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theothegreat21
06-02-2008, 08:49 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=katz_andy

Katz does a tremendous breakdown for the 9 remaining underclassmen who played at Orlando (Ronald Steele is returning to Alabama). I can't post the whole thing because its an insider article, but here is Katz's prediction...hopefully he is correct




--Prediction: Pargo was realistic during the camp. Even though he desperately wants to be in the NBA, I got the sense that he would go back to school if he couldn't get any kind of guarantee. He likely won't. So, there is a good chance he'll return to Spokane.--

MississppiZag
06-02-2008, 08:58 AM
Seems like the consensus is that he might be leaning towards returning for his senior season. I hope so. I can see him being a potential All-American, whether 1st or 2nd team. We will be a top 15 team all yr long, IMO.

Also, Theo, was Jamont Gordon mentioned in that article?

theothegreat21
06-02-2008, 09:08 AM
Seems like the consensus is that he might be leaning towards returning for his senior season. I hope so. I can see him being a potential All-American, whether 1st or 2nd team. We will be a top 15 team all yr long, IMO.

Also, Theo, was Jamont Gordon mentioned in that article?

No he wasn't, it was primarily focused on the 10 underclassmen who participated at the Orlando pre-draft camp. And if i'm not mistaken, Gordon either was not invited, or turned down the invitation.

BobZag
06-02-2008, 10:12 AM
I had Professor Gilmore, an odd fellow who, I think, was Buddhist. But he was smart, and he applied three-line logic. For example--

Water is blue
The ocean is blue
Therefore the ocean is filled with water.

or--

Lava is hot
Lava flows over a boulder
Therefore the boulder is hot.

Okay, those are C- examples, I'm sure, but--

Turnovers cost Gonzaga many games
Pargo leads the team (and pre-draft camp) in turnovers
Therefore [fill in the rest]

Apply simple, basic logic and you'll see that Pargo must transition from being turnover-prone to efficient before Gonzaga can fully realize expectations.

dim4sum
06-02-2008, 10:20 AM
Turnovers make coaches put players on the bench,
Pargo and Bouldin make many turnovers,
Pargo and Bouldin will get more benchtime in 2008-09.

MississppiZag
06-02-2008, 10:31 AM
You are out of your mind if you think we are better off without Pargo playing his usual minutes! If Pargo leaves whoever fills in for him will make twice as many mistakes. He only averaged 3.4 turnovers last yr, and most of them were from players like Sacre that can't catch a damn thing.

JP-3.4 to/g
OJ Mayo-3.5 to/g
Jamont Gordon-4.1 to/g
Sean Singletary-3.9 to/g

Let's face it without Pargo we got no chance to move past the Sweet 16. He is our only chance to get that elusive Final 4. I know i want him playing as many minutes as possible next yr.

TimboZag
06-02-2008, 10:47 AM
My dog is a bulldog
Spike is a bulldog.
Therefore all Spikes are dogs.

It doesn't always work :D

CDC84
06-02-2008, 10:56 AM
It's not just turnovers....Jeremy needs to better his jumper and improve his free throw shooting. That's only going to happen if puts the time in to make it better.

MedZag
06-02-2008, 11:22 AM
Turnovers cost Gonzaga many games
Pargo leads the team (and pre-draft camp) in turnovers
Therefore [fill in the rest]

Apply simple, basic logic and you'll see that Pargo must transition from being turnover-prone to efficient before Gonzaga can fully realize expectations.

Have to disagree with you here Bob. Pargo definitely has much room for improvement (largely due to his high ceiling), but he was also one of the few on the team last year that demonstrated the ability to consistently play at a high level. Improvement by P will be icing on the cake, but is not as key to the team making the jump to the elite level as is the improvement of the consistency of the players around him. Matt disappeared in too many important games, Heytvelt fluctuated between being a force and a whisper within even a single game, Daye exhibited very poor decision making in his shot selection at times, Rob played like a freshman. A lot of Pargo's turnovers were the result of him having to force situations simply due to the lack of any other options due to the inconsistency of those around him.

The draft process has allowed us to focus almost singly on the flaws in Pargo's game, but it was the strengths of his game that even allowed us to have the success we did at times last season. And on the plus side, the draft process has gotten Pargo working on his game very early in the offseason.

cjm720
06-02-2008, 11:26 AM
I would add that Pargo needs to think less about making the NBA and just play his game. He needs to recognize that he's not even a top 3 scoring option on this team too. 12 ppg, 5 boards, 8 assists, and 2 turnovers per game would be nice.

Rubbadub
06-02-2008, 12:16 PM
He needs to recognize that he's not even a top 3 scoring option on this team too.

Ahm...yes he is.

ZagMania
06-02-2008, 12:20 PM
A couple of mentions of Pargo in this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvNdy5hT8bARuPMQNlRRD068vLYF?slug=jn-badcamp-053108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Mostly just says how the new rules allow players like Pargo to test the waters by having NBA teams pay for his visits without losing eligibility.

Reborn
06-02-2008, 12:48 PM
Pargo does need to really focus on ball handling decisions, and show improvement next season. And he will. Pargo is one Zag who has gotten better every single season, and if fact, a heck of a lot better. I don't worry about him at all.

It's also true that Pargo was responsible for our losses last season, and I could care less what either Tom Gilmore or BZ say about the logic of it. I doubt if Gilbore has ever seen a basketball game. EVER.....I am pretty shocked by all te neg statements about Jeremy, but it doesn't surprise me either. Pargo, was infact, our best player last year, and the only on, in my opinion, has the ability to score whenever we play really tough teams. In many, not all, he carries the team in these games. I think a lot of the turnover problems he had at GU, as has already been said, been because a couple of guys on the team have trouble catching a basketball.

In terms of next year. He will again be our best player. Maybe not leading scorer, but best player. Without him, we will, at the best, be one and done one more time in the NCAA tournament.

cjm720
06-02-2008, 12:58 PM
RUB, I was hoping more would chime in this debate because to me our scoring options in this order, IMO, should be:

Daye
Bouldin
Heytvelt
Gray/Pargo

My point is really that he doesn't need to score with this team and talent, and frankly I think we could make a deeper run in the tourney with this approach. That said, he'll want to get his stats and will likely be a top 3 scorer on the team.

Zerogame
06-02-2008, 01:18 PM
I think Downs will be more effective next year in the point’s column.

Pargo should manage the game and take over scoring when all else fails. He can keep the opposing team's defense honest with an improved outside shot. He is a dog I want in the fight!

There is no question we will see improved play by all barring any injuries. I can't wait for the ride to begin. :D

Rubbadub
06-02-2008, 01:29 PM
RUB, I was hoping more would chime in this debate because to me our scoring options in this order, IMO, should be:

Daye
Bouldin
Heytvelt
Gray/Pargo

My point is really that he doesn't need to score with this team and talent, and frankly I think we could make a deeper run in the tourney with this approach. That said, he'll want to get his stats and will likely be a top 3 scorer on the team.

I agree that a point guard's main duty should be distribution, but there were many times last year when it was pretty clear Pargo was the only one willing and/or able to attack offensively. Against elite competition, this was often pretty obvious. His turnover numbers weren't that bad considering just how much the ball was in his hands. His assist/to numbers were solid, especially in the second half of the year.

I just don't want to see him stop attacking the basket. His field goal % should only get better with time, now that he knows he needs to work on that outside shot if he wants a chance at the nba. As Heytvelt gets back into shape, Bouldin improves his consistency and Daye develops athletically, Pargo's assist numbers will go up and to's down. That drive and kick will be a real killer once Pargo's decision making on the fly and those other things start clicking. :)

BobZag
06-02-2008, 02:38 PM
• Jeremy Pargo, Jr., Gonzaga: Pargo is a great athlete but turns the ball over too much and does not shoot it well enough to stay in the draft. He will make the league, but to get drafted he must continue to develop his range and pure point skills.

Shooting 1000 shots per day + Concentrate on decision-making = A vastly improved Pargo who could be a 1st-rounder in 2009.

scrooner
06-02-2008, 03:11 PM
He must also improve his offense as time is expiring. 4 quarters in the NBA with the clock ticking down, compared to 2 halves in college. Twice as many opportunites to hold the ball for the last shot, as long as you don't wait too long to make your move.

Air Force Zag
06-02-2008, 03:30 PM
This will be a very positive experience for Jeremy in the long run. Either he will get a guarantee and realize his dream now (not likely this year, from the prevailing opinions) or he will get much needed feedback on what he needs to do to fully realize his NBA potential. Win-win.

Doesn't hurt that he will get feedback from someone outside the program. Growing up, even though my dad was right in almost everything he told me, often I had to hear it from someone outside the family for it to really sink in. I have to believe its like that here too. And that feedback sounds like it will be to improve areas that will greatly help the Zags next season. All good.

MedZag
06-02-2008, 06:55 PM
RUB, I was hoping more would chime in this debate because to me our scoring options in this order, IMO, should be:

Daye
Bouldin
Heytvelt
Gray/Pargo

My point is really that he doesn't need to score with this team and talent, and frankly I think we could make a deeper run in the tourney with this approach. That said, he'll want to get his stats and will likely be a top 3 scorer on the team.

Echo Rub's thoughts. Pargo has a fine line to walk. If he stays aggressive and scores, he forces the opposing D to cheat the lane which affords a lot more room for our other guys to work in. That can't happen unless the other team sees Pargo as a threat to score. But at the same time, a pg's responsibility is to ditribute, and he's got a lot of offensive power to distribute to.

MickMick
06-03-2008, 04:59 AM
• Jeremy Pargo, Jr., Gonzaga: Pargo is a great athlete but turns the ball over too much and does not shoot it well enough to stay in the draft. He will make the league, but to get drafted he must continue to develop his range and pure point skills.

Shooting 1000 shots per day + Concentrate on decision-making = A vastly improved Pargo who could be a 1st-rounder in 2009.


I agree with this post more than any other in the thread.

applezag
06-03-2008, 05:41 AM
Up to this point I have defended Pargo's pursuit of an NBA career in the coming year by saying that it really couldn't hurt anything for him to do what he is doing. He will learn what he needs to work on, or he will prove that he is a first rounder and go--in which case he probably should go.

I just had another thought on this after reading Bob's quote of whoever analyzed Pargo's game. Has Pargo learned anything he shouldn't have already known? Did we not all know that he is a great athlete, needs to work on his shot, turns it over too much, etc.? I'm not sure this experience has been all that eye-opening.

That being said, has he had the time to put up 1000 shots a day? Has all this improved his game or just proved his game? I really don't know, but wonder if the time would have been better spent in the gym at GU working on the skills he needs to improve, and already knew he needed to improve before the auditions began.

haMarlin
06-03-2008, 06:07 AM
If nothing else, the camp should reaffirm to Jeremy what everyone else tells him he needs to work on. I believe that is a good thing for him. He will come out of this as a more humble, focused player; ready to work to get what he wants.

Draft Camp = Good for Pargo:D = Good for Zags:D