GU assistant coach Tommy Lloyd and ex-Bulldog standout Ronny Turiaf on Monday night.

“Austin wasn’t feeling too good about it (earlier Monday), but life throws you curveballs. It’s not always easy and he’s dealing with it,” Darren said. “Ronny and Tommy spent a lot of time with him. They were nice enough to come down from L.A. That was great.”

CanadZag
07-15-2008, 04:35 PM
This is everything I know from ACL injuries (which is from experience).

I tore my ACL late last summer playing soccer and had reconstructive surgery on it on March 11. (Canada's public health care...it's free but you wait).

I was told by my doctor going into surgery that my knee was the "tightest" that he has ever seen in hundreds of surgeries. Which he said is what most people call a partially torn ligament, but in actuality, the ligament is so thin that, "it would be almost impossible to partially tear it."

Anyways, this "tightness" is supposed to be a great thing for rehab. This is what I'm assuming would be similar to Austin. However, I also had a slight tear in the meniscus.

I am currently on week 17 of my rehab, which has been painful, grueling, but most importantly progressive ever since. I am 22 years old and have been working ridiculously hard at getting it back to playing sports shape (no I am not a D-I athlete, but I still have several good years in me before I hit the beer leagues). With little setbacks and hard work, I am further ahead with my rehab than anyone I have talked to in real life (unfortunately I have not met Brandon Rush).

My goal is to be ready for the start of hockey season (my name is CanadZag, I have a stereotype to uphold) in October.

At Week 17 of my rehab I have most of my strength and stability back. I have 98% of my flexibility and I can run 2 kilometers without trouble.

However, my explosiveness and ability to cut still has several weeks of work.

My point is this, If Austin has surgery next week 17 weeks would be approximately mid-November, the start of the season, which I can say there is no way that he could play at a high level. But end of January? That is very realistic. If I can do it, I am confident in the people around Austin and Gonzaga that he will be able to recover, God-willing.

Austin, bud, it is a painful process, both physically and emotionally, but it does get better, and you have excellent people around you to help you get back to your old form.

All the best,

CanadZag

GO ZAGS!!!

BobZag
07-15-2008, 05:18 PM
The knee will heal and be fine but even when the doctor(s) gives him the 100% thumbs up green light, it'll take time for him to trust his knee again. Psychologically, he won't make cuts as hard, he won't jump quite as hard, he'll instinctively try to avoid contact in a contact sport, will take the jumper instead of driving.... The mental is just as important as the physical. That will take time to overcome.

Once and Future Zag
07-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Another brief thought.

I'm sure Austin Daye does not want to follow in Dennis Dixon's footsteps here.

There's a cautionary tale there about rushing things (no pun intended).

siliconzag
07-15-2008, 05:29 PM
http://www.steadman-hawkins.com/physicianSteadman.asp

This guy has worked on a lot of skiiers. Actually the most common ski injury is a torn ACL.

As more information is made available, the situation seems more bleak to me.
Stanford (hate to admit it) has a great Sports Medicine Department.

Indeed a bummer, but it is part of college sports. I still remember the terrible sound at Levy when Mike Nilson stepped on a Gale and tore his Achilles Tendon. You could hear the rip all the way in the stands. When you hear noises after injuries, it's always bad.

Second opinions are good. Lest we get overly dramatic it is good to remember that many athletes have recovered from this surgery. Including many examples from alpine skiing, where there are more ACL injuries than any other sport.

Sili

Scotto
07-15-2008, 06:42 PM
Was just watching the MLB allstar game and they mention Milton Bradley of the Texas Rangers who tore his ACL last year. He was expected to be out a year, but was back in 6 months. Hopefully Austin heals the same way.

Spokanicoug
07-15-2008, 07:10 PM
Bad deal Bulldogs. Please accept my sympathies. I love watching AD play. Lets all hope (and pray) for the best.

You never know, it could end up being a good thing. Somehow.........someway.

JoeZag
07-16-2008, 06:09 AM
The knee will heal and be fine but even when the doctor(s) gives him the 100% thumbs up green light, it'll take time for him to trust his knee again. Psychologically, he won't make cuts as hard, he won't jump quite as hard, he'll instinctively try to avoid contact in a contact sport, will take the jumper instead of driving.... The mental is just as important as the physical. That will take time to overcome.

I tore my ACL playing football on astroturf and I still vividly recall the sound (like twigs snapping), so I had a bad feeling when I first read the article where Austin said he heard something pop. I worked my tail off to rehab it and five months later I thought I was good to go so I decided to play a round of golf. I slipped on a wet tee box and tore it again! It took me another six months to recover from the second surgery, but almost two years before I trusted the knee psychologically. I wore a large brace to play basketball and even to jog, because in my mind the knee just wasn't right. I have since torn the same ACL a third time (basketball), but I am too old to worry about replacing it. I have to have the scar tissue and bits of cartilage removed every five years or so, but that's the price of playing games. Hopefully Austin will take his time and make sure that he is physically and mentally ready before he returns. I hate to say it from a fan's perspective, but if it takes him the entire year then so be it. We want him back healthy for the long term. Best of Luck Austin!