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View Full Version : Flop....flop...flop



GSL-KID
02-25-2008, 09:34 PM
What's uglier

Doing the Flop

or

the Refs calling that crap ??

ebayzagfan
02-25-2008, 10:08 PM
I used to referee 5th grade games many years ago. I'm thinking that experience might qualify me for a spot as a WCC official. Where can I find an application?

MedZag
02-25-2008, 10:11 PM
http://www.rushprnews.com/press/wp-content/oscars.jpg

former1dog
02-25-2008, 10:16 PM
Honestly, the officiating in the WCC has got to be the worst in college basketball. So many calls, both ways, are just effed up. It is just unbelievable to me that the officiating is this poor, this consistently.

:mad:

The only thing I won't complain about is it being unfair to one team or another, they are bad for each team.

CDC84
02-25-2008, 11:04 PM
The charging call on Bouldin in the 1st half is the living, breathing example of the kind of charging call that should never be made in college basketball. Bouldin put up a layup that went in, but it didn't count because he drew contact with a Portland player who was standing right underneath the hoop. Not only did the defender not give Bouldin a place to land, but Matt didn't even create contact with him until after he released his shot. The ref that made that call basically bailed out a defense that was horribly beaten. Matt was in total control of his drive toward the hoop. I just think when players get that close the hoop and release their shot before they create contact that the refs need to hold their whistle. In fact, if I had it my way, I would assign a foul to the flopper underneath the basket if the shot is missed. The penalty would be for discouraging offensive rebounders from making a play out of fear that they might land on the flopper and hurt themselves.

Early on in the game several players on both sides collected some legit charging calls. For some reason, from that point forward, players started flopping left and right like they were actors. I realize that if the refs are making the calls that defenders are smart to do the acting, but as a basketball TV viewer, I hate seeing people flopping all over the place. It ruins the flow of the game and its beauty. It becomes a total joke.

ToreroStudent
02-25-2008, 11:07 PM
I think that we should ask the great Vlade Divac this very question!

TM27
02-25-2008, 11:16 PM
The charging call on Bouldin in the 1st half is the living, breathing example of the kind of charging call that should never be made in college basketball. Bouldin put up a layup that went in, but it didn't count because he drew contact with a Portland player who was standing right underneath the hoop. Not only did the defender not give Bouldin a place to land, but Matt didn't even create contact with him until after he released his shot. The ref that made that call basically bailed out a defense that was horribly beaten. Matt was in total control of his drive toward the hoop. I just think when players get that close the hoop and release their shot before they create contact that the refs need to hold their whistle. In fact, if I had it my way, I would assign a foul to the flopper underneath the basket if the shot is missed. The penalty would be for discouraging offensive rebounders from making a play out of fear that they might land on the flopper and hurt themselves.



Worst call I have seen since the last WCC or Pac 10 game, I watched. SERIOUSLY I dont know if it will take a broken ankle, or twisted knee or cracked skull, etc...but this is quickly turning into the biggest problem in college basketball. Refs are awarding a defensive player for undercutting a player 3 feet above them...and on another note (as you mentioned) the defensive player is being awarded for getting beat when they stand underneath the basket. Total BullSH*t whether it happens to GU, portland or the harlem globe trotters...this needs to be a point of emphasis in the off season. Someone is going to get hurt.

Did you know that flopping back in the day was first a warning and could actually result in a T? But now we have the Ginobilli's and Paulus's of the world turning this crap on every play. Oh yeah I fogot a 6ft 180 PG can knock 6'9" 250Tyler Hansbrough 12 feet out of bounds. Flopping is not hard to spot...start calling it.

Nevtelen
02-25-2008, 11:41 PM
Totally agree, CDC. Just painfull. As if it wasn't bad enough, once Portland got their umpteenth flop called, GU started to get annoyed and, in the second half, do it, too. Did they get any calls at all? No. Rediculous. If any little piddly contact is going to be called, okay - but call it both ways at least.

The officiating in that game reminded me of the officiating in the GAS earlier in the year. Just awful and totally unnecessarily taking a ton of the action out of the game for fear any little incidental contact would be called. That is exactly the type of officiating that kills WCC teams against BCS teams when it doesn't get called in a non-conf game. Ugh.

Seriously, has the WCC hired a bunch of new officials this year? They really seem worse than usual. And since Libbey has been the usual, you know it's been bad.

zagsfanforlife
02-25-2008, 11:50 PM
haha Vlade Divac! Great call. How about Greg Paulus??? I dont know how to post a link but youtube greg paulus and then the greatest flop in history will come up.

CDC84
02-25-2008, 11:51 PM
Another classic example of this was Pargo's famous tomahawk jam in the Western Kentucky game that wasn't allowed. Now on that play, Pargo's feet did graze the player underneath the hoop just before he jammed it, but it's the same thing....the refs allowing a defense that got beat to bail itself out.

There is a reason why a charging call is called a player CONTROL foul. The offensive player is supposed to be lacking control in his drive toward the hoop, resulting in him banging into or pushing off a defender that has established defensive position. Neither Bouldin or Pargo were out of control on those drives. They had a clear path to the basket until someone decided to stick their body underneath the hoop.

ToreroStudent
02-26-2008, 02:24 AM
haha Vlade Divac! Great call. How about Greg Paulus??? I dont know how to post a link but youtube greg paulus and then the greatest flop in history will come up.

I got you, and you're right. This is an EXCELLENT flop. Charging hands down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A

applezag
02-26-2008, 06:41 AM
I agree that Bouldin's charge was an awful call, but not for the same reasons stated here. I don't mind the rules as they are, if they would just call them that way. If a guy wants to stand under the basket all game long and try to take charges, I'm fine with that. He's giving up a ton of position and open shots away from that spot and you just have to make them without your momentum taking you into that guy. I think it's really stupid defense, but if that's what someone wants to do, fine. The driving offensive player just needs to adjust accordingly. Also, in that case they ought to call the foul post-shot and count the bucket.

In Bouldin's case, however, the defender was sliding into position well after Bouldin left the floor, which is the time when he needs to be set by. It was plain and simple a blocking foul. Not even close. We did get one or two of those in our favor later at least.

jbslicer
02-26-2008, 07:12 AM
College b-ball should put in the semi-circle in the key like the NBA uses.

tobizag
02-26-2008, 07:48 AM
College b-ball should put in the semi-circle in the key like the NBA uses.

:agreed:

took the words out of my mouth...it is an absolute necessity now.

zaguarxj
02-26-2008, 09:10 AM
WCC refs punish the Zags for being bigger and stronger than their opponents and reward other teams for being weak and falling down. Absolutely pathetic. And even with all the ridiculous calls, the Zags still had 2x as many free throws as Portland! They should have had 10x the #of free throws...

lothar98zag
02-26-2008, 09:19 AM
I got you, and you're right. This is an EXCELLENT flop. Charging hands down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A
:lmao:

VanZagar
02-26-2008, 09:20 AM
Just because a player flops does not mean he wasn't fouled. Sometimes a weaker player needs to call attention to the fact he is being overpowered. If he stands his ground for a no call he's letting the more powerful guy have his way with him. This is in no way an excuse for people like Vlade and Karl Malone.

TacomaZAG
02-26-2008, 09:26 AM
last night was pathetic. Does anyone know who the bald one of the Three Stooges was in that game, I'm surprised he doesn't have a scab on the back of his head after all the offensive fouls he called. I was sure Few was going to get T'eed up but after we got up big in the second half I guess there was no point.

I thought the players kept their cool pretty well after some of those calls, especially Jeremy after on particularly horrendous whistle.

I'm glad we shook off the rust in the second half...............

Go ZAGS

CDC84
02-26-2008, 09:40 AM
I have always favored an arc being put in place in college basketball, but that it shouldn't extend as far out as the NBA one. That's a bit overkill....The problem with the Bouldin call is that it was almost physically impossible for him to make an "adjustment" in mid-air to avoid contact with the player underneath the hoop. The defender needs to give the offensive player a place to land. Maybe if he dunked it he could've held on to the rim to avoid touching the player underneath the basket...but then he would get a technical foul for hanging on the rim.

gonza
02-26-2008, 09:41 AM
In hockey, when you try and draw a foul where there wasn't one, you get two minutes in the box for unsportsman-like conduct.
Hmmm ................

zag944
02-26-2008, 10:34 AM
I dont like how players get fouls called when they have a reptation as a dirt worker, but the refs don't extend the same knowledge to known floppers.

Watching the Sonics Spurs series a few years ago where Danny Fortson couldn't play 30 seconds without getting whistled, while Manu flopped all over and got every call.

FlagZag
02-26-2008, 10:50 AM
Let us not forget a great Flopper of our own. Dickau's body went one way, his hair the other and next thing you knew it was our ball. I prefer to think of Dan not as a Flopper but as an innovator. A player ahead of the curve. His most famous Flop was at the end of the season about 4 years ago when he drew a charge 10 seconds after the whistle blew. Without the slightest contact he flew backwards 8 feet and voila...2 free throws.

SintoZag
02-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Just to make sure everyone knows. The WCC refs also do Pac-10 games, they don't work for the league. We basically have the same refs as teh Pac_10 does.

mnzag24
02-26-2008, 10:54 AM
when Pendo had a pretty obvious flop that the refs didn't call, and then he got up and looked at the ref like WTF? the play resulted in a bucket for portland. made me laugh harder than anything else i've seen on the court all year.

lothar98zag
02-26-2008, 11:32 AM
when Pendo had a pretty obvious flop that the refs didn't call, and then he got up and looked at the ref like WTF? the play resulted in a bucket for portland. made me laugh harder than anything else i've seen on the court all year.
That play immediately followed a Pilot flop that did get called. Pendo (& I) was basically thinking "You called it down there when the guy didn't even get touched and I just got run over for nothing, wtf!"

jim77
02-26-2008, 12:53 PM
I got you, and you're right. This is an EXCELLENT flop. Charging hands down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPBJ_6y_5A

That was hillarious! Looks like some "Weekend at bernies" film footage!

lothar98zag
02-26-2008, 12:58 PM
Let us not forget a great Flopper of our own. Dickau's body went one way, his hair the other and next thing you knew it was our ball. I prefer to think of Dan not as a Flopper but as an innovator. A player ahead of the curve. His most famous Flop was at the end of the season about 4 years ago when he drew a charge 10 seconds after the whistle blew. Without the slightest contact he flew backwards 8 feet and voila...2 free throws.
:pray: :pray:
Someone needs to get the clip on youtube of DD flopping vs Pep - in the WCC tourney, I think. It's probably the play mentioned above. He fell like he was shot by a sniper and I think it drew a T...

LynetteG
02-26-2008, 03:23 PM
found this video while looking at other flop videos. its Kobe dropping another player then dishing off to Ronny for the slam!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKSCc3MyvA&feature=related

GonzagaGurl08
02-26-2008, 05:20 PM
That play immediately followed a Pilot flop that did get called. Pendo (& I) was basically thinking "You called it down there when the guy didn't even get touched and I just got run over for nothing, wtf!"

I was thinking the same thing lothar. If they are going to call those flops, at least they could call them consistently.