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CDC84
03-10-2008, 08:41 AM
I saw two flops last night during the games that weren’t ruled as charges where the offensive player ended up commiting a traveling violation due to the defender being on the floor and impeding the forward progress of the offensive player’s drive toward the basket. The offensive player understandly reacted with surprise that a foul wasn’t called, but his forward momentum going toward the basket led him right into the defender lying on the floor, and in order to avoid stepping on the player and injuring his ankle (or worse), he shuffled his feet to avoid the defender on the floor.

This is getting out of control folks.

This TV viewer is getting sick and tired of all the flopping that’s going on in WCC games of late. And it’s just getting worse and worse. It’s really ruining the beauty of the game for me in terms of its aesthetics. It interrupts game flow, and is a constant distraction for game officials who should really be paying attention to other things that are taking place on the court. And the Zags are as guilty of it as anybody else. I mean, the refs are calling charges most of the time (even when there is little contact), so defenders are taking advantage of it. I understand the argument that flopping is a smart play in such circumstances.

But it doesn't mean that I have to like it as a TV viewer or a fan in the stands.

The game is about the fans as much as it is anyone else, and from a fan’s perspective, it's an increasing trend that’s just bad for the game.

If I want to see acting, I can go to the movies or the local theater company……….basketball is supposed to be about something else.

Rant over.

kitzbuel
03-10-2008, 08:50 AM
CDC, do you know if this was a point of emphasis with refs this year? I have seen it in plenty of games other than WCC. It seems that teams have figured this out and are now trying to work the system to get the calls.

CDC84
03-10-2008, 08:56 AM
It's not a point of emphasis with the refs, but ever since that Gonzaga at Portland game, which had more flopping in it than any game I've seen this season, it just seems that every WCC team has caught on to the fact that you'll be rewarded for your acting accomplishments in WCC games. It's like an infection that started on a limb but is now devastating the whole body.

I think you will see less of it come NCAA tournament time.

Gonzdb8
03-10-2008, 08:58 AM
I saw two flops last night during the games that werenít ruled as charges where the offensive player ended up commiting a traveling violation due to the defender being on the floor and impeding the forward progress of the offensive playerís drive toward the basket. The offensive player understandly reacted with surprise that a foul wasnít called, but his forward momentum going toward the basket led him right into the defender lying on the floor, and in order to avoid stepping on the player and injuring his ankle (or worse), he shuffled his feet to avoid the defender on the floor.

This is getting out of control folks.

This TV viewer is getting sick and tired of all the flopping thatís going on in WCC games of late. And itís just getting worse and worse. Itís really ruining the beauty of the game for me in terms of its aesthetics. It interrupts game flow, and is a constant distraction for game officials who should really be paying attention to other things that are taking place on the court. And the Zags are as guilty of it as anybody else. I mean, the refs are calling charges most of the time (even when there is little contact), so defenders are taking advantage of it. I understand the argument that flopping is a smart play in such circumstances.

But it doesn't mean that I have to like it as a TV viewer or a fan in the stands.

The game is about the fans as much as it is anyone else, and from a fanís perspective, it's an increasing trend thatís just bad for the game.

If I want to see acting, I can go to the movies or the local theater companyÖÖÖ.basketball is supposed to be about something else.

Rant over.

well said CDC. it does seem that flopping has become more prevelant in the WCC than other conferences. not sure if its unique to our conference although it does seem that way. could just be that i watch a higher % of WCC games than other conferences so i see it more often. regardless, would love to see an end to the flopping era.

Unbiased
03-10-2008, 09:06 AM
CDC right on!

I would take it one thought further.

Santa Clara tried so many theatrical flops early in the game the Refs became wary of their antics. (They remind me of UCLA - where did Keating come from) I personally think it influences the refs - hence the obvious charge by Pargo with four seconds left called the other way.

There was a Zag free throw attempt late in the first half when Downs tried to run around the Santa Clara player to get position. He did. The Santa Clara player puts his arm on Downs and does a great theatrical flop. The ref just looked at him and let the play continue.

FuManShoes
03-10-2008, 09:35 AM
Agree whole-heartedly with the aesthetics issue. Poorlly officiated games just aren't that fun to watch. I was at the Portland game. Horrible. No flow whatsoever. Same with last night's game. Was the USD-St. Mary's game officiated by the same crew? It seemed they let those guys play. I was reading some comments from the head of Pac-10 officials after the first UCLA travesty. To paraphrase, he said something like, "I don't care if you make a game-changing call at a critical moment, but it better be a 'strong' call. That wasn't a strong call." Whatever that means. I suppose it's a matter of decisiveness and purpose. Too many of these WCC calls serve no purpose and come back to haunt officials who now must decide if they'll keep blowing the whistle on flops or do a 180 and look like inconsistent boobs. They could avoid the whole mess by swallowing the damn whistle instead of trying to set the tone.

zag944
03-10-2008, 09:45 AM
In general I have really loved the foreign influx into the game of basketball over the last 15 years or so, be it in the NBA, college, or giving us strong competition internationally. It reminds us that despite all the data we compile on atletiscm and upside that good old shooting and teamwork still win just as many games as it always did.
That said, a lot of flopping has come with the territory. I always wondered why until I watched a dozen games or so in the last World Cup. There's a reason why soccer has never truly caught on in America...

tobizag
03-10-2008, 09:49 AM
another consequence of the flopping is that the zags are becoming less agressive. instead of going strong to the hole, we're pulling up on fast breaks, and trying weak shots for 8 feet out.

this is true in other conferences as well. duke flops so much against unc that the heels were pulling up on their fast breaks as well. you know when north carolina isn't going for a slam dunk on a fast break, something isn't right.

siliconzag
03-10-2008, 11:19 AM
Theatrics got to be such a big part of international soccer that they now have a penalty for acting. If there is too much acting or faking of fouls (flopping is quite analagous to tumbling from phantom infractions in soccer), the player can be carded. They are not consistent on calling this infraction mind you. The French whined that the Italians were the biggest fakers. However they were outdone by the French in the last world cup. Just having the possibility of calling a technical foul on over active faking would probably reduce it. Does anybody remember the most famous WCC flop? In my opinion it was none other than Dan Dickau against Pepp. Does anybody else remember the shoving and pushing after that? Fortunately it was the last time we had to deal much with those guys being a threat.

I am in favor of adopting a policy similar to soccer. If you fake, you get a T.

Sili

Zag365
03-10-2008, 11:26 AM
WCC referees are voting members of the Academy Awards -- sometimes they get confused as to what they are voting on.

CDC84
03-10-2008, 11:31 AM
It's even starting to get on his nerves:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=377818


The referees are struggling. Has there ever been a season in which it seemed so many games were decided by so many iffy calls? UCLA got a season's worth of last-second good fortune over the weekend, which helped the Bruins to beat both Stanford and California. Georgetown has had that magic throughout the Big East season. Officials appear less capable than ever of distinguishing between all the wanna-be Daniel Day Lewises flopping to draw charges and genuine efforts to defend the basket. They continue to treat players attempting drives as though they have no business in the lane. They allow defenders to punish these intrusions however they wish. Officiating needs serious help, and continuing to put retired officials in charge of the cleanup is not going to get it done. They keep making all these debatable decisions, so they must believe there's nothing wrong.

SteeleMan
03-10-2008, 11:34 AM
flop for the ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A

here's another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM&feature=related

VinnyZag
03-10-2008, 12:06 PM
Theatrics got to be such a big part of international soccer that they now have a penalty for acting.

That's a great point. I've often argued with my friends that this is an outgrowth of similar plays in soccer and the growth of basketball popularity in soccer-mad Europe. So blame soccer -- and not just because that's fun to say, although it is.

Rangerzag
03-10-2008, 03:21 PM
http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=183334#post183334

How bout at the 11:00 min mark of the first when Bryant flops as the result of an wondering arm from Daye. The exiting commish is being interviewed and can't stifle the "Oh, my" then recovers before he says anything more than, "Well, we all played the game. Ya just have to play through it"

It was that bad both ways all night.

http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?p=184112#post184112

Rats, I was hoping for another view of Austin brutalizing "Cannoball Belly Flop" Bryant.


Other than that minor detail, these are very nicely done. Thanks for bothering.

..

You know it is gettin' really bad when Austin, the guy whose biggest knock is his noodle thin frame gets called for bangin' "Big Country-Belly Flop-Cannon Ball" Bryant on his can with such ease and aplomb. Austin wasn't even wearnin' a cape.

...