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View Full Version : We're #9, We're #9, We're #9!



BobZag
06-17-2008, 08:53 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=3446170

Or are we?

Question:

By next March, in the AP's final poll, will Gonzaga be ranked higher than 9, or will they be ranked lower than 9?

What's your prediction?

mnzag24
06-17-2008, 09:02 AM
san diego getting some love too.

i predict, as long as we stay healthy, we will be higher, PLEASE stay healthy!

theothegreat21
06-17-2008, 09:02 AM
I actually think anywhere between 7-10 is where we will end up. However, I think that the overall improvement of the WCC will allow us to lose anywhere between 3-6 games throughout the season and stay in the top 10. Hopefully this gets us the 2 seed out west, and a roadtrip of Boise/Portland, Phoenix, Detroit to cap off my senior year :)

zagster318
06-17-2008, 09:09 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=3446170

Or are we?

Question:

By next March, in the AP's final poll, will Gonzaga be ranked higher than 9, or will they be ranked lower than 9?

What's your prediction?

I would hope higher. On paper, there are only two teams with more talent than Gonzaga...UNC & Pitt.

Rubbadub
06-17-2008, 09:10 AM
Miami at #8 seems a little silly to me.

zagster318
06-17-2008, 09:16 AM
Miami at #8 seems a little silly to me.

They're probably a top 15 team, with the potential to be in the top 10. That being said, wasn't this team picked last in the ACC last year?

dnj116
06-17-2008, 09:20 AM
God I would love to be higher than nine by the end of the season. Hopefully a repeat of several years ago. But with our tough non-conference slate we could easily lose a couple and drop to the ranks of 20ish.

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 09:40 AM
I would hope higher. On paper, there are only two teams with more talent than Gonzaga...UNC & Pitt.


Bingo.

I might throw Michigan State in there but that is just because I'm a huge Kalin Lucas and Raymar Morgan fan.

This year HAS to be a banner year for Gonzaga. This team should be comfortable with eachother as they return their main core outside of Pendo and Kuso.

We have the talent to finish in the Top 4. From there, Who Knows. :)

77Zag
06-17-2008, 09:49 AM
I would think getting to the Final 4 for the first time will put us in the top 5 of the final poll

:D

zaguarxj
06-17-2008, 09:51 AM
* eyes glaze over - enters trance *

Number 1!!!

* wakes up *

ZagMan in Philly
06-17-2008, 09:53 AM
We are higher here...Can't wait for the season to start!!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8253908/Tar-Heels-stand-as-national-title-favorite-in-'09

zagster318
06-17-2008, 09:59 AM
We are higher here...Can't wait for the season to start!!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8253908/Tar-Heels-stand-as-national-title-favorite-in-'09

I like this poll better, and not just because Gonzaga is ranked higher. That being said, I don't understand why Duke and Notre Dame are ranked so high. Is it just because they're Duke and Notre Dame?

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 10:23 AM
I think Notre Dame deserves to be top-10 at least top-15.

Harangody is a beast and McAlarney is a stud.

Their best year maybe in two years when they get younger Hansbrough and another talented transfer...as long as the Gody stays.

Rubbadub
06-17-2008, 10:33 AM
We are higher here...Can't wait for the season to start!!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8253908/Tar-Heels-stand-as-national-title-favorite-in-'09

Those rankings have a poll down the page a little bit asking who deserves number 2. Work your magic Zag fans. :)

SteeleMan
06-17-2008, 10:38 AM
I think it will come down to 2 things. Leadership and defense with a bigger emphasis on the latter. If the defensive intensity remains status quo, then I'll have to go with the over (9). LG leaving won't help. Katz nailed it that the Zags will have scorers, whether thay want to exert more on defense is the question.

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 10:43 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8253908/Tar-Heels-stand-as-national-title-favorite-in-'09

Ahh...

Vote Vote Vote....we're bringing up the rear with only 7%.

These Fox Sports folks are smart and only let you vote once! :)

Rubbadub
06-17-2008, 10:55 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8253908/Tar-Heels-stand-as-national-title-favorite-in-'09

Ahh...

Vote Vote Vote....we're bringing up the rear with only 7%.

These Fox Sports folks are smart and only let you vote once! :)

I'm not sure if it counted them all, but I voted and refreshed the page about 10 times and by the last one our % had raised from 7 to 9.

SageOfZagville
06-17-2008, 10:57 AM
I too am excited about this team. On paper they look like an offensive machine. But......

Just two short months ago, we were all lamenting the lack of a back-to-the-basket scorer. Unless Rob makes "Huge" strides between his Freshman and Sophmore years, we still will have problems getting the most out of our offensive sets. If we had a Batista type scorrer down low, we would be nearly unstoppable on offense. Let's temper our enthusiasm until we see how our "Bigs" will play. Then, perhaps we can start talking about final four.

The Sage

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 11:01 AM
I too am excited about this team. On paper they look like an offensive machine. But......

Just two short months ago, we were all lamenting the lack of a back-to-the-basket scorer. Unless Rob makes "Huge" strides between his Freshman and Sophmore years, we still will have problems getting the most out of our offensive sets. If we had a Batista type scorrer down low, we would be nearly unstoppable on offense. Let's temper our enthusiasm until we see how our "Bigs" will play. Then, perhaps we can start talking about final four.

The Sage

Josh may not be the prototypical back to the basket player but he is going to take a lot of stress off of Rob if he comes back into his own this year.

He showed flashes of a nice hook shot and the ability to want to be down low and bang for this team.

Rob will not dominate next year but him and Josh together could be a formidable and one of the most athletic front courts in the nation.

Rob is important to the frontcourt success, but Josh is the Key.

Rubbadub
06-17-2008, 11:05 AM
Josh may not be the prototypical back to the basket player but he is going to take a lot of stress off of Rob if he comes back into his own this year.

He showed flashes of a nice hook shot and the ability to want to be down low and bang for this team.

Rob will not dominate next year but him and Josh together could be a formidable and one of the most athletic front courts in the nation.

Rob is important to the frontcourt success, but Josh is the Key.

Rub agrees. We're up to 14% in that poll btw.

Nevtelen
06-17-2008, 11:21 AM
I think it will come down to 2 things. Leadership and defense with a bigger emphasis on the latter. If the defensive intensity remains status quo, then I'll have to go with the over (9). LG leaving won't help. Katz nailed it that the Zags will have scorers, whether thay want to exert more on defense is the question.

I disagree. As long as the Zags play D like they did this past year (with a couple of exceptions), they'll be fine in that department - good enough to stay with any team in the country. What really needs to improve (never though I'd be saying this about a GU team) is the offense. In just about every loss, the D was pretty good - certainly more than serviceable. Problems came with the offense sputtered, usually through lack of rebounds and, well, just flat out not being able to figure out how to put the ball in the hoop for long stretches.

MBZags
06-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Better defensively...? That was the best defense I'd seen from them in a long time.

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 11:42 AM
The one thing that grinded on me time and time again from last year was the guard play.

Bouldin and Pargo are too skilled and too smart to do some of the things they did last year. I was watching the Celtics play a while back and I really gained a respect for the way they use their guards.

What we have seen is an insane amount of over-dribbling by Pargo and Bouldin. These leads to turnovers. What Rondo does and Rivers tells him to do is dribble down the court and get the ball out of your hands and let the offense flow.

When that happens, how many open shots do you see Rondo get a game? He gets plenty but rarely takes any because he is very tenative.

Get the ball out of your hands, get it into the scorers hands and let the offense roll.

Pargo and Bouldin will be the biggest factors this season but if they are the leading scorers, we are in big trouble. It has to be Daye and Josh.

Zags-Bsee
06-17-2008, 11:59 AM
I will miss Pendo and Kuso. They added a lot of what I like about the Zags.

We do get a whole year of experience from the others, and hopefully "hungry hearts". I wonder if some of our top players will make a noticable jump like Adam did his junior year.

I use to think our team would be difficult to defend, but it seems a lot of our players are one dimensional. Opposing teams that are well coached do a pretty good job of taking away each players best option. I hope each of them work all season to be able to overcome that by March.

I think our defense will be our shining star. Hopefully as a team.

I am guessing Coach Few knows this is his year for having the talent that matches his coaching.

So there is only one question remaining. Which player is going to color his hair Pendo RED and lead like Pendo so we have everything we could ask for.

Reborn
06-17-2008, 12:11 PM
If this team of: Josh H, Jeremy P., Micah D., Matt B., Steven G., Austin D., Ira B., Robert S., Meech and Gibbs stays healthy we will be in the top 12. I'll go with #12. I would be nice to get a #3 or #4 seed in the tournament. Pargo will make 2nd team All American, the third highest ranked player wearing a Zag uniform. Josh will make 2nd team and Austin will make Honorable Mention.

Rubbadub
06-17-2008, 12:44 PM
The one thing that grinded on me time and time again from last year was the guard play.

Bouldin and Pargo are too skilled and too smart to do some of the things they did last year. I was watching the Celtics play a while back and I really gained a respect for the way they use their guards.

The Celtics use Rondo the same way any smart team whose point guard isn't one of their best players do. :)

In any other case, a point guard isn't supposed to get the ball across half court and get rid of it. He's supposed to stay in complete control of the offense. Just because he made some bad passes and ill-advised shots doesn't mean he shouldn't handle the ball as much in the half court offense. All that means is he needs to work on his passing and shot selection. Pargo had to balance being the best passer and best scorer on a team that got stagnant offensively and thus he forced things often.

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 12:55 PM
Pargo had to balance being the best passer and best scorer on a team that got stagnant offensively and thus he forced things often.


That was last year, I think next year he will not have to do this.

Which is why I would like him to adopt some Rondo skills. He doesn't have to totally shut down driving, Rondo drives when its open and shoots when its open.

I understand that Pargo was one of our best scorers and overall players last year but if he is our best scorer next year, we will struggle.

No one can argue that Austin, Josh, and even Steven need more shots. Definitley Austin and Josh MUST score more next year for this team to fully max out their potential.

Get rid of the ball fast when the drive is not there and get the offense running.

RomanZag
06-17-2008, 03:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=3446170

Or are we?

Question:

By next March, in the AP's final poll, will Gonzaga be ranked higher than 9, or will they be ranked lower than 9?

What's your prediction?


As Heytvelt goes, so go the Zags. I also think Pargo has to step it up one more notch.

I am fired up for the 2008-2009 season! Great decision by Pargo to come back.

kitzbuel
06-17-2008, 06:48 PM
As Heytvelt goes, so go the Zags. I also think Pargo has to step it up one more notch.

I am fired up for the 2008-2009 season! Great decision by Pargo to come back.
I think Austin has to be included here. Those three players have to figure out how to synchronize their play with each other and decide on how the offense will flow. I don't think a laissez faire offensive approach will work. IMO, the offense should flow through Austin. The three of them can't be fighting for offensive control, it has to be coordinated and focused, yet has to include all weapons as needed. They need to figure out how to use all the weapons available and when to use them. They get they figured out and the Zags just might be good.

MickMick
06-17-2008, 07:16 PM
I like some of the honest assessment going on here.

Jeremy and Meech will save the day with respect to bringing the ball past mid court. My biggest fear was the Zags being trapped into turnovers.

Austin Daye needs double the minutes of last year. I think if he had those minutes last season, he would not be with us. Coach Few knows that this is the year to put it all together.

The guard play needs to improve over last season. I share BroncoZag's view.

Edit: To answer BZ's question, I can see them ranked as high as #9 headed into the tournament. After the tournament? I have some doubts.

gamagin
06-17-2008, 07:37 PM
DON'T LOSE YOUR HEAD, Zags
TO GAIN A MINUTE
YOU NEED YOUR HEAD, JP
YOUR BRAINS ARE IN IT

BURMA-SHAVE

BroncoZAG615
06-17-2008, 08:54 PM
The Celtics use Rondo the same way any smart team whose point guard isn't one of their best players do. :)


I wouldn't mind Pargo looking like Rondo did tonight....:D

VinnyZag
06-17-2008, 09:44 PM
I guess I'm back to my old pessimistic self again. There will be more talent on the 2008-'09 team than we've ever seen, but after having my high expectations crushed lat year I'm taking a wait-and-see approach to this team.

I think they'll probably be ranked in the 12-18 range headed into the tournament, because they'll probably lose a couple games in an improved WCC (at San Diego, at St. Mary's), and they'll nosedive in the rankings as a result. That'd put them in the 3-6 range for postseason seeding.

We're all excited about next year's team, but there's a lot of if's involved. IF Heytvelt is healthy, IF Sacre progresses, IF ball handling improves, IF Daye becomes their go-to guy.

Scotto
06-17-2008, 09:50 PM
Let's hope the defense improves. I was told by a D1 player that the Zags were the worst defensive team he played against all year.

Zag79
06-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Let's hope the defense improves. I was told by a D1 player that the Zags were the worst defensive team he played against all year.

:lmao:

and who was this? never mind that, its a silly statement anyway.

exiledhusky
06-17-2008, 10:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=3446170

Or are we?

Question:

By next March, in the AP's final poll, will Gonzaga be ranked higher than 9, or will they be ranked lower than 9?

What's your prediction?

This guy is a complete idiot. Any fool knows the Zags with Heytfelt returning to form coupled with Pargo returning make the team an early final four favorite.

Where does this guy get his rediculous information. Calhoun has officially said in no uncetain terms, Stanley Robinson will not be a Husky this year. Further, with Robinson gone, the competition for the starting three spot comes down to Majok and Miles so how does that make either of them "backups" . Truth of the matter is, in April he had UConn over rated. Given the house cleaning and the upgraded talent brought into Storrs, I'd make them only a slight underdog in Seattle this year. Adrian a glue guy, give me a break please.

cjm720
06-18-2008, 07:48 AM
This guy is a complete idiot. Any fool knows the Zags with Heytfelt returning to form coupled with Pargo returning make the team an early final four favorite.

Where does this guy get his rediculous information. Calhoun has officially said in no uncetain terms, Stanley Robinson will not be a Husky this year. Further, with Robinson gone, the competition for the starting three spot comes down to Majok and Miles so how does that make either of them "backups" . Truth of the matter is, in April he had UConn over rated. Given the house cleaning and the upgraded talent brought into Storrs, I'd make them only a slight underdog in Seattle this year. Adrian a glue guy, give me a break please.

I know you're not talking about BZ and Andy Katz says:

"9. Gonzaga
The Zags got great news when Jeremy Pargo decided to return for his senior season Monday. Pargo's return means the Zags have a legit shot to be a top-10 team. The Zags should be an offensively charged team with Pargo, Matt Bouldin, Austin Daye, Steven Gray and Josh Heytvelt all capable of scoring 20 on a given night. If Heytvelt can once again be a dominant low-post player, the Zags will have all the pieces in place to make a deep NCAA run. They have to be a better defensive team than they were last season, but they maybe one of the most experienced teams in the West."

I'm not sure where your disconent is coming from, looks like an optimistic and realistic analysis (although I think we're a top 5 team).

GO ZAGS!

ZagMania
06-18-2008, 08:19 AM
Looking around it surely looks like the overall talent level is down next year in college basketball, or atleast among the top teams. I know there is a tendancy to think the Zags are better than they really are around here, and a group of people that try to keep this board grounded in reality, but if we stay healthy I honestly think our team has top 5 talent.

exiledhusky
06-18-2008, 11:24 AM
I know you're not talking about BZ and Andy Katz says:

"9. Gonzaga
The Zags got great news when Jeremy Pargo decided to return for his senior season Monday. Pargo's return means the Zags have a legit shot to be a top-10 team. The Zags should be an offensively charged team with Pargo, Matt Bouldin, Austin Daye, Steven Gray and Josh Heytvelt all capable of scoring 20 on a given night. If Heytvelt can once again be a dominant low-post player, the Zags will have all the pieces in place to make a deep NCAA run. They have to be a better defensive team than they were last season, but they maybe one of the most experienced teams in the West."

I'm not sure where your disconent is coming from, looks like an optimistic and realistic analysis (although I think we're a top 5 team).

GO ZAGS!

Yeah, Katz the idiot. First, if he puts all this erroneous information concerning UConn into the equation, and the way he grossly underestimates Heytfelt's potential impact, I have to ask myself if this guy has a brain at all.

That's two in the top ten that I know of that he has missed badly on, so, the question becomes, where else did he cut corners to make it fit?

Gonzaga has the guards in Pargo and Bouldin with the required skill to guide a team into the four. It has the post presence and the superstar in Heytfelt to climb onto, it has a wing in Daye who can knock down shots from 3, it has the six and seven guys in Downs and Gray to provide minuets without a severe drop off in play. That's the ingrediants of a four team.

Granted Gonzaga has two question marks in Heytfelt and Sacre. Sacre is a year older and it is not a stretch to assume he is experienced enough to keep himself out of foul trouble and become the brute force Kuso and Pendo were just too small and a tad too weak to be effective at. Heytfelt has had a long time to heal, and barring further injury there is no reason on earth to assume he will not regrain his sophmore form.

If Katz has four teams bringing more to the table than Gonzaga, then he should put it out there and paint the picture for us with some factual information. This guy is the protype for all that is wrong in jounalism, just put it out there and let it fly.

cjm720
06-18-2008, 11:58 AM
Yeah, Katz the idiot. First, if he puts all this erroneous information concerning UConn into the equation, and the way he grossly underestimates Heytfelt's potential impact, I have to ask myself if this guy has a brain at all.

That's two in the top ten that I know of that he has missed badly on, so, the question becomes, where else did he cut corners to make it fit?

Gonzaga has the guards in Pargo and Bouldin with the required skill to guide a team into the four. It has the post presence and the superstar in Heytfelt to climb onto, it has a wing in Daye who can knock down shots from 3, it has the six and seven guys in Downs and Gray to provide minuets without a severe drop off in play. That's the ingrediants of a four team.

Granted Gonzaga has two question marks in Heytfelt and Sacre. Sacre is a year older and it is not a stretch to assume he is experienced enough to keep himself out of foul trouble and become the brute force Kuso and Pendo were just too small and a tad too weak to be effective at. Heytfelt has had a long time to heal, and barring further injury there is no reason on earth to assume he will not regrain his sophmore form.

If Katz has four teams bringing more to the table than Gonzaga, then he should put it out there and paint the picture for us with some factual information. This guy is the protype for all that is wrong in jounalism, just put it out there and let it fly.


I think you have it all wrong. Read Katz's post again about Gonzaga. He notes that JH can be a 20 ppg guy and that the Zags have a legit shot as a Top 10 team. I think any Top 10 team in any year has the connotation that they're a possible Final 4 team. Katz promotes our small school more than any journalist that I can think of and does a heck of a job, IMO.

As far as his assessment of UCONN, I'd say Price's ACL injury affects the team more than losing Robinson but overall they have a good team in tact and Walker could step right in and contribute. I think they will be a very good team, likely overrated at this point especially considering they have to play a grueling Big East schedule.

GO ZAGS!!!!

exiledhusky
06-18-2008, 12:47 PM
[QUOTE=cjm720;230644]I think you have it all wrong. Read Katz's post again about Gonzaga. He notes that JH can be a 20 ppg guy and that the Zags have a legit shot as a Top 10 team. I think any Top 10 team in any year has the connotation that they're a possible Final 4 team. Katz promotes our small school more than any journalist that I can think of and does a heck of a job, IMO.

As far as his assessment of UCONN, I'd say Price's ACL injury affects the team more than losing Robinson but overall they have a good team in tact and Walker could step right in and contribute. I think they will be a very good team, likely overrated at this point especially considering they have to play a grueling Big East schedule.

GO ZAGS!!!![/QU

Losing Robinson is not a loss for UConn, other than a couple 20 point games against inferior competition he's done nothing. The wing is not only the marquee position in Storrs, it is the key component in JC's offense. With one and done talents Miles and Majok coming in to compete for that spot, Calhoun has taken the necessary steps to correct that deficiency.

Don't let Katz fool you with the Price sitution. Again, he is writing without knowledge of the roles and impact of the roster changes. Walker is the heir to the PG position. Price will play there some, but most of his time will be at the off guard position in the two headed offense. The addition of Walker changes the entire complexity of the guard rotation, and moves either Dyson or Austrie to the end of the bench. Both Dyson and Austrie are assumed by Katz to play key roles, another Katz blunder.

Should Miles lose out to Majok for the small forward positon, Miles will cut further into the third guard minutes as he is equally suited to play the off guard due to his range and ball handling being far superior to either Dyson or Austrie. It's a real joke to read Katz call Dyson a shooter, maybe he should have checked Dyson's pathetic 30% field goal percentage.

Katz, promoting you? Hardly. He has six teams ranked in front of you that shouldn't be there. I'd tell the guy thanks, but no thanks.

BobZag
06-18-2008, 01:58 PM
I'll weigh in now and just say this:

At no time last year did I see the Zags play at a #9 in the nation level. Virtually everyone and everything will have to make marked improvements for #9 or higher to be achieved. Right now, I have doubts. But I am hopeful.

One thing I do know... If this core group of Zags doesn't get it done, the make-up of the team will change fairly dramatically in 2009-10 when Pargo, Heytvelt, Downs, Ira and probably Daye are all gone, replaced with Mangisto Arop, two new bigs and another wing, along with Meech and Gibbs assuming larger roles.

thebigsmoove
06-18-2008, 02:00 PM
We're leading the poll with 26% now...YAYAYAYA!

SunDevilGolfZag
06-18-2008, 06:43 PM
* eyes glaze over - enters trance *

Number 1!!!

* wakes up *

and still no. 1!

Zaghuatanejo
06-19-2008, 09:05 PM
The one thing that grinded on me time and time again from last year was the guard play.

Bouldin and Pargo are too skilled and too smart to do some of the things they did last year. I was watching the Celtics play a while back and I really gained a respect for the way they use their guards.

What we have seen is an insane amount of over-dribbling by Pargo and Bouldin. These leads to turnovers. What Rondo does and Rivers tells him to do is dribble down the court and get the ball out of your hands and let the offense flow.

When that happens, how many open shots do you see Rondo get a game? He gets plenty but rarely takes any because he is very tenative.

Get the ball out of your hands, get it into the scorers hands and let the offense roll.

Pargo and Bouldin will be the biggest factors this season but if they are the leading scorers, we are in big trouble. It has to be Daye and Josh.

Agreed. Ball movement is key. Stop pounding the ball and work it around. Whether it is into the bigs for a post move or in-and-out to a slashing Pargo or a spotting-up Micah, the offense needs to flow smoothly. Simplify the game again. I think sometimes we're thinking too much.

MDABE80
06-19-2008, 09:26 PM
I have a feeling there will be lots of teams chasing Josh and Austin around while Jeremy's driving the key.
I have a feeling there will be lots of teams chasing Jeremy and Steven around while Josh and Austin are putting up some major pointage.

Who cleans the glass?...I'm not sure but somebody will have to get on those boards. Robert/Josh/whomever....are you reading this?;)

Frankly though, BZ's right..we didn't have much to crow about any time last year when it came a top 10 ranking. We stunk up the place except on those rare situations when the kids played to potential....and then some.