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View Full Version : Georgetown MUST, MUST chuck the Princeton Offense



CDC84
03-23-2008, 01:23 PM
Roy Hibbert, the most physically imposing and skilled big man in college basketball this side of Kevin Love, fouls out today with 6 points. 6 freaking points!

If he played for Gonzaga this year, Hibbert would've averaged 20 points per game, minimum. He would've received touches every single time down the floor. He's 7-2, strong as an ox, and is very skilled going with either hand. He's also a very good passer out of double teams.

But because of the Princeton Style offense - an offense that is meant for teams with skilled players who need to find a way to compete against more athletic and physically imposing teams - Hibbert got few touches and was never allowed to consistently impose his will on the game.

And what gets me is that Thompson uses this offense, and yet is still able to get big time recruits, even though this system does not elevate the play of super talented players. As a result, you will see Hibbert severely undervalued at this year's NBA draft. He is actually better this year than he was last year, but G'Town's offensive system never brought out the best in him.

In the elite 8 last year, when G'Town got so far behind UNC that he had to toss the offense and let his guys play, it's no secret why they were able to come back from a huge margin and go to the final 4. He finally let loose the immense talent on his roster.

I will say it now, and I will say it again......unless Georgetown chucks the Princeton style offense, they will never EVER win a national championship until Thompson leaves the program and they get someone in there that knows how to properly to take advantage of their talent.

Thompson is a great recruiter, and he develops players well, but he is wasting an opportunity. I'm not saying that certain plays from the Princeton offense aren't good to run....they even get run in the NBA....but it just cannot be the foundation of a team that has really talented, athletic players on it. It prevents those players from improvising and imposing their will on teams with less talent.

Rant over.

beatProgram
03-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Nice thinly-veiled social experiment.

BobZag
03-23-2008, 01:47 PM
I hope Gtown keeps their offense. I'm not much of a fan of them. ;)

cbbfanatic
03-23-2008, 02:22 PM
hibbert is not nearly as good as you make him out to be. he can be game planned out of games far too easily

westcoasthoops101
03-23-2008, 02:39 PM
CDC- I completely agree. Georgetown has a ton of great athletes, but they don't look nearly as good when they're forced to play in that offense. JT III is a good coach, but I think that offense keeps them down.

Asotin
03-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Hibert may be the most overrated bigman in all of college hoops. In fact I can think of 8 bigmen off the top of my head, on the west coast alone, that are more skilled than Hibert. Seriously, other than being tall, what basketball skill does he posses in abundance? Along with his limited skill set he also seems to lack a motor or desire.

CDC84
03-23-2008, 03:44 PM
How many G'Town games have you watched? For one thing, he has a beautiful hook shot that he can deliver with either hand, and he has moves coming off his left and right shoulder. In the last game that took place between Louisville and G'Town, he put a couple of "you will not stop me" moves on David Padgett that very, very few NBA players could guard.

Problem is, you have to watch a lot of G'Town games to be able to see this, because Thompson's system doesn't showcase anything he can do. If Hibbert played for Gonzaga, North Carolina or any system that would actually use him, it would be evident to everyone.

Yes, there are 6-8 type bigs throughout the country that probably have a larger array of skills due to their athleticism and ability to face up people, but you see very, very few 7-2 guys with Hibbert's skills. The only area where he is lacking is that he isn't a dynamic athlete.

I think he is going to be a really good starting center in the NBA for somebody who is wise enough to draft him.

deathchina
03-23-2008, 03:59 PM
"In fact I can think of 8 bigmen off the top of my head, on the west coast alone, that are more skilled than Hibert."

I'd love to hear who these 8 guys are.

cbbfanatic
03-23-2008, 04:05 PM
How many G'Town games have you watched? For one thing, he has a beautiful hook shot that he can deliver with either hand, and he has moves coming off his left and right shoulder. In the last game that took place between Louisville and G'Town, he put a couple of "you will not stop me" moves on David Padgett that very, very few NBA players could guard.

Problem is, you have to watch a lot of G'Town games to be able to see this, because Thompson's system doesn't showcase anything he can do. If Hibbert played for Gonzaga, North Carolina or any system that would actually use him, it would be evident to everyone.

Yes, there are 6-8 type bigs throughout the country that probably have a larger array of skills due to their athleticism and ability to face up people, but you see very, very few 7-2 guys with Hibbert's skills. The only area where he is lacking is that he isn't a dynamic athlete.

I think he is going to be a really good starting center in the NBA for somebody who is wise enough to draft him.

i've seen hibbert and gtown play COUNTLESS times over the last few years, including 4 times in person, and i stand by him being way overrated.

deathchina
03-23-2008, 05:08 PM
When did my reputation get so red? I was solidly in the green a couple hours ago.

Asotin
03-23-2008, 06:36 PM
"I'd love to hear who these 8 guys are."

Ok, heck I will keep in simple and only name Pac-10 bigs (tho I don't think he would be the best big in the WCC or Mountain West either). Love, B. Lopez, R. Lopez, Anderson, Gibson, Brockman, Hardin and Pendergraph. Heck I would even take Hill from AZ and Baynes over Hibert, and yes I have watched Hibert play 10 times or so this year and I have watched all those guys I listed at least that many times also.

Hiberts stats were so underwhelming it is amazing. Hibert only averaged 13.6 points and 6.5 rebounds (and that includes their weak non-conf opponents) in a league that, as shown so far in the tournament, is seriously lacking in good big men to "challange" him. Seriously only 6.5 rebounds a game at 7'2" in a league where he towered over almost everyone?

Again I ask: What does Hibert do well besides be 7'2"? By well I mean things that are above average?

He will get eaten alive by the tons of 6'-10" to 7' ATHLETIC bigs in the NBA. Heck Ronny would eat him alive and he isn't a top 30 big in the NBA.

BroncoZAG615
03-23-2008, 06:56 PM
First, watch Hibbert as a freshman to a senior. Heck watch him from last year to this year. His quickness, post moves have improved so much.

The problem before the post is hijacked by calling Hibbert overrated is the fact that Georgetown and Jonathon Wallace pass to Hibbert to start their offense very rarely. Asotin...you're right he is 7' 2''. And he has lost so much weight over the years and his quick post moves are so pure, especially his hook. I take it you didn't watch the Pitt game on the Big East tourney or you would have seen that. He got 17 against Blair and Young from Pitt, although not tall they do not make an easy task of entering the post and getting easy shots.

Georgetown would have been the best team all year if they had gone to Hibbert more. They would have 5 minute stretches where they would not go to him even though he really does get excellent position.

He is only overrated because the system he plays in kills him, as it will hurt Greg Monroe when he goes there. No individual player shines there because their is no ability for an individual big game. They suffered from a similar syndrome as us where we didn't know who would hit the big shot for us and when. Wallace can, Summers can, Hibbert can, even their freshman can but it was never consistent...unless they gon bailed out by the refs.

Also, there is no chance 3-5 of those guys on your list are not as good as Hibbert. The fact that Robin Lopez is listed is laughable.

applezag
03-23-2008, 08:08 PM
Agreed CDC. He is way too much of a weapon to be used that way. I really like a lot of what the Princeton offense does and wouldn't say they should scrap it, but they need to at least adapt it to having a very high-percentage option in the post. Wooden scrapped his offense when Lew Alcindor came along. I'm not saying Hibbert is that dominant, but it is an example of a great coach adapting to a unique talent. And, as I've said before, post players improve quickly with more touches.

CDC84
03-23-2008, 08:55 PM
I really wish to emphasize, if I failed to do so in my original post, that I think Thompson III is really good coach. I'm serious. Not only does he recruit and develop players (Patrick Ewing Jr. is so much better than he was at IU), but his teams are always near the top in defensive field goal percentage. He has also revitalized that program...even if part of it is his name recognition. But I just think he needs to reinvent himself a bit here. I trust his ability to come up with a better offense to bring out the best in his talent. And it's not just his post players....the offense also stifled Jerry Green and the matchup advantage he presented to Ohio State in last year's national semifinals.