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View Full Version : Daye... 7 minutes??? Please help???



TM27
02-25-2008, 09:29 PM
I dont care for DRAMA...respond to this as if we were sharing a beverage in the bar (which means dont say something like "love it or leave it").

Why does Daye not play more?

I must be nuts because when Daye is in I see our offense flow much smoother. He is a scorer, and an excellent passer, but first and foremost a scorer. Our offense often stalls (although i will say it is light years ahead of where it was a month ago) which is why I would think a watered down AMMO ..... AUSTIN DAYE is a neccesity for this team. This team is a top 20 team when we take advantage of the mismatch. Matt is a matchup nightmare at the 2, Ausitn is a matchup nightmare at the 3, Pargo's ability to post up at the 1 is a nightmare, Pendos ability to step out and hit the 3 while playing the 4 is a matchup problem!!!! Yet we start matt at the 3 which neutralizes our advantage, and Steven at the 2???? No comprendo nada????

My best guess: Steven will be the PG next year and Few is getting him as much playing time as possible?????? I dont really think this is the GU thought process, but I dont understand why this sharpshooting frosh who can spell at the 1,2, and 3 does not come off the bench. I normally wouldnt have a problem with Daye coming off the bench but 7 minutes is "fashion no no". Is it a commitment to the D side of the ball, even if it sacrifices potential of our O? Is Daye that much of a liability on the D side? I watch and I understand defensive sets, and how to slap the floor, and I can see when Austin is out of position, but I must not REALLY see it because I see others out of position too?

help me to see the breakdown in my linear thinking???

JohnOGU
02-25-2008, 09:33 PM
Your right, the offense does gel a lot better, but in times of minor to major crisis with our starters, we still need a spark off the bench, and he seems to do the best job in accomplishing that.

TM27
02-25-2008, 09:39 PM
I guess I disagree....because you dont normally play your biggest offensive threat as your 7th man off the bench? Plus no reason why the Downs/Gray combo cannot provide that spark...maybe even more so than Daye?

MedZag
02-25-2008, 09:42 PM
You see Daye on the floor tonight? Getting boxed out on the boards and picking up fouls left and right (some not justified, but thats another discussion).

There just wasn't a fit for him on the floor tonight.

Rubbadub
02-25-2008, 09:44 PM
What Few wants Austin to do during nationally televised games (nevermind when scouts are in the audience):

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x303/cm07photos/i-ar-hiding.jpg

TM27
02-25-2008, 09:46 PM
You see Daye on the floor tonight? Getting boxed out on the boards and picking up fouls left and right (some not justified, but thats another discussion).

There just wasn't a fit for him on the floor tonight.


Did you see everyone in a GU jersey tonight??????? If that is your explanation for his low minutes today then Bouldin should have only played 5 minutes. (lukily he started the second half and was able to score some points....wonder what Daye would do with that long of leash?)

john montana
02-25-2008, 10:00 PM
I don't get it either. Daye needs to be on the floor. Play him at the 3 or 4, but put him in the game.

CarolinaZagFan
02-25-2008, 10:09 PM
I love Daye as much as anyone, but he also had 3 fouls in those 7 minutes. Fouls have been a problem for him all year.

rawkmandale
02-25-2008, 10:22 PM
He is a FRESHMAN for crying out loud. Give him a chance to learn the fine points, and build his strength. He's not a prime time (meaning CONSISTENT, not SPECTACULAR - already does that) player yet, but will be soon enough.

Thank God for seniors and co-captians: Pargo, Kuso, Pendo.

zeeehjee
02-25-2008, 10:26 PM
I believe he got 14 minutes (Thats what ESPN says).

Nevtelen
02-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Daye just went out and made some bad decisions - picked up fouls, got burned on D, made offensive mistakes - just didn't look in sync tonight. I understand where you're coming from, but it just wasn't there tonight. I don't think 30 mins of PT would have changed it. That and Pendo was playing pretty well overall.

My own personal tinfoil-hat-crazy theory: I could be waaayy off base here, but I think Few does in some ways hold Daye to a higher standard possibly because he can/has to. Daye could go out there, play a bunch, kinda coast, still score a ton and not really be forced to fix the problems in his game.

In a lot of ways, this is kind of what happened with Ammo - he never learned to play D because he didn't ever have to. He was too valuable to take off the court no matter what he did. He will probably never be a great defender, but he could have been good/serviceable. IMO I think Few is sending the message to Daye that, yes, you're a stud, but if you don't learn to do the little things like shore up your D, fix your mistakes, you still won't get PT, so learn them. If he can get those things down well, he'll be that much of a better player down the road. I think Few is taking the long view with Daye.

Just my 2 cents.

rawkmandale
02-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Yeah, the ESPN minutes are more accurate. One of the other box scores had Pendo with 40 minutes (along with another player) and I'm pretty sure I saw the red head on the bench at times.

TM27
02-25-2008, 10:31 PM
I am not specifically speaking to tonight? I keep responding to posts within this thread because I am really baffled by this. Ausitn did have 3 fouls today, but 5 is the magical number. Let me break it down like this...
Austin currently averages the 7th most minutes on this team. So what this tells me is that Austin is the 7th man, yet despite averaging the 7th most minutes and being the 7th man on this team...his p/g averages compared to all of those above him (in half the time) are as follows:

Per game averages:
the 2nd most points
the 2nd most rebounds (tied for 2nd)
5th most in assists (tied for first when compared to those playing the 4 or 5)
the most blocks
6th most steals (but tied for 1st for those playing the 4 or 5)
second highest field goal percentage
highest free throw percentage
highest 3 point field goal

It doesnt add up! Austin should be on the floor long enough each night to foul out....

rawkmandale
02-25-2008, 10:35 PM
Gets beat on the defensive end - sorry, but that is the truth.

TM27
02-25-2008, 10:38 PM
Gets beat on the defensive end - sorry, but that is the truth.



Hmm okay...well I can see what you are saying. You are saying what I wrote in the beginning. The coaches are saying, "Austin you get beat so often on the d side of the ball that it does not make up for all the positives you bring to the O"? Very well may be?



BTW - Nevtelen I tend to agree! Good thoughts! Thanks!

ZagsGoZags
02-26-2008, 12:00 AM
I had to work tonight and did not get to see the first three quarters of the game. I noticed Austin did not get on the floor at all while I watched. I wanted to ask what he did that was unproductive, that got him so little PT tonight? I read the thread here, and nobody mentioned what the box scores said, namely, 3 turnovers. Three turnovers and three fouls sounds like he must have been having one of his roughest outings ever.

Birddog
02-26-2008, 05:49 AM
Nevtelen saw it like I did, Medzag said it succinctly
You see Daye on the floor tonight? Getting boxed out on the boards and picking up fouls left and right (some not justified, but thats another discussion).

There just wasn't a fit for him on the floor tonigh

His shot was off too, he was 1 for 4 and they weren't that close. His made three was dinger however. It just wasn't his night for whatever reason.

john montana
02-26-2008, 06:23 AM
He didn't get enough minutes.

tobizag
02-26-2008, 06:44 AM
I love Daye as much as anyone, but he also had 3 fouls in those 7 minutes. Fouls have been a problem for him all year.


while i agree that austin has had some foul problems this season, i would argue that last night he did not. the foul on the fast break was a patty mills part deaux (translation: austin didn't touch the kid) and the offensive fould that was called on austin was an absolute joke. few was immediately up off the bench screaming at the refs.

so really, in a fairly officiated game, the kid has 1 foul. everyone last night was getting stupid foul calls (matt and jeremy both had offensive fouls called against them that were ridiculous).

i think a better explanation of why he wasn't in the game is that it was very very physical, and he doesn't have the strength yet to compete in a game like that. kuso and others were doing a better job of boxing out and giving us a chance on the boards.

speed21
02-26-2008, 07:20 AM
Do we seriously need to talk about this after every game!?! Some of you ppl act like we lost the game. It was obvious Austin didn't have it last night....chill out! We just had a thread saying Few Rocks! Maybe we should start one Fire Few!

rennis
02-26-2008, 07:30 AM
Austin's minutes will go up or down depending on the match-ups and how well he plays. He wasn't playing well last night, and the matchups weren't right, so out he went. Quick fouls = pine time!

As for the notion that Gray will replace Pargo at the point next year, I've got to wonder what would make you think that? It's not like Pargo is giong to rotate over to the 2 in place of Bouldin...??

Pargo will be the starting PG until he graduates. At which time I'm going to host a candle light vigil, because I'm going to miss him more than any PG since Santangelo. I love that kid.

Rubbadub
02-26-2008, 07:42 AM
Rub is pretty confident that a senior Bouldin, a junior Gray, a sophomore Goodson, a sophomore Gibbs and who knows who else will do just fine managing the point after Pargo graduates.

scrooner
02-26-2008, 08:49 AM
There was a point in the 2nd half when Portland was down 2 and it was pretty obvious Ito was dribbling around the perimeter trying to set up a 3. You could even hear the crowd calling for it. Ito dribbles up to the top of the arc with Daye on him, then Daye turns around to look for someone else to cover, realizes he should be on Ito but then off goes the shot for an easy 3.

Zerogame
02-26-2008, 08:54 AM
I agree Speed. I'm a huge Daye fan, but last night he was out of step it seemed, and we have a bench to use on those nights. Mavbe he could have played through it and he needs that chance normally. But last night the game was too important not get the best (at the time) out on the floor.

Who wants to start the FIRE FEW! thread first? :o He's the coach, it has to be his fault.

CDC84
02-26-2008, 09:01 AM
In the 2nd half, we saw Downs get the nod over Steven Gray.

I just think these coaches like their depth and their ability to go with the hot hand. Some games Daye will have that hot hand, and in other games he won't. The same goes for most of the players.

Reborn
02-26-2008, 09:22 AM
This has been talked about a lot this year. Daye shares time with Pendo. Unfortunately for Daye, Pendo is playing GREAT right now. In fact, as good as anyone really. Daye did NOT play well last night. I could be a mental thing because Pendo IS playing more. It's called learning to sacrifice for the good of the team. There will be days Daye will get more playing time and he needs to be READY when his time comes.

Downs, on the other hand, is also playing GREAT right now, so it WILL take time away from Steven. That's the way it goes. From the way I see it right now, and especially last night, the best team on the floor was Pargo, Matt, Downs, Pendo and Josh. AMAZING. These guys all played together last year, and I think are ONCE AGAIN beginning to gel together (which may mean they've finally gotten over all the damage done by Josh's poor decisions last year). I really do see this team as the team that is going to take us where we all want to go. They really played together GREAT LAST NIGHT. These were the guys in at the end that, simply put, blew the game wide open. They reminded me (in the 2nd half last night) of the way they played against UNC and Texas last year. Matt was awesome in that stretch, pushing the ball up at full speed. First half, Pargo was walking the ball up, and that pace kills the Zags.

john montana
02-26-2008, 09:32 AM
I don't think it is a Pendo or Daye argument...play Daye at the 3, I don't care...just play him. And I for one hate the slippery slope argument...I think Daye should play more, so I must want to start a "Fire Few!" thread...give me a break. I dissagree with the minutes this year, is that not allowed? I guess if I'm against the war in Iraq I'm against our troops too?

I think Few has done an admirable job of managing his talent, but I think Daye should see more minutes, at the expense of Gray and to some degree Pendo. Daye will make mistakes, but our offense flows better when he is in the game. In my opinion, he's just too good to sit the pine. Find a way to get him on the court.

I still think our best overall lineup offensively is:

Pargo
Bouldin
Downs
Daye
Heytfelt

Plenty of room in my opinion for Pendo to get minutes, and Gray, but I'd go with this line up for long stretches. It gives us our best "mismatches."

TM27
02-26-2008, 10:02 AM
This place cracks me up! Raise your hand if you have played basketball???

I am not talking about last night! That is why I provided stats from an entire year....last night was an example of the short leash and lack of playing time. I am trying to spark a conversation about basketball. Daye's averages, in almost every category, are in the top 3 (even while averaging half the minutes), yet he doesn’t play as much as others? Why?

I tend to agree with nevtelen that Few is sending Daye a message, much like a mentor..."I am hard on you because I care, and you can be the best". But we cant even get to this level of detail....because half of you are giving explanations for why he didnt play last night (might have been my fault in the way I set up the thread...sorry) while the other half of you dribbled off your foot long ago with the "fire few" comments.

Please dont pull the "fire few" sh*t! If you dont have enough basketball knowledge to hang with the thread, then move along...because I am genuinely interested to hear what others thoughts are on this. I have my thoughts as to why Daye doesn’t play more, none of which include “fire few”, but I do know that others on here are closer to the program or have a better understanding of the game and may have their own assumptions, I am curious to hear these. Capesh?! Should I restate just for good measure, that just because I ask a general question about playing time, it does not mean that I hate Gonzaga, Spokane, and the entire US! It does not mean that I am a witch nor a communist.

Let me start over by asking this ….Austin’s averages are in the top 3 in every major statistical category, why does he not average more minutes? Discuss?

MedZag
02-26-2008, 10:25 AM
Let me start over by asking this ….Austin’s averages are in the top 3 in every major statistical category, why does he not average more minutes? Discuss?

It's well known Few favors seniority. Even Ammo didn't get as many minutes as he likely earned his freshman year. As long as our senior and co-captain Pendo is playing well (which he is) I just don't see Few cutting his minutes to give Austin more burn. And it's too late for Few to throw Austin into the 3. We're winning and everyone has established roles and I don't see him messing with that.

You can debate the semantics of it, but its the way Few has always run the program. He favors certain things over raw statistical production.

speed21
02-26-2008, 10:26 AM
Yes I have played basketball, one thing you have to realize is that stats aren't everything. This is a question that the coach's and only the coach's can answer....so seriously go ask them and quit making threads about this after every game!

cair3
02-26-2008, 10:31 AM
Few is thinking long when most of us are thinking short. Few knows Austin and his father both chose Few to coach Austin because he will help develop Austin's game not just use what he has to offer for two years then say thanks and good luck.

Last night however, I think it was just a trap game and when Daye did not come out breathing fire Few thought I better go with experience and just make sure we get out of here with a win. In that game our best offensive mismatch was with Pargo anyways and Daye did come in and contribute a punch at the right time as we started to break away. I look for Daye to come in and do work against St Clara and St Mary's, both teams dont have a player who can guard him but their size can really frustrate Pendo and Austin will be very comfotable killing them in front of our crowd.

TM27
02-26-2008, 10:32 AM
It's well known Few favors seniority. Even Ammo didn't get as many minutes as he likely earned his freshman year. As long as our senior and co-captain Pendo is playing well (which he is) I just don't see Few cutting his minutes to give Austin more burn. And it's too late for Few to throw Austin into the 3. We're winning and everyone has established roles and I don't see him messing with that.

You can debate the semantics of it, but its the way Few has always run the program. He favors certain things over raw statistical production.


I am trying to think back....help me.... have they been on the floor at the same time: Daye and Pendo. Also, for some reason I thought I have seen AD at the 3...in fact I may be senile because I have it in my head that although not his main position on this team, that he has seen time at the 3 many times this year?

And just for sh*ts and giggles....Do you all think he is a bigger matchup problem as an undersized 4 who can shoot from the outside and is quick, or as a tall 3 that can post up?

TM27
02-26-2008, 10:34 AM
Yes I have played basketball, one thing you have to realize is that stats aren't everything. This is a question that the coach's and only the coach's can answer....so seriously go ask them and quit making threads about this after every game!


Thanks for the insight! My first thread about this....I think! It just is something I cant figure out so I thought I would ask others. Sorry to piss on you by asking a question about Daye's playing time. You on the westside, lets get together for some ball?

Birddog
02-26-2008, 10:39 AM
What's missing from this conversation is what happened in practice last week. We don't know and never will know. IMO there is a reasonable probability that the minutes played last night were at least a partial reflection of what happened in practice prior to the game.

speed21
02-26-2008, 10:41 AM
Thanks! Sorry to piss on you by asking a question about Daye's playing time. You on the westside, lets get together for some ball?

Sorry I blew up, but it just gets frustrating that everyday after a game when I come on here the first thread I see is "Why is Daye not getting more minutes". The coach's are are still the only ones that can answer that tho. Unfortunetly I am not from the westside, otherwise I would love to play some ball.

MedZag
02-26-2008, 10:44 AM
I am trying to think back....help me.... have they been on the floor at the same time: Daye and Pendo. Also, for some reason I thought I have seen AD at the 3...in fact I may be senile because I have it in my head that although not his main position on this team, that he has seen time at the 3 many times this year?

And just for sh*ts and giggles....Do you all think he is a bigger matchup problem as an undersized 4 who can shoot from the outside and is quick, or as a tall 3 that can post up?

I think development wise its been good to have him at the 4 this year. I think he'll be a 3 in the league and thats where his individual game is maximized. But I think its better for this team to rotate him at the 4.

Our offense this year has really flourished when pushing the break and getting into the lane. It stagnates when we slow the tempo and run our offensive sets, because we lack a consistent post-scoring big man to run it through. Few loves running Pargo, Bouldin, and Gray/Downs together to keep the offensive steam up. Pargo's going to play every minute possible, there's no way you can possibly argue that. To get Austin time at the 3 Few would have to rotate Gray to split minutes with Bouldin and have Daye split time with Downs. I personally like the idea of this but (1) Few's not going to cut Matt's minutes. He considers him almost as indispensable as Jeremy. (2) Austin is better at creating his own shot than coming off screens and the 3 in our offense this year has been more about the latter rather than the former (3) Few likes Austin's length in the paint for rebounding purposes.

I think the reason people are jumping on you is because this has been debated ad nauseum the past 4 or 5 weeks, it has become blatantly apparent Few isn't going to change his methodologies by now, so talking/complaining about it becomes a dead horse issue.

TM27
02-26-2008, 10:48 AM
Sorry I blew up, but it just gets frustrating that everyday after a game when I come on here the first thread I see is "Why is Daye not getting more minutes". The coach's are are still the only ones that can answer that tho. Unfortunetly I am not from the westside, otherwise I would love to play some ball.

LOL! Your response to my question about why Austin doesnt play more....go ask the coaches. Okay? While i am at it...I am going to ask them if JP is going pro, if we are going to land Mr. Taylor and if so who wont have a scholorship next year, what recruits they really want in 09 and 10, why Bouldin struggles to get his against better defensive teams, and if Few is going to take any job in the next 10 years. Once they respond I will post it and hopefully a mod can sticky it to the top and none of us will ever need to post again! Now we are getting somewhere.

lothar98zag
02-26-2008, 10:49 AM
I am trying to think back....help me.... have they been on the floor at the same time: Daye and Pendo. Also, for some reason I thought I have seen AD at the 3...in fact I may be senile because I have it in my head that although not his main position on this team, that he has seen time at the 3 many times this year?

They have played together, but only in extreme cases, foul trouble, very odd match-ups, etc. But for the most part it's either Pendo or Daye. And I think the times they've been on the court together Daye has played the 4 and Pendo has played the 5 or 3 since he's a senior and probably knows what all 5 spots should be doing on every play.




Also, I think Nev and cair3's posts are spot on.

TM27
02-26-2008, 10:56 AM
I think development wise its been good to have him at the 4 this year. I think he'll be a 3 in the league and thats where his individual game is maximized. But I think its better for this team to rotate him at the 4.

Our offense this year has really flourished when pushing the break and getting into the lane. It stagnates when we slow the tempo and run our offensive sets, because we lack a consistent post-scoring big man to run it through. Few loves running Pargo, Bouldin, and Gray/Downs together to keep the offensive steam up. Pargo's going to play every minute possible, there's no way you can possibly argue that. To get Austin time at the 3 Few would have to rotate Gray to split minutes with Bouldin and have Daye split time with Downs. I personally like the idea of this but (1) Few's not going to cut Matt's minutes. He considers him almost as indispensable as Jeremy. (2) Austin is better at creating his own shot than coming off screens and the 3 in our offense this year has been more about the latter rather than the former (3) Few likes Austin's length in the paint for rebounding purposes.



These are the nuggets I was digging for....also thanks to Lothar, Cair, and nevtelen, john, and a couple others. I am going to leave this thread now because I think i am spending too much work time not working ;) Cmon dont lie many of you can say the same thing.

A couple things we can all agree on...it rains too much in Seattle, and that the Zags will be ready come Saturday. Go GU!

McZag
02-26-2008, 11:00 AM
Would it have mattered if Morrison averaged 7 minutes a game in '06 and the Zags still swept the conference? No. Why? Because winning is all that matters.

Would have the Zags beat Memphis, Tennessee, WSU etc. this year had Daye played 40 minutes? HIGHLY doubtful.

When the Zags start playing merely .500 ball, lose their ranking, and fail to make the dance, cry all you want about PT.

As long as they are in first place in the WCC and 22-6 don't worry about it.

Daye is a freshman-and I love his potential. But this team has been strugglng with maturity all year. And maturity shows itself in suddle ways; you usually can't find it on a stats sheet.

Trust the coaches, enjoy the record and look forward to seeing more of Daye in the year(s) to come.

ZagMania
02-26-2008, 11:01 AM
For the sake of discussion, do people think that not giving Daye starters minutes could hurt our ability to get other players of Daye's caliber? I mean, Bardo last night said that he thinks that Daye should be a preseason All-American candidate next season. How many times do hear that about a guy with so few minutes. Wouldn't this impact the thinking of other top flight recruits that are thinking about GU?

In a perfect world, the top 20 high school players would all want to go to a school like Gonzaga where they learn and grow as a player there first season before being thrust into the limelight. Realistically, with this approach it is going to be a tougher road to get these guys and a large reason why we've been able to keep our dominance over the rest of the WCC is by outrecruiting. Few's style of loyalty to his seniors, ect. in my mind can put a ceiling on our recruiting possibilities. However, do we even want recruits that don't buy into the GU approach? All interesting points of discussion.

MedZag
02-26-2008, 11:07 AM
For the sake of discussion, do people think that not giving Daye starters minutes could hurt our ability to get other players of Daye's caliber? I mean, Bardo last night said that he thinks that Daye should be a preseason All-American candidate next season. How many times do hear that about a guy with so few minutes. Wouldn't this impact the thinking of other top flight recruits that are thinking about GU?

In a perfect world, the top 20 high school players would all want to go to a school like Gonzaga where they learn and grow as a player there first season before being thrust into the limelight. Realistically, with this approach it is going to be a tougher road to get these guys and a large reason why we've been able to keep our dominance over the rest of the WCC is by outrecruiting. Few's style of loyalty to his seniors, ect. in my mind can put a ceiling on our recruiting possibilities. However, do we even want recruits that don't buy into the GU approach? All interesting points of discussion.

I think it comes down to what type of top tier players we want to go for. Some programs are known as factories prepping players for the NBA. Others are known for player development. We're a player development program - evidenced by all our "unknown" players who have done great things.

It was well documented that player development was the most important thing to Austin's father. And also the main reason he loved Gonzaga. We're not going to land the Kevin Durants and Michael Beasleys. Which I think is a good thing, but I dont think bringing Austin along slowly does anything to hamper getting players of his caliber. It may discourage one-and-done'rs, but they were never looking at GU to begin with.

If anything, if Austin blows up in the next year or two and has an Ammo type season, it'll only serve to bolster recruiting.

TM27
02-26-2008, 11:11 AM
For the sake of discussion, do people think that not giving Daye starters minutes could hurt our ability to get other players of Daye's caliber? I mean, Bardo last night said that he thinks that Daye should be a preseason All-American candidate next season. How many times do hear that about a guy with so few minutes. Wouldn't this impact the thinking of other top flight recruits that are thinking about GU?

In a perfect world, the top 20 high school players would all want to go to a school like Gonzaga where they learn and grow as a player there first season before being thrust into the limelight. Realistically, with this approach it is going to be a tougher road to get these guys and a large reason why we've been able to keep our dominance over the rest of the WCC is by outrecruiting. Few's style of loyalty to his seniors, ect. in my mind can put a ceiling on our recruiting possibilities. However, do we even want recruits that don't buy into the GU approach? All interesting points of discussion.

My thought is that Few's loyalty to his seniors is because of the complexity of the offensive sets...which is a compliment to Steven Gray and is one of my explanations as to why he starts and Austin doesnt (Steven it seems at times runs the offense better than some sophomores). But I digress, I think that a Freshman could start and play a lot...Stepp, Gray, 18 for Austin, etc. So no I dont think that Few's handling of Austin this year will negatively impact recruiting, because Few can point at Steven and say if you get it like he gets it (on both sides) than you will play.

jim77
02-26-2008, 11:15 AM
The coach has his reasons but, when you pick up 3 quick fouls you should sit. It all about matchups with Austin because of his size/strength. What if this game had gone down to the last minute and we needed a GREAT freethrow shooter to secure the win...you don't want him on the court with 4 fouls. Maybe few was saving his freethrow ace??? His fouls last night were not some of the wisest fouls (some questionable too) which come dance time will be deadly. Teach the kid NOW to be frugal with his resources and he'll be that much better come tourney time.

jim77
02-26-2008, 11:27 AM
For the sake of discussion, do people think that not giving Daye starters minutes could hurt our ability to get other players of Daye's caliber? I mean, Bardo last night said that he thinks that Daye should be a preseason All-American candidate next season. How many times do hear that about a guy with so few minutes. Wouldn't this impact the thinking of other top flight recruits that are thinking about GU?

In a perfect world, the top 20 high school players would all want to go to a school like Gonzaga where they learn and grow as a player there first season before being thrust into the limelight. Realistically, with this approach it is going to be a tougher road to get these guys and a large reason why we've been able to keep our dominance over the rest of the WCC is by outrecruiting. Few's style of loyalty to his seniors, ect. in my mind can put a ceiling on our recruiting possibilities. However, do we even want recruits that don't buy into the GU approach? All interesting points of discussion.

I don't think it hurts recruiting at all...at least not as bad as losing. Few has a GREAT track record of developing players. (which is probably why we got Daye) I believe another cog in the GU success that isn't mentioned much is HOW LONG we keep players. Ammo is the only guy I can think of that left early....it really helps chemistry when you keep players 4 years. You won't get that sometimes with five star guys...its good the way it is now. Kids want to play for winners more than anything. Daye will be a pro one day but, he isn't ready at this time....GU is a great fit for him.

ZagNut08
02-26-2008, 11:30 AM
I hope he is watching film from morrison at gonzaga. One of the things that made morrison great was his ability to drive and stop on a dime and go straight up with a shot instead of carrying his weight forward into a defender. This would help daye a great amount. He will be able to create separation, use his length and soft touch, and avoid offensive fouls/getting muscled by defender

S.U. Chieftain
02-26-2008, 11:37 AM
What's missing from this conversation is what happened in practice last week. We don't know and never will know. IMO there is a reasonable probability that the minutes played last night were at least a partial reflection of what happened in practice prior to the game.

As a former coach, I agree with Birddog. Some coaches will reward or punish players based on what they did at practice the week prior. If Daye isn't hustling or showing improvement on a key piece they're trying to teach at practice, then he'll be "punished" by not getting in until #7. A coach's job is to teach (and win) and this is a way to teach Daye about what's important. My guess is Gray shows more at practice than Daye.

cjm720
02-26-2008, 12:50 PM
This place cracks me up! Raise your hand if you have played basketball???

I am not talking about last night! That is why I provided stats from an entire year....last night was an example of the short leash and lack of playing time. I am trying to spark a conversation about basketball. Daye's averages, in almost every category, are in the top 3 (even while averaging half the minutes), yet he doesn’t play as much as others? Why?

I tend to agree with nevtelen that Few is sending Daye a message, much like a mentor..."I am hard on you because I care, and you can be the best". But we cant even get to this level of detail....because half of you are giving explanations for why he didnt play last night (might have been my fault in the way I set up the thread...sorry) while the other half of you dribbled off your foot long ago with the "fire few" comments.

Please dont pull the "fire few" sh*t! If you dont have enough basketball knowledge to hang with the thread, then move along...because I am genuinely interested to hear what others thoughts are on this. I have my thoughts as to why Daye doesn’t play more, none of which include “fire few”, but I do know that others on here are closer to the program or have a better understanding of the game and may have their own assumptions, I am curious to hear these. Capesh?! Should I restate just for good measure, that just because I ask a general question about playing time, it does not mean that I hate Gonzaga, Spokane, and the entire US! It does not mean that I am a witch nor a communist.

Let me start over by asking this ….Austin’s averages are in the top 3 in every major statistical category, why does he not average more minutes? Discuss?

Try checking out the search feature on this board - this is an old topic and your tone's really boring.

ZaggyStardust
02-26-2008, 01:05 PM
I think the reason people are jumping on you is because this has been debated ad nauseum the past 4 or 5 weeks, it has become blatantly apparent Few isn't going to change his methodologies by now, so talking/complaining about it becomes a dead horse issue.


DING DING DING, We have a winner!!!!

ZagsGoZags
02-26-2008, 01:41 PM
I disagree with Speed.
If people want to talk about Austin after every game, or any subject after any game, why not?
Who are the topic police?
If discussing Austin is not your thing, skip to the next thread.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-26-2008, 04:50 PM
There are lots of mouths to feed on this team as far as playing time goes and Daye should be on the bench when he doesn't play well. But one can't help but wonder if he isn't being held back a little. The guy is so talented that to not play half the game is a real question-raiser for me. He obviously wants to be a star who takes the big shot (ala Morrison) and that should be cultivated, IMO. His plus/minus with more minutes would benefit the team in most games. After all, he does block shots and get rebounds too. Just my opinion, but wow, this kid has talent.