What Applies Here to the 08-09 Zags?

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  • BobZag
    Dark Lord of the Zag
    • Jan 2007
    • 15379

    What Applies Here to the 08-09 Zags?

    By Doug Gottleib--


    If this past year told us anything, it is that while stars come and go in college hoops, national championships are built with solid, consistent play at all positions and the occasional young star that puts a team over the top.



    Both Memphis and Kansas are worthy references in terms of what it takes to win a championship. After all, Memphis was one 3-point shot away from winning the whole ball of wax. But the Tigers failed, and so we will look at both teams as a litmus test for our 2009 champion.



    With so many players yet to determine their future, it is really difficult to ascertain exactly who will have the look of a national title contender. But we can, with Memphis and Kansas from this season and the past couple of years as a guide, look at what makes a champion in the 21st century.


    [+] EnlargeAP Photo/Steve Nesius

    Jim Calhoun's Huskies should have an experienced, quick backcourt to balance a talented frontcourt next season.

    First, you must have depth of talent that has been through the battles. With Florida's 2006 championship as the exception, other recent title teams have all been fairly veteran-based teams with players who are stars at the college level and are looked at as solid future professionals with a couple of rare exceptions.



    UConn may have the closest similarity to this year's Kansas team in terms of depth and quality of talent. Like KU, UConn will have a star coming off a spring ACL tear (Brandon Rush for Kansas) in A.J. Price. Like Kansas, UConn will have three ultra-quick guards who all have a different skill set. Whereas KU threw out Sherron Collins, Russell Robinson and Mario Chalmers, UConn brings Jerome Dyson, Doug Wiggins and newcomer Kemba Walker, along with the recovering Price, to load up its backcourt. Dyson is the shooter, Wiggins the midrange scorer and Walker is the ultra-quick point guard who can make it all work. Upon Price's return, UConn will have the best backcourt depth in the land and experience to boot. There is a chance Wiggins decides to transfer, and if so the Russell Robinson of this group would be Craig Austrie, who can defend and needs little or no "love" at the offensive end. With an NBA-level talent in Stanley Robinson at the small forward and the always solid but a bit undersized Jeff Adrien at the block and Gavin Edwards as his backup, UConn will have everything they need if Hasheem Thabeet stays in school for one more year.



    Having pros are a nice bonus for teams hoping to push for a title. In fact, almost every champion over the past 20 years has actually featured three eventual NBA first-round drafts picks. Florida's two championship teams had Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah and Al Horford. North Carolina '05 had Sean May, Rashad McCants, Marvin Williams and Raymond Felton. Connecticut '04 had Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.



    So if UCLA's Kevin Love, UNC's Tyler Hansbrough, UConn's Thabeet or Texas' D.J. Augustin were to return, their teams would have three potential first-round draft picks.



    This year's Memphis-Kansas championship matchup also proved that the uberelite in the college game possess size, athleticism and shot-making abilities. It is obvious that the combined speed of KU's Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson, Collins and Memphis' Derrick Rose, Antonio Anderson and Chris Douglas-Roberts may have been the fastest and quickest Final Four ever.



    This will not change. Next year, UNC could have that speed and athleticism with Lawson, and UCLA will have Collison (if he returns) and incoming freshmen Jrue Holiday, Jerime Anderson and Malcolm Lee.


    [+] EnlargeKevin C. Cox/Getty Images

    If Tyler Smith returns to Tennessee, the Vols will again have one of the most athletic teams in the country. But they'll still be missing a point guard and a go-to post player.

    In terms of overall team speed, Tennessee may be hard to beat in that regard as well. The Vols will bring in Scotty Hopson and will return Ramar Smith and possibly Tyler Smith. But they may not get over the hump as they are still searching for a back-to-the-basket threat and true point guard.



    And while there is always a need for guard play, don't underestimate the need for low-post defense, rebounding and scoring. Memphis' Joey Dorsey fits all those categories, as did Kansas' Darnell Jackson and Sasha Kaun



    Next season, North Carolina could be in great shape with Deon Thompson fitting this role, especially if Hansbrough returns. UConn could get the same out of Jeff Adrien. And if Love comes back, UCLA would have Luc Richard Mbah a Moute and Alfred Aboya to give the Bruins' experience in the post.



    Past tourney success seems to bode well for teams with a sizeable number of returning players. Although Florida won the title without that experience in 2006, Duke ('01), Maryland ('02), UNC ('05) and Florida ('07) had all been through the wars of the Dance the season before winning it all. Memphis and Kansas were also very close to the Final Four last year.



    Of this year's Elite Eight teams, Xavier will lose three starters for the third straight year. And Texas, Louisville and Davidson lose a great deal as well.



    It stands to reason that UNC, in the Final Four this year, would be the title favorite next year. Hansbrough has a chance to hold every UNC record if he stays in school, and his stock in the league will be the same regardless. Lawson's stock is low right now, and Wayne Ellington is streaky as a shooter. If two of those three Heels come back, plus the addition of recruits Ed Davis, Tyler Zeller and Larry Drew for depth, they will look like preseason favorites to win the title. Their defensive issues could be lessened by a deeper bench. Bobby Frasor, Drew, Danny Green and Lawson should be able to make enough perimeter shots if and when Ellington goes cold. And, don't forget that the blowout loss to Kansas in the Final Four should be a motivating factor.



    I have to give UNC -- based on athleticism, shot-making, likely returning players, talent and coaching -- a slight edge over UCLA to be the most likely team to "pull a Kansas" in '09.
    The Kennel: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."
  • Birddog
    Zag for Life
    • Feb 2007
    • 7735

    #2
    What Gottlieb didn't mention in the article but what he did say on a local broadcast the day after the game was, "I was blown away with the size, length, quickness and overall speed of the players on the court". He went on to say he was just AMAZED at their athletic ability, and remember, he played at a high level himself and for about 3 years in the Euro leagues.

    I would have to say we have some real positives coming into this next season, but we also have some HUGE question marks, specifically a BIG, back to the basket player that can rebound and score in the 10/10 range. Sacre will have to make some very big strides to be that kind of player IMO, but it could happen.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    Comment

    • roxdoc
      Zag for Life
      • Feb 2007
      • 1464

      #3
      Right on BD. The low post is the critical question mark for next year's team. Rob certainly has the potential. I would go so far as to say it isn't "if" but "when" we will see it. Just hopin and prayin that he can make some big strides this off season. GO ROB!!

      Comment

      • BobZag
        Dark Lord of the Zag
        • Jan 2007
        • 15379

        #4
        I doubt Gonzaga will ever have the numerous studs that the "uberelite" have. The Zags rely more on skill and execution. A smaller margin for error.
        The Kennel: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

        Comment

        • btzag
          Bleeds GU Blue
          • Feb 2007
          • 909

          #5
          BZ you are right on about the zags never, ever able to have that talent and athleticism on the court. Watching that game it was hard to admit but those teams were so athletic, so big, so fast... No way do we ever have teams like that.

          On the other end though not always do the two most athletic teams make the final which happened this year. Usually a team that has talent + decent athleticism + execution + skill will make the final and definitely the Final Four. UCLA was a team that had good athletes, good skill, and good execution but even comparing them to the losing team there is no way that athletically Collison could match Rose or Mbah Moute against CDR or even Love matched with Dorsey.

          So I do think that GU can still make a Final Four in the near future if the players land just right and Few keeps recruiting at a high level. The year with Morrison and Batista was in my opinion one of those years where the players landed right and we had a team that COULD have made a Final Four. But like BZ said, the margin of error is very tight and we all know it did not happen.

          Just think if Richards would have nailed that 3 to end the game against Kansas....

          Comment

          • MickMick
            Zag for Life
            • Apr 2007
            • 6541

            #6
            If the Zags can't do it with pure athleticism and skill....then they must do it with emotion and IQ. I look forward to improvement in both areas.
            I miss Mike Hart

            Comment

            • MDABE80
              Zag for Life
              • Feb 2007
              • 11555

              #7
              To have the type of talent on display in this year's Final Four, a team ( well this year every team it seemed) would have to be loaded with kids heading toward the NBA. Out Zags began the season with 4 kids who might have developed into NBA players. It didn't happen. We still have the same kids and a bit more talent with Gray developing so quickly.

              We've never had the existing talent we have now on one team. I keep getting heartbroken by this group of kids in that they just haven't gelled. Now that the smoke has pretty much cleared for the year, it's good to know we have tremendous talent coming back.

              As good as any team? If you asked the scribes, they'd just laugh. Not me. Good health, lots of practice, some luck...I still say we can get there. Whether it's refinements of the system or what, I don't know. The on the court talent is here though. We'll see. I do know that it'll take a lot more than high flyin dunks. Defense and fundamentals seem to win out.

              Comment

              • MickMick
                Zag for Life
                • Apr 2007
                • 6541

                #8
                Originally posted by MDABE80 View Post
                To have the type of talent on display in this year's Final Four, a team ( well this year every team it seemed) would have to be loaded with kids heading toward the NBA. Out Zags began the season with 4 kids who might have developed into NBA players. It didn't happen. We still have the same kids and a bit more talent with Gray developing so quickly.
                We have seen the flashes of Jeremy and Josh, but we just have not seen the consistent great play. I mean really great play. They are terrific players that really need to bring it every night.

                I honestly believe that the Zags can beat anyone if Josh and Jeremy are at the top of their game at the same time. The UNC, Stanford, and Texas games from two years ago are prime examples of that.


                It never really materialized this year. I still stand by the statement I have said all year...This team will only go as far as Jeremy (and I'll include Josh as well) takes them. Most recently, they didn't get the Zags past a hot Davidson team.
                I miss Mike Hart

                Comment

                • exiledhusky
                  Bulldog Fan
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 85

                  #9
                  Guess no one told Doug Gottleib, Thabeet is good as gone and Calhoun is dismantling the team. Expect five departures, Wiggins, Thabeet, Robinson, Beverly and Kelly.

                  Comment

                  • exiledhusky
                    Bulldog Fan
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 85

                    #10
                    Originally posted by exiledhusky View Post
                    Guess no one told Doug Gottleib, Thabeet is good as gone and Calhoun is dismantling the team. Expect five departures, Wiggins, Thabeet, Robinson, Beverly and Kelly.

                    Going a little bit further with that. Small wonder I have such disdain for writers, such as Gottleib that just write stuff and don't have a clue what they are talking about.

                    UConn will have a completely different look next year.

                    Point Guard - Kembra Walker, NYC McD hamburger and all that goes with that.

                    Shooting Guard - Assuming he regains his mobility, A J Price, other wise it is Haralson.

                    Third Guard in the rotation - Scottie Haralson, a four star guy who is being brought in to shoot threes. Four stars don't sign without the promise of playing time, nor does Calhoun sign one as a practice only player.

                    Sliding down the rotation, Jerome Dyson, that's if JC allows him to stay with the team. He's on very thin ice.

                    Sliding into oblivion, Craig Austrie.

                    Small Forward, Nate Miles who has commited and just needs a little more doctor on the transcripts. Hey, they got Thabeet eligible, they'll pull it off.

                    Off the team, or at best the the second backup behind Miles and Dyson at the two / three swingman position, Robinson.

                    Gone is Thabeet- His mother lives in poverty in Kenya, and he wants desperately to provide for her. NBA gurus are saying he is late lottery to mid twenties first round. Maybe Gottlieb should give one good reason Tahbeet would stay.


                    Center- Ater Majok, a 6-10 center from Sudan via Australia who is expected to make an immeadiate impact.

                    So they have, Walker, Price, Miles, Adrian and Majok as the starting five next year. Long way from what the nitwit author is talking about.

                    Comment

                    • exiledhusky
                      Bulldog Fan
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 85

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MickMick View Post
                      We have seen the flashes of Jeremy and Josh, but we just have not seen the consistent great play. I mean really great play. They are terrific players that really need to bring it every night.

                      I honestly believe that the Zags can beat anyone if Josh and Jeremy are at the top of their game at the same time. The UNC, Stanford, and Texas games from two years ago are prime examples of that.


                      It never really materialized this year. I still stand by the statement I have said all year...This team will only go as far as Jeremy (and I'll include Josh as well) takes them. Most recently, they didn't get the Zags past a hot Davidson team.
                      It should be obvious to anyone paying attention, what hurt Pargo last year was the absence of Heytfelt. Does anyone really believe he was back? A summer of conditioning and playing should help him regain dominance.

                      Without a guy drawing a double when the ball goes into the post, you don't beat the heavyweights.

                      Josh re-establishing himself as a dominant post player will elevate JP to 1st team all american.

                      Comment

                      • applezag
                        Kennel Club
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 328

                        #12
                        Originally posted by exiledhusky View Post
                        Josh re-establishing himself as a dominant post player will elevate JP to 1st team all american.
                        Pargo's number one objective has to be his jumper. For him to have the success he has had getting by defenders when they are still daring him to shoot is pretty impressive. If they have to honor his outside shot, he will get to the hoop any time he wants.

                        There are a lot of folks here that believe this is a stretch that will never happen, despite years of trying. Their belief is that "that's just not his game". I am not one of those. I think this needs to happen for GU to realize its potential next year. There are plenty of perimeter threats, Josh is not needed out there. He needs to get twice as aggressive and develop his left hand. It might be easier to do that when completely healed. Another big factor inside will be the development of Sacre.

                        Comment

                        • BobZag
                          Dark Lord of the Zag
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 15379

                          #13
                          CDC mentioned it, and I totally agree... Jeremy should be shooting 1000 treys per day this offseason. (And maybe an electrical shock for every turnover?) lol

                          But I've noticed that 99% of the time, for whatever reason, as Bouldin goes Gonzaga goes. Anyone else notice? When Matt struggles, Gonzaga usually loses.

                          Josh's ankle was never fully healed. Notice he played his best after long layoffs where the ankle could rest? We all must hope it heals 100% between now and November. Pretty sure it will before that.
                          The Kennel: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

                          Comment

                          • MickMick
                            Zag for Life
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 6541

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BobZag View Post
                            But I've noticed that 99% of the time, for whatever reason, as Bouldin goes Gonzaga goes. Anyone else notice? When Matt struggles, Gonzaga usually loses.
                            I might agree, but so many are quick to anoint Jeremy as All-World. Yes....I have bought into his game. But if we are going to designate him as our star player, he better take some credit for the losses as well as the wins.

                            We can't always say we win because of Jeremy and lose because of Matt. If Jeremy truly is the star of this team, then he has to bear the brunt of the burden.....otherwise he isn't the star.

                            This team will go as far ar Jeremy (the star) takes them. Does anyone really feel that way about Matt?
                            I miss Mike Hart

                            Comment

                            • exiledhusky
                              Bulldog Fan
                              • Nov 2007
                              • 85

                              #15
                              Originally posted by MickMick View Post
                              I might agree, but so many are quick to anoint Jeremy as All-World. Yes....I have bought into his game. But if we are going to designate him as our star player, he better take some credit for the losses as well as the wins.

                              We can't always say we win because of Jeremy and lose because of Matt. If Jeremy truly is the star of this team, then he has to bear the brunt of the burden.....otherwise he isn't the star.

                              This team will go as far ar Jeremy (the star) takes them. Does anyone really feel that way about Matt?

                              You are 100% correct, any team will go only as far as the PG takes them. Before any of that takes place, he must have the tools to work with. Matt Bouldin is a key piece in the tool box.

                              Comment

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